From what the wiki says the Lynx can only be a suicide rocket - seeing how defenseless the t9 is.
T9 needs more cargo space
- Thread starter J.R.Ehman
- Start date
From what the wiki says the Lynx can only be a suicide rocket - seeing how defenseless the t9 is.
I really like the idea of bulk freighters having external cargo containers and I miss the Lynx a lot. It along with Long Range Cruisers added variety near stations. Plus there were those Lifters which hauled goods from the stations to the bulk carriers and back. Miss those too.
Star Citizen has a similar concept with the "Hull" series ships.
Because you don't have a little extra (T9 outfitted for trade is 92 million, versus 220 for the conda). You invest in a T9 because when used as a trader it gets enough credits to afford a bigger better ship more quickly. It is really only since long range hauling/smuggling came along that you can skip it straight to a bigger ship because you only have to do a handful of runs in an asp to afford an anaconda. For that reason you get threads like this where people don't understand the T9's place.
Threads used to be can I cope with how bad a T9 is until I can afford an anaconda or should I just stay in the python.
Another reason to re-balance credit earning versus cost.
The problem is: This type of ship is basically unable to defend itself ( Giant blind spots caused by cargo containers ). Which is fine in SC because you will be abled to pay other players to defend you.
It would be just useless in elite: It would get interdicted by anacondas/vettes/cutters ( even NPCs ) and get destroyed in seconds.
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Augh. My brain trembles.
It's like people don't even read the threads they post in these days.
I will try to repeat myself, yet again, using different words this time: The T-series' advantage is the most raw cargo space for the least amount of credit investment.
And I can confidently say I'm an expect on the matter, seeing as I bought, owned, flew, and successfully used all of the T-series ships for trading for exactly that reason!
So please stop making me repeat myself over and over!
See, these guys get it!
...Because you might not have that little extra money. That's kind of the whole point I've been hammering over and over and over again.
Why pay that little extra if you can save up for a bigger cargo ship?
Yes, when you reach the Type 9, that question goes away and becomes merely: "Alright, time to save up for Anaconda-tier ships" - and that's an issue of a lack of endgame ship variety, where there's pretty much just the Anaconda, plus the two grind-locked Imperial and Federal ships.
That doesn't mean the T-series are useless or pointless in the slightest. Going with the T-series will get you to Anaconda-tier faster than any other ships in the game (if we're ignoring the absurd Ceos/Sothis exploitation).
...Yeah. And the same principle applies to Elite. The T-series allows you to get higher cargo capacity for lower investment costs.
I disagree about Engineers, but it's another topic I could go on and on about....
Eh, if the price continues to be as prohibitive as I've been seeing, think again....(which I sincerely hope they reconsider and change)
Well no-duh.
The fact is the Type 9 is and always has been worse than the Anaconda, though if you focus purely upon cargo-hauling capabilities, it is still on-par.
And it's also much cheaper than the Anaconda. Because it's not meant to have comparable parity with the Anaconda. It is distinctly of a lower 'tier'.
That all...should make perfect sense. And I must admit I'm starting to feel at my wit's end.
That's basically saying that you're using the Type-9 as a stepping stone. You invest in it, make a couple of runs, then liquidate it and with the combined funds you buy the better ship. That's not a long term investment.
Well my opinion is that the Type-9's place should not be just a stepping stone. I get it that you progress through ships in this game, and the Sidewinder and the lot will eventually be outclassed by others, but I feel that at least the larger ships should have a niche where they would get continuous usage. What's the point of having 30 ships when in the end you just need to use 2-3 for specialized roles (trader, explorer, fighter, miner etc.)? The Type-9 can't get continuous usage because anything it can do, another ship does better. I want to have an in-game reason, other that flavor, to use a Type-9 even when I'm a billionaire.
I voted 'no' *looks sheepish*
The T9 was a game changer for me with its 500T cargo capacity. You just need to find a good trade route and the credits roll in.
T9 already has more cargo capacity than the conda yet is much cheaper.
As a trader it is second only to the cutter over an A-B-A route once the thrusters and FSD are upgraded. So 500T is fine.
The T9 was a game changer for me with its 500T cargo capacity. You just need to find a good trade route and the credits roll in.
T9 already has more cargo capacity than the conda yet is much cheaper.
As a trader it is second only to the cutter over an A-B-A route once the thrusters and FSD are upgraded. So 500T is fine.
