I'd sign up lmao"Come together and kill each other" sounds like the perfect PvP slogan to me.
Ever heard of Counter Strike?...
The 15 second logout timer in action
- Thread starter Touch of Grey
- Start date
I'm almost never specifically looking for PvP. I'm looking to play a character in as believable an implementation of the Elite universe as practical. I'm a 'PvP proponent' because any system that arbitrarily distinguishes between CMDRs and NPCs, such as by making it possible to attack one group and not the other, is fundamentally incompatible with that.
Yes, there are plenty of such distinctions already in place, but I was never in favor of any of them, and their presence is not an excuse to move the game further away from plausibility, IMO.
I do enjoy most of the PvP encounters I come across, because they are one of the few sources of risk and less than completely arbitrary challenge the game can provide. I also tend to be prepared for them, because I'm not particularly keen on playing victims, but even when I am not, these encounters usually enhance the overall experience of the game.
Chess has a clearly defined and static victory condition. You will often have no idea what the victory conditions of an opponent in a more free-form setting may be at any given moment.
Even if your intent is to concede victory, you may very well resume actions your enemies were trying to oppose, rather than face the deterrent of loss, or the downtime required to recover from it, by logging off.
When I see someone use out of character means to escape an encounter, I don't see them as conceding defeat, but refusing to even risk defeat (via means that cannot even be placed in an in-game context). More often than not, these players do not have their CMDR abandon the field, they just reappear moments later and keep doing what they were doing. They haven't lost anything, so are faced with neither a deterrent, nor attrition that requires one to regroup and recover. If there was a clear in-game incentive for the destruction of their vessel (self-defense, revenge, a bounty, mission target, etc), and there often is, then they have cheated their opponent out of that, as well as any time spent interacting with them.
What if every NPC mission target simply conceded defeat and vanished logged off? What if every NPC pirate logged off every time they were losing, only to interdict you try again as soon as you returned to SC? Think of CMDRs as characters that fill the same roles as NPCs, just ones that are occasionally more fleshed out, and you'll have a better grasp of why out of character actions that avert in-character consequences can be so annoying.
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OK so you see here is where the experience of ED can be so different for different people. You don't NEED to do PvP to get a Corvette. When I started playing the game, I basically played Solo ALL the time. I focused on Trade to make money... for months. My initial experience of combat was it was very tough. When I was flying around in Cobras and Asps and... er, yeah, Vipers, I would get destroyed lots and lots. My gameplay became all about how to afford more powerful ships, just to avoid dying constantly. When I finally had enough to afford big ships like the Annie, Cutter, and Vette, I was just like: Cool! I knew I was no sh*t-hot pilot, but I thought it was no big deal... because, you know, we're playing a computer game here, right?
I was living in China then, and my internet connection was erratic, it would cut out several times during a play session, so I just stayed out of Open mostly. Oh and slaves? No. Just no. I love the Imperial ships, I always feel at home in the Empire, but there's just no way I would trade slaves, game or no.
I CAN dig what you are saying, how you guys feel. Which is why I am making some effort to give you my side of the story, why I am trying to give you some suggestions for improving your social skills (*chuckle*), and why I am retreating to Solo, which I guess is where I belong.
Thanks for your advice. I understand what you say about interdictions, and will always do that now, even in Solo play. I feel I have learned from you, and the other PvP guys, and I seriously bear no ill will to any of you, even the griefers and abusers, hell we were all young once.
Oh and I do have a Cutter as well btw, lol. I am currently doing the Aisling Duval Prismatic grind so I can make the shields on it even more obscene, lol. And then I will go back to mostly trade and exploration, who knows I might even find Raxxla one fine day.
Respect.
First off, a "PvP PG" in the sense that it's being used in this argument is basically an oxymoron. Sure, there are situations where people might practice with one another in a PG, and even credible PvPers might stage epic wing combat scenarios in a PG, but in general to get gud at combat and be proficient at bare knuckles PvP, you have to take the training wheels, helmets, knee pads and other safety gear off and go experience it in it's most raw form, otherwise you're just the guy learning karate for a year who does nothing but study kata and gets a black belt and then gets his rear end kicked in the first real bar fight he gets in with people who actually fight all the time with "no rules."
More to your point, though, is the question of "easy" targets vs what people like you/Silveria/rlsg etc who don't engage in PvP and probably don't even play in Open consistently consider "worthy" targets: setting aside the genuine griefers who's gameplay consists of literally nothing but hanging out at stations during CG's looking for ways to harass people, most PvPers such as myself who have absolutely no qualms destroying other players in what you would no doubt consider asymmetrical combat (and when it comes to combat, if it's a PvPer against a PvEer it's automatically "asymmetrical"), absolutely love to fight other PvPers/opponents on "fair" terms. It goes on constantly at CG's, at San Tu, at Wyrd etc; PvPers love to fight other people who are "worthy" and give as good as they get. With that said, think of PvPers who fit that profile who also like to prey on easier targets at times as killing for sport--sport and challenge are both fun at the right time, in other words. Most of these types of players have no interest in CQC because it's silly and bears little to no relationship to ED. Give us an entire system with zones to control, an arena with ranking systems and classes where we can can enter our "real" ships and modules against similar builds, throw in some financial rewards....PvPers would be all over that. I know I sure would.
Have all the opinions you want but
is the only one that matters in the end.
is the only one that matters in the end.
That's understandable, I'm a combat junkie so the first thing I'd do in any combat ship is find the biggest baddest mf I could. Like that time when I got my first Viper MKIII and thought it would be a great idea to try an Anaconda assassination...
Did I mention I was scared of Anacondas for a long time?
