Telepresence Crewmembers = Rescue missions are Out

[Ziljan]

Well physically walking around on the friends ship, and all destinations they land at (including FPS if that comes) could be a pretty big incentive for physically boarding a ship, if telepresent players remain firmly rooted to their seat.

As Erimus pointed out, this is an aesthetic benefit. Except in the case where being present would offer gameplay, like maybe fighting off a pirate boarding party? But NPCs would have to get a LOT more competent before this kind gameplay would be possible.

Looking forward to what Frontier has to say about SRVs and multicrew. One of the benefits of multicrew that I envisioned was coordinated base assaults from land and sky. But we've had no word yet on SRV and multicrew, and traditionally the SRV didn't have a telepresence tether. If such a thing will still exist in 2.3?

 

[Kayweg]

One of the largest hurdles the game seems to face, both in terms of repetitive gameplay, the travel times and all other mundane tasks seems to be due to the size of the Elite galaxy itself. Based on the type of game mechanics and gameplay we get, it always seems to me that Frontier find the galaxy to be a challenge to integrate gameplay into. This is strange to me, because the galaxy is Elite's greatest asset.

I'm not sure what the future of the game will bring, but I totally agree that more and more Elite feels like a set of disjointed mini-games. I don't feel this is a problem with telepresense (which I feel is kinda essential at this point), but, as you point out, it's more of a problem with how Frontier have approached the game.

I agree.
Stated this a few times already in other discussions.
While, clearly, the enormous game world (galaxy) is one of the(if not the) greatest assets of ED, it's also one of it's greatest problems.
And at times like this, with multicrew imminent, that becomes ever more apparent.
It won't be the last time either, i suspect.
Sometimes i feel "less could have been more".

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Did I miss something? In reading the Dev update post yesterday, the OP doesn't seem to mention teleprecencse at all - it just talks about you instantly "logging out and logging in" to the new ship.

Indeed, Teleprecence explanation doesn't make any sense if they are addding an Avatar creation to the game (in which presumably your body will be the same one as in your own ship).

More like, they are just admitting straight up that this is for game play reasons and you just have to live with it. It's kind of like CQC where you are effectively logging into a different game.

I'm not commenting on whether I like this or not yet - just more asking wherre FD confirmed it was a TP mechanism?

Could just be a misuse of the word here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/326211-2-3-Dev-Update?p=5090434&viewfull=1#post5090434

Hey Rax! I've seen it... it's awesome. I like the telepresence aspect of it. It's all a lot of fun.

Personally I feel some people are getting hung up on the word. Bottom line is whether we use that word or not, makes no difference to the gameplay mechanic.

 

[Ziljan]

Did I miss something? In reading the Dev update post yesterday, the OP doesn't seem to mention teleprecencse at all - it just talks about you instantly "logging out and logging in" to the new ship.

Indeed, Teleprecence explanation doesn't make any sense if they are addding an Avatar creation to the game (in which presumably your body will be the same one as in your own ship).

More like, they are just admitting straight up that this is for game play reasons and you just have to live with it. It's kind of like CQC where you are effectively logging into a different game.

I'm not commenting on whether I like this or not yet - just more asking wherre FD confirmed it was a TP mechanism?

Confirmed as telepresence, and yes it makes zero sense to have an avatar face on an empty telepresence seat. Maybe there is a holographic projection of your pilot? Complete with superfluous space suit? lol.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

As Erimus pointed out, this is an aesthetic benefit. Except in the case where being present would offer gameplay, like maybe fighting off a pirate boarding party? But NPCs would have to get a LOT more competent before this kind gameplay would be possible.

Looking forward to what Frontier has to say about SRVs and multicrew. One of the benefits of multicrew that I envisioned was coordinated base assaults from land and sky. But we've had no word yet on SRV and multicrew, and traditionally the SRV didn't have a telepresence tether. If such a thing will still exist in 2.3?

I too really hope a crew can operate a fighter, main ship and SRV from a single ship. Lots of fantastic opportunities there.

 

[Goose4291]

I think people are putting the cart before the horse a little, and that telepresence is just the first stage of multicrew. Once we get full on spacelegs there should hopefully be a lot more dynamic gameplay options, which could include rescue missions and all types of other fun things.