It doesn't work like that in elite. If I would have ability to hire npcs to haul things for me i would give them T9, but I can't. From T series I used only T6 for a week ( 1.0, so NPCs weren't any danger ). I was thinking about T7 and then realized that I can have clipper for just a bit more: More cargo, shields ( T7 doesn't have shields, it has paper cover ), amazing speed. Then i've never traded again so I don't know how bad/good T9 is, though from friends and raw data I would assume that it's worthless. T9 that has chance to survive NPC attack cost just about 10-30kk less than a conda. And remember that it takes time and effort to outfit ship and you lose about 15% by selling it. It's just NOT WORTH IT.
I think we need a "T10" to fulfill the roll you think a T9 should be filling. I don't think the T9 was designed to be it.
Ultimately it always comes down to what you enjoy though. Play long enough and you can afford anything. I have the big 3 and I still fly my T9 sometimes. I like it because it is so bad and really feels like big ship. Another reason I like it is because if I am interdicted, there really is a chance I won't get away. I only fly my big ships if I have a particular job to do that suits them. If I'm just pottering I'll be in a cobra, asp or clipper.
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Just yesterday I took out a T7 to see if what you're saying is true or not. I can tell you it is not true. I did multiple runs loaded with cargo out to Maia for the CG. I had many interdictions. Unmodified I easily got away from any NPC. Sure it is weak but I had no problems getting away. Clipper does somewhat invalidate the T7 on price but it is rank locked.
I'll be trying out my T9 again in a few days, but it was always a safer bet than the T7 and I don't see that being any different. My trade fit T9 costs 90 million and my conda costs 220, a big difference.
With some defensive engineer's mods I would say both ships are totally viable.
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but
Exactly. How would you possibly know "how it works in Elite" if you never actually did it yourself?
I actually did it myself using those ships.
And it's not "10k-30k" less, you're talking millions here.
You're clearly the sort who's exploited Robigo/Ceos/Sothis to get your funds built up....
Every Lakonn T-series cargo ship was worth its weight in gold for me (quite literally with some routes) several times over, because it allowed me to make money much sooner than would have been possible otherwise short of abusing the aforementioned smuggling exploits.
Again, please stop making me repeat myself. I *lived* with these ships, I made my way in Elite with these ships to where I am now. I know what I'm talking about.
@Weps:
While I bear no grudge towards having a love affair for the Type 9, the facts are there for us to see when it comes to answering the question of whether it's the "endgame" ship you want it to be. And it flatly is not.
There are, however many things you can do with a Type 9 - if it can carry fighters (I honestly don't know if it can or can't yet), it could be neat to make it a thickly armored mothership for a combat fighter in a combat zone.
Or you could use it to go mining, or exploring, or become a Fuel Rat - it's whatever you want to do with the thing.
But the fact is, to try and make it into an "endgame"-tier trading ship would be to change it into an entirely new ship from what it's been up to this day, and I just don't see that happening when the spot it carries is already quite comfortable.
I did it, I just stopped because it was boring. While you were PRINTING money I was exploring galaxy and killing thousands of pirates.
And no, I didn't exploited my way to big ships.
I was flying frakking asp for MONTHS while my friends had pythons/T9/anacondas because few days after launch there was exploit that was WAY worse than sothis (cloning cargo, people got billions in a DAY ).
It took me 6 months total to get exploration anaconda (almost completely from bounty hunting and community goals), then 2 months of exploring to get it combatfitted. And also I FOUND Sothis. I was first one to do those runs, I did not told anyone because I KNEW that it would break game economy. And it was exactly what happened when somebody else found it. I did like 2-3 runs, Then i realized that it's boring and too OP and never came back to sothis again. Look at my god damm ranks, do you think somebody with deadly and exploration elite need sothis to get big ships?
T9 is just a big TARGET. Unless your combat rank is something like "novice" or "competent" you're going to get interdicted and destroyed every time you enter SuperCruise.
And with current credit farming META ( sothis ) you're going to get enough credits for "big 3" trader in no time. Then just farm rank ( if you can stand the boredom, I wanted to smash my head into wall after 1h ) and get cutter. Then A-B-A trading ( using routes form internet, of course! ) and you've got basically unlimited budget.
Though beta seem to indicate that LRS is going to get nerfed. This might change things around and MAYBE make T9 worth using. Though only with rng-enhanced shields.
Almost entirely agree with you, as I too progressed and lived with Lakon traders (T6 --> T7 --> Space Cow) for quite some time, except one notable distinction - the categorization of long range delivery missions (legal or smuggling from bubble exterior to bubble interior such as Robigo / Sothis / Ceos) as 'exploit'.
