Engineers Thanks FDev for 2.1 - I know understand how to have fun (honestly!)

[-VR- Max Factor]

So what exactly does FD have to show for Season 2 then? It has been 6 months.
Driving an SRV on mostly empty planets
Materials and Synthesizing FSD boosts
Engineer content that is almost impossible to reach

Everything else is accessible with 1.6. Since the only new content that we have had in 6 months is almost impossible to make use of, we have a right to be angry and disappointed.

Engineers are easy to access. Sorry but you are not making any sense. There are various activities you can do on planet surfaces. I suggest you go out and find them.

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There is also 2 types of failure:

1. The update doesn't make the game any better.
2. The update makes the game worse.

For example, CQC was a feature that for me, didn't add anything of value to the game, but for those who liked it, sure, more power to them, it didn't hurt the game in the end. Whereas 2.1 has for me mostly ruined the game, by turning the almost every paradigm on its head for which I previously loved the game.

And for me, I feel the exact opposite. I like the engineers as they are. Can they be improved, of course, but I am still having a great time and wouldn't be upset if they werent. The only thing that is missing is module and limited cargo storage, which I hope will come.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Sorry, I didn't really say what I thought "success" was. Really, a major update should be considered a success if the majority of the player base likes the update (disregarding the bug and polish side of the update, thought I think 2.1 did a good job in that regard). If an update is released and 90% of the player base hate it, then the update failed, as the goal of any major update is to introduce new elements for the players to enjoy, and if 90% don't enjoy it, it failed. Conversely, if 90% of the player base love the update, then it was a success, as most the players enjoy the new content.

Now I'm not saying we're at a 90/10 split over the Engineers, I was just giving an extreme hypothetical to illustrate "success" or "failure" of an update. And "success" is extremely important, as it's tied to how many players enjoy the update--because if most of the players don't enjoy the update, and it fails, it's a terrible sign about the direction and future of the game. I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say how great it would be if this game is still around in several years, but that's tied to how much and how many of us like the updates. I talked three of my friends into buying Elite. I also talked them out of buying Horizons.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if 40-60% of a playerbase don't like a major update, it failed. (Obviously the gravity of the failure depends on the exact percantage) Because even 40% is a HUGE chunk of the players that otherwise enjoyed the game. As for how many of us are on which side, the forum polls aren't super credible, but just looking around I see more against it than for it. Sure, "people with problems post more," but the forums should have a regular amount of people who get on to talk about this game they love. And Engi defenders seem rarer than the dislikers.

And I checked Steam--we're still had mixed, but it's getting more negative reviews, many of which specifically point out 2.1, so I don't know where this "very few of those are complaining" is coming from. And looking at Steam charts, it...is not great. The game is on a downward trend, and while 2.1 brought it back up, it went back down to what it as before in a couple days. Not that many Elite players use Steam, but you brought it up.

On the forums there are about 100 people complaining. There are roughly 160000 active players (80000 steam players in the last 2 weeks), probably more as I think more people play without steam, numbers are very healthy at the moment. So 50-100 people of the forums are complaining. This is a very small amount. We have absalutly no idea what the numbers are of people who don't like the engineers. Fdev will as they can tell how many people are using the engineers (if you don't enjoy it why use them).

And to me it looks like its mostly the min-maxers that are complaining the most. I think that is why this system was used, so there is no min/max ship, they are all unique to some degree.

 

[Flavourless]

I'd like to post something positive, because last night I finally understood how I can enjoy the Engineers update.
Well, admittedly, it took me 30 hours with 2.1 to get it, but I hope that I can help all you fellow CMDRs with my little insights.
Because during the first 25 hours, I found it very frustrating and grindy. But now it's fun again. Why?

Insight #1: I stopped pursuing specific ENG upgrades. There are literally hundreds of blueprints. For some of those, collecting the materials is very easy. For some, it's really difficult. And it makes sense! From a gameplay perspective, why should everyone run around with only the best upgrades within the first week already?

Insight #2: There is some sense to how specific materials can be found, depending on activity, circumstances, system and system status. We are just learning the rules, so bear with us! This has been a common feature of this game. Frontier has never told us the rules outright, we always had to learn it as a team effort. Kudos to this thread .

Insight #3: Missions are the way to go! Besides the current bugs, they have become really varied now! Many are little stories in themselves, influenced by your reputation, rank, and the current faction status. Even with surprising twists and branches. I think this is what FDev want us to do: explore the Galaxy through those missions. This has always been the key concept of Elite: a lone CMDR roaming the Galaxy. As a nice side effect, they give you the rarer materials for engineering. And I suspect there might be some unique missions which will reveal the major storylines.

TL;DR: Do missions, do your other activities, and after some time, you will be rewarded with the ability to get upgrades with all the materials you have collected along the way. Thank you FDev! This is the most amazing update for me since Dec 2014.

Only just saw this.
Thanks! A post of rare quality. Play smart and enjoy is definitely the way forward. Insight #1 is a peach.
But too many CMDRs going amok with hoarding and moaning that they can't do even more of it even though they hate it.

 

[Dragonzord]

Also you know you don't have to find justification for your dislike for the game, right? You don't have to make up numbers, don't have to use biased polls to back your point. You don't like 2.1 due of a), b) and c). Cool beans, it is your opinion.

