tester needs for standard beta

kb_Nomad

kb_Nomad
As a player/tester.

Insights:
At start what each player/tester starts with is a Sidewinder and 1,000 credits.
We have not had any concerns about fuel use yet.
What has happened with market in the past we all saw.
Just a few ship choices at any level.
Player choices for making income are limited.
The ‘grind’ to get to a point to really start testing new/different items is too steep.

Concerns:
We have about 13,000 – 15,000 players/testers now.
Standard beta will drop what 30,000 to 50,000 more players/testers.
We have 8 systems now that ‘had’ to be rebalanced market wise.
We had to have a new small hauler added to ‘try’ to keep testers testing.
13K + 50K = 63K that may be a close number of player/testers in August.
From what I gather everyone will start standard beta in one (1) system.

Analysis:
Will fuel use start?

Will we start with the minimum needed 40 Systems or will the markets be set back and we will have 120+ systems to allow market analysis and exploring?

Will we have more choices (below the anaconda) of starting ship and/or credits to buy ship/weapons/cargo as we feel is correct for our goal?

Discuss:
What do the players/testers feel would really allow us to make this a game we could play for years to come?

Thanks for your time in this matter.
KB
 

ddrooster

D
well id like a custom bobble head at about 10 Credits ( my average return for a trade)other than that im cool as it is a few more systems for me to crash in a few more ships to dream about
but im hardly yer hard core gamer
regards
dave
 

Crudzilla

Crudzilla
"Tester needs" is an oxymoron. A tester tests what he is given to test.

Insights: Everyone now flying an Anaconda started with 1000 credits. Including myself who started at PB. In beta as in full release there will be people who progress faster than others and those who whine that progress is too slow regardless of the pace.

Concerns: Frontier might take the whining of lazy, entitled players seriously and blow their load in beta rather than holding back the good stuff for the full game, or worse balance the game to give them everything they want right off the bat. (this does not actually concern me as I think Frontier has a good handle on what they are after and are only swayed to a very limited degree by community input)

Analysis: The Hauler was added to give a new toy to play with. Not in an effort to "keep people testing". Frontier rightly don't give a toss whether "testers" like the OP continue to play the game during beta. Real testers don't complain about progression. Real testers don't progress, they sit in booth endlessly grinding away at inane parts of the game in an attempt to break it and then file reports when they do. You are network traffic...

Discuss: Frontier have so far done a stand up job of designing the game and providing beta builds to test the network and keep fans engaged. They are professional game designers and should not take the misguided, rank amateur opinions of the lazier portion of their player base too seriously. People who feel that they should be provided with "what they feel is correct for their goal" during beta testing are not really testing and should just wait for the full content release with final game.

You're welcome for my time in this matter.
 
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EidLeWeise

EidLeWeise
Crudzilla said:
"Tester needs" is an oxymoron. A tester tests what he is given to test.

Insights: Everyone now flying an Anaconda started with 1000 credits. Including myself who started at PB. In beta as in full release there will be people who progress faster than others and those who whine that progress is too slow regardless of the pace.

Concerns: Frontier might take the whining of lazy, entitled players seriously and blow their load in beta rather than holding back the good stuff for the full game, or worse balance the game to give them everything they want right off the bat. (this does not actually concern me as I think Frontier has a good handle on what they are after and are only swayed to a very limited degree by community input)

Analysis: The Hauler was added to give a new toy to play with. Not in an effort to "keep people testing". Frontier rightly don't give a toss whether "testers" like the OP continue to play the game during beta. Real testers don't complain about progression. Real testers don't progress, they sit in booth endlessly grinding away at inane parts of the game in an attempt to break it and then file reports when they do. You are network traffic...

Discuss: Frontier have so far done a stand up job of designing the game and providing beta builds to test the network and keep fans engaged. They are professional game designers and should not take the misguided, rank amateur opinions of the lazier portion of their player base too seriously. People who feel that they should be provided with "what they feel is correct for their goal" during beta testing are not really testing and should just wait for the full content release with final game.

You're welcome for my time in this matter.
Click to expand...

This... just this....

We're all testers, don't get attached to you're lovely sidewinder / eagle / cobra / anaconda (I don't personally see how anyone can get attached to a hauler or lakon). Don't get attached to the (10, 1000, 1,000,000) credits you've made. It's all funny money anyway.

