The Aegis problem; or, why Aegis was doomed from the start.

The Aegis Problem​



On the face of it, Aegis looks like a good idea; all the superpowers, working together for the betterment of humanity. What could be wrong with that?

But there's a problem. A problem at the heart of Aegis, one which has caused its colossal failure in the past, and will do so again. In fact, we have already entered the middle stage of the inevitable collapse of Aegis.

What do I mean? Well, to understand, you need to go back. Back before Aegis, to the start of...

The First Thargoid War.​


Thargoids were an impossible threat. Nothing we had seemed to be able to even slow them down, and despite all of humanity working together simply to survive, defeat looked inevitable. Humanity was throwing everything at the wall, in the desperate hope that something would stick.

Ultimately, the war was ended by the Mycoid Weapon, but not before significant advances had been made in other domains, notably the chemical compound that later went on to be the centerpoint of AX Weaponry. Once the war was over, these weapons were shuttered away, saved in case they might be needed in the future.

It was only logical that when the Second Thargoid War began, they would attempt to emulate the success of the first war. But here, there was a crucial difference. In the first war, humans were fighting for survival. There was no holding back in the face of annihilation. But in the second war, Engineers were able to quickly utilize the existing stockpile of weapons to create countermeasures that had never existed before. AX weapons, flak, and then the discovery of the Guardians; for the first time, we had some hope of defeating the enemy conventionally. As such, they tried to solve the problem via diplomacy. Rather than mandatory cooperation by an unstoppable alien aggressor, they formed the Aegis Treaty, and in doing so, planted the seeds of its own destruction.

On the face of it, the Aegis treaty makes sense. All superpowers must share all ax technology, as well as supply conventional forces to attempt to repel the enemy. Aegis will operate independently, unless at least two of the three superpowers disagree with its behavior.

Now, consider this treaty from the wiewpoint of any one superpower. If they develop some new technology which could change the course of the war, by its very nature it could almost certainly also change the course of human dominance. If the Imperials develop a shield that is immune to caustic damage, then once the war is over, if they keep it to themselves, they could freely use caustic Weaponry against enemies with dramatically outdated defenses against it. If the Federation creates a new Gauss Cannon, it can tear through Imperials as well as Thargoids. These are precisely the sorts of advances that would be hoarded and protected at all costs.

But thanks to the treaty, all ax advances must be freely shared.

So the best option from the individual level is to allow the other superpowers to make any advances, and then reap the benefits for free! Which, of course, means no superpower has any incentive to make any progress at all. What sought to cause collaboration, instead caused stagnation.

Want proof? Look at the progression of ax weaponry. In the beginning, Aegis was the primary motivator behind exactly one ax weapon - and it was basically achieved by slapping the existing AX compound, dug out of deep storage, on a conventional weapon and calling it a day. Sure, not bad giving the short timeframe available, but nowhere near a complete or elegant solution. After that, the outsourced the work to engineers, and once they had basic tools available to fight, Aegis made absolutely no progress for something like 6 years. It was in this time that their resources were gradually turned to corruption, by individuals such as Professor Alba Tesreau, who diverted attention towards their own pet projects - projects which ultimately proved fruitless.

And of course, the Superpowers couldn't do anything about it, because doing so required them to cooperate, the one thing they could never do. Freedom ultimately led to complete corruption.

It was only the complete collapse of Aegis that finally forced things to a head. With these vast resources finally freed up, we finally saw what SHOULD have been happening from the beginning, as Azimuth proceeded to make massive leaps of progress in an incredibly short time. Of course, Azimuth ultimately turned out to be a huge mistake, and Azimuth certainly had its own role to play in the downfall of Aegis. But none of that would have been possible if Aegis hadn't made itself the perfect target to start with. The very idea of a tiny, secret company causing the collapse of an organization with virtually unlimited funds and the complete support of all three superpowers is laughable. If they had been making progress at a reasonable rate, and spending their resources practically instead of devoting them towards frivolous wastes, there never would have been a weakness for Azimuth to exploit.

Azimuth's actions ultimately provided the needed incentive to trigger a new surge of scientific research and advancement. With 8 Titans bearing down on us, and Thargoid forces spreading seemingly unstoppably, we once again had the perfect, unstoppable alien threat to trigger massive progress. And, just as expected, in a matter of months we advanced human technology by leaps and bounds. What the old Aegis failed to achieve in years, the new Aegis managed in a fraction of the time, even with resources heavily strained by the massive front of the war.




Which leads us to today - where once again, we are faced with the core failure of Aegis.

Despite millions of tons of tissue samples being delivered, Aegis's progress and scientific research has, once again, slowed to a crawl - and the answer why is obvious. Once again, we've managed to gain a fighting chance. Once again, we no longer have an implacable alien adversary bearing down on us, but merely the flaccid grasp of a poorly-written treaty. Once again, Aegis has no incentive to use their vast resources for good, and every incentive to mass-produce existing weaponry via their own factories to line their own pocketbooks.

This has happened before. It will happen again. It will continue to happen until the rotten core of Aegis is finally excised. This change needs to begin now. The longer we wait, the more humans die unnecessarily, and the more we open the door to Thargoid adaptation.

The death of Aegis - and the birth of something new?​


First and foremost, the sharing of AX advances must be stopped immediately. All superpowers must be allowed and encouraged to advance and develop on their own, and in doing so, compete with one another. Nothing is a better motivator for advancement than the advances of your enemy.

