The 15 second logout timer in action

[Mohrgan]

I think you're trying to take one experience and justify it for the rest of the game. An experience that happened in a PG.

It doesnt work that way.

but please continue my great and powerful forum genius. You know everything. I obviously do not.

There were way more experiences than one, during my time as a PvP player. That group strongly urged that we play in open, while conducting PG business. I consented because they took their position seriously, and I respected that. I still do.

That group has a prominent PAF that I supported in every way possible. BGS and PP. Right up to, and including the R2P campaign.

I can support the notion that you have no more experience than I do. If that matters at all. You have nothing on me.

 

[M00ka]

"CQC" without the game-enforced restrictions- but rather agreements among parties. You can then play out challenges without the offchance of some murderhobo who doesn't like to play by "rules" involving themselves without invitation. Don't know why this is such a "contentious" idea to some.

Oh I know why our resident PvP proponents dismissed the concept of a PvP PG - no easy targets, targets that may (heaven forbit) shoot back, the possibilities of players with better skill, better ships than them.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

There were way more experiences that one, during my time as a PvP player. That group strongly urged that we play in open, while conducting PG business. I consented because they took their position seriously, and I respected that. I still do.

That group has a prominent PAF that I supported in every way possible. BGS and PP. Right up to, and including the R2P campaign.

I can support the notion that you have no more experience than I do. If that matters at all. You have nothing on me.

Im sorry but limiting yourself to a PG. Then saying the game is balanced because you did it once. IN A PG. Really makes your whole argument look like that 2 year old drew it?

Want me to put your argument on the fridge? Because thats about all its good for.

 

[Mohrgan]

Im sorry but limiting yourself to a PG. Then saying the game is balanced because you did it once. IN A PG. Really makes your whole argument look like that 2 year old drew it?

Want me to put your argument on the fridge? Because thats about all its good for.

In this case PG was meant to mean Player Group.

 

[Sylveria]

Oh I know why our resident PvP proponents dismissed the concept of a PvP PG - no easy targets, targets that may (heaven forbit) shoot back, the possibilities of players with better skill, better ships than them.

Indeed, that could be one reason for why. I actually see why PG/PvP would be more of a benefit for those who complain about "Combat Loggers" and such, because it's the PvP equivalent of Mobius... an agreement made by all in the same group that rules of engagement clearly exist and those who break such rules are ejected/expelled for it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

In this case PG was meant to mean Player Group.

Hammers right?

 

[Sylveria]

In this case PG was meant to mean Player Group.

LOL oops there goes his whole argument then.

 

[M00ka]

Indeed, that could be one reason for why. I actually see why PG/PvP would be more of a benefit for those who complain about "Combat Loggers" and such, because it's the PvP equivalent of Mobius... an agreement made by all in the same group that rules of engagement clearly exist and those who break such rules are ejected/expelled for it.

And we all know now how much 'That90'skid' is a stickler for the rules, especially concerning all aspects of PvP, you would think he would be screaming for a player group like that!

 

[Mohrgan]

Hammers right?

Some of them. There was a strong group of Commanders directing the BGS/PP aspects of running a Player Group as well. I spent a good deal of time posting that group's ticks here on the forum, in the run up to R2P.

 

[Sylveria]

And we all know now how much 'That90'skid' is a stickler for the rules, especially concerning all aspects of PvP, you would think he would be screaming for a player group like that!

Hell, I don't know why he hasn't already organized such a group himself. I may not agree with Mobius on everything... but I certainly give him respect for creating a massive player group that has reached the limits multiple times based on the sole agreement among players of NO PvP. It's like herding cats... but somehow he managed to do it.

That takes skill and dedication.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

LOL oops there goes his whole argument then.

Not really. Just a misunderstanding from the text they gave us.

However, Id be interested in the amount of people that were involved, vs the amount of people that were involved against one another. And how many kills happened between the 2 player groups. Im going to say under 5 kills. Probably a few logs.

Even though they may have fought months or weeks for a system between the two.

Its okay though. Im wrong again. Even though I knew the PG he was in =P

 

[znôrt]

I agree with ya. I think we are on the way to defining how this game should be played. I smell a pretty big BGS rework coming with the way they left up one clicking and the way transactions are. They reworked crime and punishment and engineers.

They are leveling the playing field so everyone has a fair chance for engagement.

They are laying the foundation right now and like 10 people on these forums understand it. The rest are running around like a chicken with their heads cut off. Getting their birthdays ruined or condoning combat logging.

Everything they are talking about is gonna change.

But hey, like Morhgan said Ive never been right about anything.

i honestly don't think so. personally i would like that, but don't see it happening anytime soon. first, frontier will never fully alienate one portion of customers. second, making them coexist now is a considerable challenge and they are very evidently busy with other stuff. what makes you think this is going to happen? the open-only-pp proposal? well, they backed down pretty soon on that (by watering it down) and now have (de)prioritized the whole thing sine die.