I've ground my way up from the sidewinder to an Iron Anaconda now, no cheats, no exploits, not even using trade tools that much! We don't actually know what FD want us to test (other than Sandro asking us to look at Gimbals). I assume it's the network code still really since they've obviously jigged the markets to not run out after 1 lakon's shown up. However even there they are still getting good data from us. I also think that FD are testing 'social' aspects of the player base. We know that they are tracking everything, I just hope that we're giving them what they need to make the final release a great game!

Eid
 

RickDangerous

R
Considering that you can get to Cobra in about 3 days by following the instructions on this here forum (LP 4 scenario, then Hauler, then Cobra), I don't see the problem. Why people keep on grinding FDS when there is absolutely no need to do so is bizarre. I play FDS now, for fun, in a fully tricked out Cobra, by first following the above formula for a few days.
 

Commander Dave

Commander Dave
Pay attention people. This is how it is.

Crudzilla said:
Frontier have so far done a stand up job of designing the game and providing beta builds to test the network and keep fans engaged. They are professional game designers and should not take the misguided, rank amateur opinions of the lazier portion of their player base too seriously. People who feel that they should be provided with "what they feel is correct for their goal" during beta testing are not really testing and should just wait for the full content release with final game.

You're welcome for my time in this matter.
Click to expand...
 

Rickenbacker

Rickenbacker
kb_Nomad said:
What do the players/testers feel would really allow us to make this a game we could play for years to come?
Click to expand...

While I'm as frustrated as anyone with the grind, I'm afraid your question is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what we as testers feel that we need, what matters is what FD want to put out there for stress/bug testing, and if we want to contribute to the success of the game, we just do what we can with what we're given.

Games designed by committee always suck.
 

Alric

A
P

Not bothered about balance issues in beta, and not bothered if some things are hard to get in beta. I'd rather most if the game is fresh at release.

They will make sure things that need testing get enough testers. They don't need everyone testing everything.

Hopefully we will see some shiny new stuff, and evidence that the game is progressing well towards launch.. that will do nicely. It doesn't need to be a balanced game you sink hours a day into right now.
 

timbow

timbow
I guess if you can come up with the documented test cases that you will fulfill with the change in parameters then maybe FD will grant your wish, but FDs testers will be doing this anyway as part of their functional testing, and as you don't know what the requirements, user stories, use cases are then it is unlikely you're going to hit the mark. You could embark on some exploratory testing, if so, draw up your charter. As a tester expect to continually reset to a baseline rather than make game progress (i.e. more resets than we currently have).

We're not really testing as such, we're basically meatsack load test agents. The parameters that we are playing against are set by FD, e.g. gimballed weapons, NPC combat capability, beam laser effectiveness.
 

Globusdiablo

Globusdiablo
The black cat reference...

Pay attention people. This is how it is.

Crudzilla said:
Frontier have so far done a stand up job of designing the game and providing beta builds to test the network and keep fans engaged. They are professional game designers and should not take the misguided, rank amateur opinions of the lazier portion of their player base too seriously. People who feel that they should be provided with "what they feel is correct for their goal" during beta testing are not really testing and should just wait for the full content release with final game.

You're welcome for my time in this matter.
Click to expand...

Deja vu... :)
 

lysan

lysan
I grinded my way up from 300 cr, i tried to break the trading system, and i traded some of the same commodities over and over to see if the prices were changed. Until now I don't see that, even the fish had the same price all the time. Yes i got some profit, yes I upgraded my ship, but I also found some funny glitch and reported it to support.

IRL I'm older than my brother, to bad I got a head start in life, he is cleaver maybe he will surpass me at some point :D
 

timbow

timbow
And if you think grinding from 1000 credits is a PITA, you should try starting with 100 credits, having to buy fuel, and a cargo, and getting "griefed" by NPC pirates that attack you as you head to the space station....:p
 

scrufferpops

scrufferpops
Crudzilla said:
"Tester needs" is an oxymoron. A tester tests what he is given to test.

Insights: Everyone now flying an Anaconda started with 1000 credits. Including myself who started at PB. In beta as in full release there will be people who progress faster than others and those who whine that progress is too slow regardless of the pace.