Its all well and good bolting that sort of complexity on at a later stage, but all thats going to lead to is "this docking at a station, unloading my cargo and visiting the black market contacg takes me 20 minutes. Its affecting my cr/hr. Frontier, plz nerf" type threads and complaints.

 

[Soon(TM)]

I think people are putting the cart before the horse a little, and that telepresence is just the first stage of multicrew. Once we get full on spacelegs there should hopefully be a lot more dynamic gameplay options, which could include rescue missions and all types of other fun things.

So this telepresence thing, when someone else is in my ship with me, will I be able to see them in a pilots chair or will they be a blue star wars style hologram or will it just be a floating head?

 

[c00ky1970]

I think we should just stop trying to "lore"-ify how crew gets onto a ship.

Its not really telepresence its just gameplay function.

If you focus to much on that, then all the "muh immershun" crew get all jangly and rabid, then all the anti-immershun crew get jangly and rabid and we end up with pages and pages of dross on the forums to wade through.

You get crew on a ship, they are stuck to their seats and can't move, they appear and disappear like ships do when the log in or log off, get over it and enjoy the game!

 

[Soon(TM)]

Its all well and good bolting that sort of complexity on at a later stage, but all thats going to lead to is "this docking at a station, unloading my cargo and visiting the black market contacg takes me 20 minutes. Its affecting my cr/hr. Frontier, plz nerf" type threads and complaints.

I don't fully agree with this, ED in its current state doesn't offer the immersive adventure we all wanted. Due to the grind the game requires in order to progress to better ships, and let's face it, getting bigger ships is really the only real progression mechanic in the game, and as such it has moulded many players into the CR per hour mentality.

If and when FD change the game to be more fun to explore and experience, then the CR per hour thing becomes mute, the game then becomes Fun to play and experience rather than a race for credits.

 

[CMDR Aengus]

I really do feel like I've walked into ED RPG tabletop game and the GM has forgotten all his campaign notes and is just totally making s**t up on the fly...
... and not letting anyone read his one copy of the rules.

Still... MULTICREW!

 

[Ziljan]

So this telepresence thing, when someone else is in my ship with me, will I be able to see them in a pilots chair or will they be a blue star wars style hologram or will it just be a floating head?

We will see. My bet is that it will be a realistic hologram without the glowing blue fringe. The Billion CR question though is: will the hologram be allowed to walk around the ship? Bonus questions: Or pick up a coffee pot?

 

[CmdrJacks]

One of the things I've always looked forward to in this game was boarding other ships for shennanigans (sabotage, theft, salvage). I recall DBOBE talking about it during the kickstarter videos. I don't think it is necessarily ruled out, but it does seem to be getting less and less likely.

 

[Goose4291]

We will see. My bet is that it will be a realistic hologram without the glowing blue fringe. The Billion CR question though is: will the hologram be allowed to walk around the ship? Bonus questions: Or pick up a coffee pot?

 

[Ziljan]

One of the things I've always looked forward to in this game was boarding other ships for shennanigans (sabotage, theft, salvage). I recall DBOBE talking about it during the kickstarter videos. I don't think it is necessarily ruled out, but it does seem to be getting less and less likely.

Exactly. Frontier is effectively ruling out all kinds of future dev diary gameplay with a sweeping implementation of telepresence. They may end up handwaving this away with cyborg telepresence bots. And even though they said we'd never have clones or become ressurection ship cylons, that's pretty much exactly where we are headed

 

[wstephenson]

We will see. My bet is that it will be a realistic hologram without the glowing blue fringe. The Billion CR question though is: will the hologram be allowed to walk around the ship? Bonus questions: Or pick up a coffee pot?

Good example of a coop multicrew implementation on a WWII submarine game here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi9NqGAuiM8

I'm voting for Red Dwarf style H badges though.

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Confirmed as telepresence, and yes it makes zero sense to have an avatar face on an empty telepresence seat. Maybe there is a holographic projection of your pilot? Complete with superfluous space suit? lol.

I'm sure that cosmetic microtransactions will allow Helms to skin their crewmembers' holograms any way they desire.

GUNNER: Helm, is there something you want from me?

HELM: Umm no, why?

GUNNER: It's just you're staring at me again. Watch out for those rings...

<EMERGENCY STOP>

GUNNER: Helm!!!

HELM: Sorry, I bought the naturist skins that FD put up on the shop last night and equipped them on all my telepresence seats in Livery.