It could certainly work, if everyone accepted that there are as many paths in this game, as there are players. Seek out, and enjoy what you like, and leave others to do the same. Kind of like the Golden Rule, in space.

if everyone accepted that there are as many paths in this game as there are players we wouldn't know war, law nor religion

i totally get you, but not everyone is going to accept that, and expecting that is just unrealistic.

my point is that in creating such an environment you have to assume that some players will play merrily along, others will want to go full consequence, and yet others will try to abuse it, and you have to deal with it to a reasonable extent. the current ruleset is not clear/solid/efficient enough in those cases, which is the cause of friction. e.g., if we (the forum) can't agree if combat log is good or bad it's because that's frontier's call but they are (deliberately) ambiguous on that. if their stance were straighforward there would be no confusion or discussion but they'll probably loose some customers. same goes for proper territorial pvp, for pure pve, etc. trying to accomodate all of this in the kind of 'one size fits all' approach that modes are is just not dealing with that problem, but expecting users to solve it. would it be nice? yes. will it work? nope! it's just like inviting cannibals and vegans to the same picnic and expecting they will all get along well.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Hell, I don't know why he hasn't already organized such a group himself. I may not agree with Mobius on everything... but I certainly give him respect for creating a massive player group that has reached the limits multiple times based on the sole agreement among players of NO PvP. It's like herding cats... but somehow he managed to do it.

That takes skill and dedication.

Im sorry but it really doesnt take much to say HERE IS A SAFE SPACE EVERYONE CAN JOIN.

Although he didnt do it out of spite to take objectives away from everyone else.

He did it for the new or basic PVE player that has no interest in other players objectives.

MCRN and OOM players did that on their own.

But he backs their play in doing it. WHich is wrong.

And at the same time, OOM for a while GAVE UP their BGS because they couldnt figure out who was attacking them. When the attackers were in OPEN PLAY the whole time. They had the chance everyone else doesnt have. And they were too stupid to realize they could go out and stop them because there are used to the safe space play over the years.

Again, its not that hard to create the thing he created.

 

[Sylveria]

Again, its not that hard to create the thing he created.

Then do it there, hot stuff. Show us what you've got, instead of clearly being jealous of the accomplishments of others.

I'll definitely give you cred and respect when you do so.

I'm quite serious. I'll even post a VERY public statement to the fact in Dangerous Discussion- right at the top, commending you for your efforts!

Get that PvP community ORGANIZED, get them to reach the group limits at least twice- make a statement to Frontier!

Let them know just how many players are interested in your opinion of what PvP should be in this game.

Because that's exactly what MOBIUS did in regard to the PvE community in a sheer statement of how much a cooperative PvE mode really is needed.

Don't just talk about it... do it.

 

[Mohrgan]

Not really. Just a misunderstanding from the text they gave us.

However, Id be interested in the amount of people that were involved, vs the amount of people that were involved against one another. And how many kills happened between the 2 player groups. Im going to say under 5 kills. Probably a few logs.

Even though they may have fought months or weeks for a system between the two.

Its okay though. Im wrong again. Even though I knew the PG he was in =P

Complete silliness. You have a real tendency to just make stuffs up and expect it to be accepted. This group, and I, patrolled a very well known newbie system. I hesitate to drop their name, because their views, and mine are far apart, so I won't drag them into my disagreements.

P.S. There were way more than two Player Groups involved.

 

[Sylveria]

Wow, that went silent very quickly.

Any other takers for creating and organizing a massive PvP PG that rivals what Liam Rafferty managed to accomplish with Mobius?

If you want to make a "statement" to Frontier... that'd definitely be one way to do it.

I mean, if it's that "easy" and all.

 

[M00ka]

Wow, that went silent very quickly.

Any other takers for creating and organizing a massive PvP PG that rivals what Liam Rafferty managed to accomplish with Mobius?

If you want to make a "statement" to Frontier... that'd definitely be one way to do it.

I mean, if it's that "easy" and all.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, Pity too because I never really got an answer as to why the PvP crowd are the only niche group that demands everyone adopt their way of playing. Damn I will never find out now.

 

[Sylveria]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, Pity too because I never really got an answer as to why the PvP crowd are the only niche group that demands everyone adopt their way of playing. Damn I will never find out now.

The real pity here is that even though the PvE community demonstrated clearly there's a need for PvE Open- we instead get scraps off the table in the form of PG.

Meanwhile blowhards tooting their own horns who apparently can't "manage" their way out of a wet paper bag continue with contentious assertions and clear jealousy in the form of snide and rude remarks about the accomplishments of others, yet not demonstrating a damned thing. I really do hope Frontier IS reading and listening. Because money talks... and we know what walks.

 

[dfgqsb]

Oh I know why our resident PvP proponents dismissed the concept of a PvP PG - no easy targets, targets that may (heaven forbit) shoot back, the possibilities of players with better skill, better ships than them.

Now, this kind of misunderstanding is everywhere and I have no idea why.

If you want to git gud, 1v1mebro is only the start; wing fights would take you much further but not the end. Ultimately, you have to get used to being ganked, and claim your kills in the same time.

And that's when funny things start to occur. I have met lots of losers who failed to gank me then logged. I do want to hear how people would justify those guys' actions.

Those who taskkilled are cheaters, no doubt. And those menu-loggers, hmmmmmmm, what about cowards? Any objection?

 

[Mohrgan]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, Pity too because I never really got an answer as to why the PvP crowd are the only niche group that demands everyone adopt their way of playing. Damn I will never find out now.

Because wolves don't hunt bears. Predators search for the weak, even among herd animals. It's the exact same reason why CQC/Arena was rejected.

A PvP player needs other people. That's why open only mechanics are the only solution they will accept. They don't want better PvP, they just want more of it.