Concerns: Frontier might take the whining of lazy, entitled players seriously and blow their load in beta rather than holding back the good stuff for the full game, or worse balance the game to give them everything they want right off the bat. (this does not actually concern me as I think Frontier has a good handle on what they are after and are only swayed to a very limited degree by community input)

Analysis: The Hauler was added to give a new toy to play with. Not in an effort to "keep people testing". Frontier rightly don't give a toss whether "testers" like the OP continue to play the game during beta. Real testers don't complain about progression. Real testers don't progress, they sit in booth endlessly grinding away at inane parts of the game in an attempt to break it and then file reports when they do. You are network traffic...

Discuss: Frontier have so far done a stand up job of designing the game and providing beta builds to test the network and keep fans engaged. They are professional game designers and should not take the misguided, rank amateur opinions of the lazier portion of their player base too seriously. People who feel that they should be provided with "what they feel is correct for their goal" during beta testing are not really testing and should just wait for the full content release with final game.

You're welcome for my time in this matter.
Click to expand...

1st point - actually 'tester needs' is not an oxymoron, it makes perfect sense. If a tester is to test out the whole build he needs access to all facets of the game.

2nd point opening up more of the galaxy soon would undoubtably be a good thing. The engine has already been stress tested with 20,000 people crammed into 5 systems for enough time. Its time to test out the economic model more fully by populating the systems more sparsely like will be in the release of the game - opening up more systems (alot more) soon will help achieve that goal enormously.

3rd point. Alot of people who are piloting anaconda's are people who either directly hacked the game or used a hack someone else made. I personally know several people who hacked the game so that their bounty went up to 137 billion credits. All their pals shot him and instantly became billionaires.
Now this is great in some ways, because it means FDEV have discovered another exploit. But don't assume everyone in a lakon or anaconda got there the hard way. ALOT of them didnt.

4) FDEV have been around for a long time, and it shows. I don't think anyone who knows an iota about this game thinks for one second they don't know what they're doing.
 

scrufferpops

scrufferpops
timbow said:
And if you think grinding from 1000 credits is a PITA, you should try starting with 100 credits, having to buy fuel, and a cargo, and getting "griefed" by NPC pirates that attack you as you head to the space station....:p
Click to expand...

Thats the original 'Elite' game for ya!! I know! I was there!! lol
 

the-monk

the-monk
Crudzilla said:
"Tester needs" is an oxymoron. A tester tests what he is given to test.

Insights: Everyone now flying an Anaconda started with 1000 credits. Including myself who started at PB. In beta as in full release there will be people who progress faster than others and those who whine that progress is too slow regardless of the pace.

Concerns: Frontier might take the whining of lazy, entitled players seriously and blow their load in beta rather than holding back the good stuff for the full game, or worse balance the game to give them everything they want right off the bat. (this does not actually concern me as I think Frontier has a good handle on what they are after and are only swayed to a very limited degree by community input)

Analysis: The Hauler was added to give a new toy to play with. Not in an effort to "keep people testing". Frontier rightly don't give a toss whether "testers" like the OP continue to play the game during beta. Real testers don't complain about progression. Real testers don't progress, they sit in booth endlessly grinding away at inane parts of the game in an attempt to break it and then file reports when they do. You are network traffic...

Discuss: Frontier have so far done a stand up job of designing the game and providing beta builds to test the network and keep fans engaged. They are professional game designers and should not take the misguided, rank amateur opinions of the lazier portion of their player base too seriously. People who feel that they should be provided with "what they feel is correct for their goal" during beta testing are not really testing and should just wait for the full content release with final game.

You're welcome for my time in this matter.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Oh, and you Sir are my hero ^_^
 

Crudzilla

Crudzilla
scrufferpops said:
1st point - actually 'tester needs' is not an oxymoron, it makes perfect sense. If a tester is to test out the whole build he needs access to all facets of the game.

2nd point opening up more of the galaxy soon would undoubtably be a good thing. The engine has already been stress tested with 20,000 people crammed into 5 systems for enough time. Its time to test out the economic model more fully by populating the systems more sparsely like will be in the release of the game - opening up more systems (alot more) soon will help achieve that goal enormously.

3rd point. Alot of people who are piloting anaconda's are people who either directly hacked the game or used a hack someone else made. I personally know several people who hacked the game so that their bounty went up to 137 billion credits. All their pals shot him and instantly became billionaires.
Now this is great in some ways, because it means FDEV have discovered another exploit. But don't assume everyone in a lakon or anaconda got there the hard way. ALOT of them didnt.