GUNNER: <disconnects>

 

[Retrograde]

I assume we are telepresencing into bodies (or holograms that look exactly like bodies), not just various controls. All the concept art indicates that we will be able to see each other. And we know that there are telepresenced bodies controlling the fighters.

So I assume these bodies will be able to participate in all on-foot gameplay when that eventually arrives. Making the distinction between bodies locked into chairs and bodies that can get up and walk around seems weird and unnecessary to me.

In another post I tried to come up with some restrictions, so it doesn't become the default travel option everywhere:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...s-station-teleportation?p=5096249#post5096249

 

[Flavourless]

I've always wondered why in 34th century people actually need to do anything at all. Sure, the Elite lore talks about a ban on AI, but as Michael Brookes has pointed out before, that is really a ban on Artificial Life / Artificial Consciousnes. In that context then the AI we use today is better described as Virtual Intelligence, as we use that in today's technology to automate all manner of tasks, right up to and including the automated flying of vehicles and other complex tasks.

It's not much of a stretch to think that in 1400 years VI would have extended to the ability to do pretty much any human task. Which really begs the questions, why do we even need pilots at all? Why isn't the entire galaxy automated?

This is something people like Elon Musk are already envisioning for our present age. So why is it not there for the far future?

Firstly of course, because it would mean there would be no game - and the Elite universe wouldn't require us to do anything. Secondly, because with the wave of a hand, and the penning of some lore, it can all be explained away.

The primary issue about telepresense from a gameplay perspective is the distance. Sure VR is great, maybe even within a solar system if you are prepared to dumb down. But over thousands of light years? You don't really buy it do you?

In the end, if we look too closely it all starts to fall apart. Telepresense isn't the only loose thread in the tapestry used to explain away game concessions. Personally, I feel these concessions are a lot more acceptable in a game, than they are in a book or movie.

Why? In a book or movie you are passive so its easier to suspend disbelief. Playing a game is interactive so the inconsistencies and twaddle hit you squarely in the face.

...I cannot imaging that Frontier haven't thought this through...

Ant, I do not believe you are so unimaginative. It doesn't require a great leap.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Exactly. Frontier is effectively ruling out all kinds of future dev diary gameplay with a sweeping implementation of telepresence. They may end up handwaving this away with cyborg telepresence bots. And even though they said we'd never have clones or become ressurection ship cylons, that's pretty much exactly where we are headed

I really don't see how Frontier are ruling out that type of future gameplay?

It all depends on the limitations of "telepresence" vs "physically boarding the ship". And seeing as we don't have legs yet, we have no way to compare.

I agree there is a trend towards game simplification, but I don't feel telepresence is a part of that.

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The primary issue about telepresense from a gameplay perspective is the distance. Sure VR is great, maybe even within a solar system if you are prepared to dumb down. But over thousands of light years? You don't really buy it do you?


Why? In a book or movie you are passive so its easier to suspend disbelief. Playing a game is interactive so the inconsistencies and twaddle hit you squarely in the face.


Ant, I do not believe you are so unimaginative. It doesn't require a great leap.

I want to be able to fly with a friend that is 50k Ly away. I really don't care how Frontier explain it.

People are getting hung up on a word - I find that amazing.

 

[Suitcase]

Can't we all just be happy that we've got Multicrew and other cool features?

Senseless arguing about... bloody Telepresence and immersion makes me want to pull my hair out. The fact that there are people suggesting that there be a countdown timer for the transfer of crew (oh boy I sure love staring at timers!), or paying potentially millions of credits to meet up with friend to play (A VIDEOGAME) with him, is absolutely ridiculous.

How can one argue about immersion when we're instantly teleported back, across possibly thousands of lightyears, on destruction of our ship? (And don't give me that Micro FSD/Hemlock suit ); or the destruction of our SRV, which does not use "Telepresence" technology; yet we're still able to survive?

For that matter, on the topic of immersion, how am I able to magically rub ores together (that I had to shoot at to collect), to repair, rearm and refuel my SRV?

I get it. You like Elite. So do I, and it does a good job of immersing you in the game. But when you put that above gameplay, and above friends trying to enjoy the game together, you ruin the experience.

It's ridiculous that the forum is so ablaze with arguments about this gameplay feature. Mind-boggling.