Ultimately I think FD need to seriously re-evaluate whether they want a primarily PvP or a PvE focused game because it seems (to me), neither community is particularly happy when we mix due to our substantially different views on how 'our game' should be...
I think it's leaning more towards PvE with a heavy focus on combat - so hopefully they'll introduce difficult enemies, like the Thargoids, for those of us who need that adrenaline pumping action lol.
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That's what's known as "straddling the fence" or alternatively "walking on eggshells around a delicate topic." Your primary take-away, if you understand the concept of reading between the lines, should be that Sandro recognizes that the timer needs to be increased during danger phases due to the fact that it's being used in a way that they did not intend. Additionally, they recognize that the community of players by and large regard using the menu log option during combat is indeed an act of poor sportsmanship.
Someday Fdev will rectify this issue by increasing the timer to an amount that actually reflects a: their intentions and b:the massive increases in shielding inflation granted by engineering in the time since the menu timer was first implemented.
yeeaaah I'm getting that recognition, I see my little asterisks I put in to emphasize the "at any point" lmao
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Nailed it.
It's pretty explicit in fact, not much reading between the lines needed.
Sandro's statement says it's acceptable at any point, but not for any reason. There is such a thing as abusing a legitimate tool and logging off, for the express purpose of saving one's ship, evading danger, or mocking other players, is clearly not what the feature is there for.
We have text chat in game too and using it is not against the rules. However, using it to threaten other players, or post their private info, most certainly is. Same premise with the menu log off. Even killing the task or disconnecting isn't against the rules if it's not done to benefit the player doing so, or to harass someone else.
Go ahead and ask Sandro why there is even a timer and if it's intended gameplay to be able to just quit to escape risky situations. If you get a response, it will probably be one similar to the stance on board-flipping...e.g. that it's not intended behavior, but they don't (or didn't) really have a way to stop people from doing it, and weren't going to punish people for it.
I think they need to merge the 2 threads, its a pain in the donkey variant to keep reviewing both
Deleted member 182079
D
The bit in bold has almost 100% been my experience. I started in Solo (playing on/off since official PC release day) and only for the last 6-12 months moved to 80% Open play. My combat rank is Dangerous but so far I have not been actively engaging in PvP, as I couldn't be bothered to min-max my ships to the extent to be reasonably successful. My ships also wear kits and various paintjobs so others can be forgiven I mean business. I really do not though as I haven't killed a single other player, let alone interdict them.
Having said that - last night something funny happened. I travelled home to Founders World in my Corvette (reasonably engineered and A rated, but not a meta-build by any means, more suited for PvE - still, about half a billion in value). A player I sometimes see at Jameson (given it's my home base) engaging in questionable actions hung around in SC (I learned to quickly scan suspect ships to see whether I might get attacked or not). While I had him targetted, he tried to get behind me, which didn't really work. He was in a Fer-de-Lance so that was surprise number 1. We circled around each other for maybe 6-7 loops, until he gave up. I then went on my way to dock at Jameson's.
A dozen or two Ls' prior to destination, I noticed a hollow square behind me and bang, interdiction. Too late. Turned out to be him again. So I thought damn, I've only got 2 rebuys in cash in the bank and my trained SLF pilot on board. Losing this will be a disaster.
The interdiction was impossible to fight so I submitted. I then thought, wait. Let's try this out and see if I get away with it, even though I imagine I'll be toast within seconds.
All pips to shields (got about 2k MJ), boost, then FA off to move into the reversky position, in order to not expose my drives. I was flying at about 370m/s and he couldn't or didn't want to catch up? He kept firing at me but didn't do any damage. I was almost 6km away until he started to catch up. By that time I could easily low-wake, boost past him and get back on my way.
This happened twice in a row, each time I got away easily. After the second time, I dropped into normal space, waited a little to see if he'd follow, then back into SC. Managed to arrive at Jameson unharmed. I'm wondering now whether me being such a wuss all this time was justified or whether this guy was just useless. He did have a 10 million bounty though so he must've been doing something right (unless he just slaughtered a lot of NPC's). All in all though, it got my adrenaline pumping and getting away so easily kinda made my day!
Good for you for using evasive manoeuvres, I honestly thought you were going to say you logged when I started reading it.
I find plenty of in game ways to avoid combat if I know I’m totally outgunned, mostly I get away, sometimes I get exploded but generally that’s only when I decide to have fun and take risks
Since "you do it all the time when needed" we can all safely assume that "you have no problem with it."
Maybe they should program NCPs to log when they are faced with a players indestructible vette farming the Rez, see if they still have a problem with it
Deleted member 182079
D
It did cross my mind but since I did almost everything now available in the game, and also got my Cutter, the last ship in the game I haven't tried yet, I feel less attached to my in-game assets
I'm still scratching my head how this was so easy. He was in an FdL which I assume was engineered up to the hilt so should've easily caught up with my Vette.
The other factor that helped was that he was on his own, and his weapons seemed quite ordinary (all MC's from what I remember). Most of my PvP encounters were quite a shocking experience as the other (organised) player(s) would use the various experimental effects available to disable/wipe out key modules and then you're just a sitting duck.
15 second timer, I sympathise with the PvP crowd, must be a bit rubbish when they just disappear. But it's in the game and it's permitted so can't really blame anyone for using it.
If it's a issue then FD can up it to 30 secs or whatever, threads like this with folk rubbing people's nose in it can make it an issue.
If it's a issue then FD can up it to 30 secs or whatever, threads like this with folk rubbing people's nose in it can make it an issue.
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Bob Lighthouse
Banned
No it was not and yes you were being a wuss, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't useless as well.