4) FDEV have been around for a long time, and it shows. I don't think anyone who knows an iota about this game thinks for one second they don't know what they're doing.
Click to expand...

You seem to have little idea of what 'testing' really is.

First point - Oxymoron was hyperbole perhaps. A tester does have needs, they are:

1. a computer and something (no matter how insubstantial) to test on it.
2. a list of things test.
3. a way to report his results.
4. (hopefully) some compensation for his/her time.

Actual testers very rarely play a whole build of games. They certainly don't feel entitled to anything more than they are given. And when playing complete builds they will almost never play through a game as a normal player would.
They will be assigned a task by a test lead. These tasks are usually very mundane, repetitive and focused on a tiny part of a game. Actual testing is not something that I would do without pay. Playing for a laugh and reporting a few bugs is not testing.

Second point - Opening up more of the galaxy will have little benefit in terms of testing. The economy can be tested using AI and algorithms far more effectively than it can be by using human testers. And a billion times more effectively than by using current beta players (the vast majority will not have reported a single issue).

Third point - This hacking thing is getting tired. I don't think it was widespread (and if it was then I don't care). The people who hacked were doing a better job of 'testing' than you, me or most other 'testers'. The job of a tester is to break the game. I have ground my way up to an anaconda the hard way and have seem many other commanders doing the same during my numerous trade runs.

4) ?!? You are right on your final point. Frontier do know what they are doing. Which is why I'm sick of people making selfish suggestions for new content in beta. I know you want to see more. I want to see more. I get worryingly excited when each news letter arrives (oh the thrill and occasional disappointment of the sneak peak).

If Frontier want your opinion on game design choices they will ask for it (and have already - see supercruise). There is a good reason why they have limited these requests for input and it is because designing a game by committee is a recipe for disaster (See SC, zing!)

By all means ask for more. But be prepared to be ignored and DON'T dress it up as "needed for testing" it's such a crock of ****e. You want to play more of the game, me too, we all will when it is released. end of.
 
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scrufferpops

scrufferpops
Crudzilla said:
You seem to have little idea of what 'testing' really is.

First point - Oxymoron was hyperbole perhaps. A tester does have needs, they are:

1. a computer and something (no matter how insubstantial) to test on it.
2. a list of things test.
3. a way to report his results.
4. (hopefully) some compensation for his/her time.

Actual testers very rarely play a whole build of games. They certainly don't feel entitled to anything more than they are given. And when playing complete builds they will almost never play through a game as a normal player would.
They will be assigned a task by a test lead. These tasks are usually very mundane, repetitive and focused on a tiny part of a game. Actual testing is not something that I would do without pay. Playing for a laugh and reporting a few bugs is not testing.

Second point - Opening up more of the galaxy will have little benefit in terms of testing. The economy can be tested using AI and algorithms far more effectively than it can be by using human testers. And a billion times more effectively than by using current beta players (the vast majority will not have reported a single issue).

Third point - This hacking thing is getting tired. I don't think it was widespread (and if it was then I don't care). The people who hacked were doing a better job of 'testing' than you, me or most other 'testers'. The job of a tester is to break the game. I have ground my way up to an anaconda the hard way and have seem many other commanders doing the same during my numerous trade runs.

4) ?!? You are right on your final point. Frontier do know what they are doing. Which is why I'm sick of people making selfish suggestions for new content in beta. I know you want to see more. I want to see more. I get worryingly excited when each news letter arrives (oh the thrill and occasional disappointment of the sneak peak).

If Frontier want your opinion on game design choices they will ask for it (and have already - see supercruise). There is a good reason why they have limited these requests for input and it is because designing a game by committee is a recipe for disaster (See SC, zing!)

By all means ask for more. But be prepared to be ignored and DON'T dress it up as "needed for testing" it's such a crock of ****e. You want to play more of the game, me too, we all will when it is released. end of.
Click to expand...


1) you could be right on first point, I don't know but it seems to me from a holistic viewpoint to test every facet of the game.

2) Totally wrong. Theres nothing that can replace human testing of the economic model.

3) personally a dont give a flying **** about hackers. If they enjoy it thats their bag. Getting tired of hackers is immaterial. Just enjoy the game from YOUR perspective

4) Of COURSE I want to play the game! DUR!!! But i'll patiently wait until gamma to fully enjoy it. Maybe full release and then expansion packs.

5) The future is bright.
 
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