Still own the T9 aka Space Cow just for the nostalgia and do some trucking runs now and then for the fun of it rather than the profit.
For ~3 weeks after Robigo long range delivery/smuggling missions launched, it was indeed an exploit - by some, not all - players. Not because the missions were high paying (FD set that). Not because the highest paying missions such as smuggling were available in high frequency (FD set that). Nor mode switching which FD has explicitly responded is not an exploit by their definition.
But because for ~3 weeks it was possible to take advantage of what FD stated was not intended design by accepting unlimited stacked missions because at that time mission cargo was not tagged as unique, and some players would accept essentially unlimited missions by dumping the mission cargo given at Robigo, stack huge # of missions, and then rebuy the easy to acquire cargo at delivery end. (e.g. exploit 'zero volume' deliveries that quickly shot to youtube fame)
This was and is the only 'exploit' I would concede was clearly not intended nor desired by FD, which they admitted and quickly fixed - along with rebalancing over several iterations after that first ~3 weeks of free for all -> of fixes to frequency in which smuggling missions appeared, adding a cap to total # of missions which could be taken, rebalancing mission cargo to take significantly more mass, and making mission cargo tagged as unique such that replacing it was not possible by dumping and rebuying same name cargo.
Any and all participation in long range profits earned after that post ~3 week correction is entirely as designed and intended by FD. Whether you believe the scale or balance of other activities in profit earning potential should be raised is a legitimate point (although somewhat case of merely moving goal posts because then an explorer could argue his activity isn't equal to mining by any close measure, nor the miner who says bulk trading is far superior, etc ad nauseum).
But as specifically corrected and pointed out by FD, these missions are now working as intended and somewhat overkill since cap to # of maximum mission is redundant with rebalanced cargo mass.
The stain to legitimate use of long range hauling to make profits is that people still call today an 'exploit', what was merely a ~3 week anomaly / aberration that was very quickly patched by FD.
T9 would need jump range buff too ( I can't imagine trading with 1000T cargo and 4LY jump range ), but outside that it's a good idea.
Why not use the Type-9 instead? Ships are associated with development time and cost, and I think a lot went into the Type-9. Why let it go to waste? By the time they get to release "the next big trader" more and more people would be over the point where they can't afford it and jump directly to the bigger one. Think of it this way: if a player can afford the Type-10 or the Panther Clipper or whatever's next, and we also get the spacelegs of our dreams with ultra-detailed interiors, do you think he will buy the Type-9 just to experience the double deck and the aft balcony and all the nooks and crannies of its insides?
I'm not so much wishing for the Type-9 to become the ultimate trader as I am to see it filling a niche in the endgame. Everything you mentioned (fighters, mining, refueling) could probably be done better with a Conda. Also, one thing to remember with the question of cargo space is that cargo is a double edged sword. You have to trade cargo space for defences (in the form of shields, banks or HRPs).
So when I'm thinking about extra space for the Type-9, I'm actually thinking about making it a little tougher. Even with specialized cargo modules it would mean that I can free up some internals for a better shield or some HRPs. I don't think that changes the purpose of the ship at all, not with all the recent changes to the game's power level and AI presence. After all, I'm not asking for better hardpoints than those laughable mediums, or a speed increase to what is otherwise *the slowest ship in the game*.
Cant be, the Anaconda has S6 FSD and so has the T-9.
By that logic the T-9 should have a greater mass lock but it has HALF that of the Conda.
Add the fact that the Conda is a MEDIUM ship while the T-9 is a LARGE, and still has HALF the mass lock ability.
FD said while they don't regard it as an exploit. Mode switching is not intended game play and they'd like to prevent it at some future point. So I would say it is not entirely as intended by FD.
You could sell the cargo and buy back at destination for the full duration of 1.4 and 2.0 AFAIK. Only in 2.1 did that make it mission specific.
Have you seen the popular ship size comparison video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x08skupb8cc
Mass could be argued because it would depend on what alloys or armor the anaconda has vs T9, but in terms of raw size, both are clearly roughly same tier. Sure doesn't look like medium v large in the ship scale department.
Well, since they have given the T-9 a 1000 tonne weight it seems to be LARGE and it could be like the Clipper - the WIDTH of the T-9 is what makes it LARGE.
Complete .. A selection of cmdrs are incapable of defending themselves in a lakon, the issue is not the ship. The Anaconda & Cutter simply gives cmdrs more room to make mistakes. 6A with a quad booster setup (unengineered) will give you 540mj of shields, that's enough to selectively engage in PvP, NPC's (any rank) are a complete non issue.