Steam numbers? They are same and there's lot of reasons not really pay attention to them. Only FD knows true numbers and if Engineers doesn't really click with lot of players they will improve them.

Just move on and take a break. No, FD won't turn ship around just for you.

I didn't use biased polls (I said they weren't super credible) and I also said the Steam numbers didn't really matter, I used them because someone else brought up Steam--I was trying to just mention it in passing.

Also, lol, "my opinion," "FD won't turn ship around just for me," as if the dissatisfaction with the update was in any way insignificant.

A big fear alot of us have, is that after we take a break, we'll come back to a game we still don't like, and has possibly become worse with future updates. We're afraid that the game we love will go with a direction we hate, and could possibly never see the end of the development plan. So instead of "just moving on," we come here, post out frustrations, and hope FD takes the time to listen to the problems a large part of the playerbase has with the update.

Cause we love 'em.

Also gotta love how people are critical of min/maxers, as if searching for the path of least resistance was somehow odd. Honestly 2.1 is the antithesis of a min/maxer--it's maximum effort, minimum reward.

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Fixed that for ya.

God forbid we pay for something and be dissatisfied when we don't think the product is delivering, right? Man, we're brats.​

 

[Dragonzord]

On the forums there are about 100 people complaining. There are roughly 160000 active players (80000 steam players in the last 2 weeks), probably more as I think more people play without steam, numbers are very healthy at the moment. So 50-100 people of the forums are complaining. This is a very small amount. We have absalutly no idea what the numbers are of people who don't like the engineers. Fdev will as they can tell how many people are using the engineers (if you don't enjoy it why use them).

And to me it looks like its mostly the min-maxers that are complaining the most. I think that is why this system was used, so there is no min/max ship, they are all unique to some degree.

Maybe FD will put out a detailed poll--maybe survey would be a better word--about 2.1, and write about it in the newsletters and maybe something in GalNet. Get them some stats on what we all think about each and every thing. Hell, that'd be a good idea for any major update. They wouldn't have to post the results, but I think alot of players would feel better knowing FD was taking more concrete feedback into consideration, rather than just listening to our going-nowhere-and-we-all-know-it's-never-going-anywhere forum arguments. And if I were to be wrong about how many people don't like 2.1, then I would be wrong. I'd just steam in a corner by myself about RNG being bad game design and eat cookies. And play the Great Calmer of Nerves, Stardew Valley.

I'm not a min/maxer. I like customization, myself. I was looking forward to tweaking an Eagle to be super fast, but by sacrificing heat efficiency--I was gonna call it the "Hot Pocket," because the ship exterior would be on fire, but I would cold as ice on the inside. Not really relevant but I'd thought I'd share an lol I had.

And, seriously, I think the hardcore min/maxers are just gonna grind it out until they have a beast of a space boat. I think there is going to be a min/max ship, it'll just be rarer--though that hits the goal, I suppose. But I still don't understand why people care about other CMDR's ships--at least, not when it's used as a defense for the RNG system when the other proposed system is player-controlled tweaking. If we were allowed to tweak, your ship can still be unique, as you'll be balancing out the stats differently depending on your style of play. You would up a stat you wanted in exchange for a down of another stat you could play with--the magnitude of the changes being controlled by you (depending on he module type, but both the +'s and -'s would balance out). Sure, ships are unique with the RNG system, but there isn't any personalization to it, you're not doing anything but pulling the lever after spending hours of getting to the lever. This game was all up with the stats and outfitting and progress before, and 2.1 just seems...alien, when compared to the rest of it, like it came out of some other game.

 

[Scratx]

I'm liking this update more than I did at first. Just let me have a personal storage locker on my favorite station, maybe 100 tons or so, and I'd be happy. Even a place to store engineer related commodities would be appreciated. That way when I get tired of running missions or searching for materials. I can hop in a war ship and blow up stuff for awhile.

 

[Shizuka]

I understand what are you saying, and its ok if it looks good for someone, but, I really find frustrating, waiting 6 months for a new expansion, and then downloading the client and waiting a little more for the patch, and then entering the game, and ppl asking me to play NOT the new expansion but the old one.
    is that.......

 

[xdeath]

After the AI fixes, I've been very pleased with this update. 1.6 and 2.1. Surface salvaging is where I spend most of my time, and it's been made so much better with 2.1.
It looks better and there is more diversity in what you find. I found a crashed DBX and a crashed Eagle.

And in 1.6 I found a derelict Anaconda. Very proud of that find.

Of the complainers/complaints, I find that the only legitimate ones are about a few quality of life improvements(module storage, ship transportation, materials market). All other complaints, I feel the complainer is so bitter that nothing would satisfy them, so no real point in taking them too seriously.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I understand what are you saying, and its ok if it looks good for someone, but, I really find frustrating, waiting 6 months for a new expansion, and then downloading the client and waiting a little more for the patch, and then entering the game, and ppl asking me to play NOT the new expansion but the old one.
    is that.......

The expansion was Horizons, the engineers is an update to the expansion. Nobody is telling you not to use the engineers, but to exclusively just concentrate on the engineers, I can imagine you will suffer from burnout. I see the engineers to go to from time to time to see what's available and not grind.

As I've said various time in the past is the game gives you options to grind on not. The choice is yours.