Next, the core idea of Aegis - which is to say, their independence - must be heavily curtailed. While on its face it seems a good idea, it ultimately only opens the door for bad actors to unilaterally seize absolute power. Rather, a decentralized and mixed fleet - with pilots from all Superpowers - should be established, giving all pilots incentive to fight for all of humanity. Any new technology developed by the Superpowers would therefore benefit all of mankind, even as it remains firmly under their own control, and the bonds of friendship that form within these diverse squads would ensure they all work together for the betterment of all.

A team, not an army. A squad, not a legion. Not an Aegis, but a Phalanx.
 
Aegis is politics

... a decentralized and mixed fleet - with pilots from all Superpowers - should be established, giving all pilots incentive to fight for all of humanity. Any new technology developed by the Superpowers would therefore benefit all of mankind, even as it remains firmly under their own control, and the bonds of friendship that form within these diverse squads would ensure they all work together for the betterment of all.

You are naive
 
Aegis is politics



You are naive

Aegis isn't politics. Politics would imply discussion, change, progression. Aegis uses the fear of annihilation to instill dictatorial power and enrich those it empowers.

The only way to avert that is to spread that power as widely as possible, and with it, spread the responsibility for that power. Only by creating a true common interest can it begin to represent the goal it was established to fulfill.
 
I've spent probably 50% of my playtime trying to screw with Aegis in one way or another, but I'm not massively convinced by this. It sounds like this ultimately stems from the slow rate of updates, but I'd be surprised if Frontier were actually capable of making updates way faster and are just choosing not to because of Aegis's structure. The proposed change doesn't seem significantly different, either - superpowers exclusively control their own developments, but they still benefit everyone just the same? I'm also not convinced by the difference between the first Thargoid war (with INRA, a cross-superpower initiative) and the second (with Aegis, a cross-superpower initiative).

I do agree that the pace of progress should (in lore) be correlated with the danger posed. Not because of some structural flaw, just because the military-industrial complex doesn't actually want the war to reach the point where the elites might actually be at risk, just enough to keep selling guns and harvesting space oil. It's not really a problem with the layout, it's the people at the very top. So long as they're in charge, it doesn't matter what the rest of the structure looks like.
 
So long as they're in charge, it doesn't matter what the rest of the structure looks like.
That is, essentially, what this seeks to mitigate. By moving from a central command structure to a decentralized conglomerate of relatively independent wings, made up of combinations of pilots from multiple superpowers, it functionally eliminates the power at the top. Instead, that power would be split among hundreds or thousands of subcommanders. Some of them may be corrupt, but the limited scope of their power would keep such corruption in check, and we would never have the potential for the degree of total corruption seen in the old version of Aegis.

More than that, by moving technological innovation back into the hands of the superpowers, it allows them to craft their ax approach to more closely fit their existing Fleet Doctrine. It's not so much about speed of technological development, as diversity of technological development, expanding beyond the limited vision Aegis has historically never escaped.

Who knows what technologies the independent militaries could come up with, unfettered by the doctrinal limitations set by Aegis? Caustic resistant Shields from the empire? Flak multi cannons from the federation? Who knows! The possibilities are limitless.

Salvation was a madman, but he had one thing right; we need to adapt, or die. Aegis seems perfectly content to stay exactly the same.
 
Decentralization is great if Aegis were a military target vulnerable to attack or corruption, as it forces checks and balances over multiple centers of command, but not only is it not a military structure, there is so much oversight and multi-superpower governance contributing towards it that it doesn't require it. Early Aegis was a research group forced into weapons manufacturing instead of research, it's no wonder it failed because that wasn't its ' purpose. Current Aegis is relying more on ideas and contributions from others more than itself in order to get the most input for a well-detailed general consensus. Most of the technologies developed to interact with the Titans were made possible by CMDRs, which is what that general consensus is meant to represent, which is what it sounds like you are proposing.

Otherwise, I'm seeing alot of accusation and not alot of evidence being offered about corruption in modern Aegis and its supporters. Azimuth has been silent, busy keeping Salvation's brain alive I'm sure, and Sirius isn't stepping up to the plate as they're too busy being jealous of the FSD SCO development ruining their monopoly. No other group is coming up with ideas, except for the occasional independent weapon modder, and the superpowers are twiddling their thumbs hoping CMDRs will mop everything up on their own, which we are, and we're putting all our effort into Aegis because they're the only active group bothering to try to end the Thargoid War beyond sending a handful of Swanson wannabe's into the Maelstroms.

So, until I start seeing some evidence that Aegis is doing the wrong thing or are somehow profiting illegitimately from the war, all of this is preposterous libel. Which is a shame, because we thought you had turned a new leaf and grown out of this nonsense conspiracy pit. Your efforts towards pod rescues from Thor paved the way for after Indra's catastrophic failure and we found your cooperative efforts inspiring. That kind of stuff helps, this crap being spewed here doesn't.
 
Decentralization is great if Aegis were a military target vulnerable to attack or corruption, as it forces checks and balances over multiple centers of command, but not only is it not a military structure, there is so much oversight and multi-superpower governance contributing towards it that it doesn't require it. Early Aegis was a research group forced into weapons manufacturing instead of research, it's no wonder it failed because that wasn't its ' purpose. Current Aegis is relying more on ideas and contributions from others more than itself in order to get the most input for a well-detailed general consensus. Most of the technologies developed to interact with the Titans were made possible by CMDRs, which is what that general consensus is meant to represent, which is what it sounds like you are proposing.

Otherwise, I'm seeing alot of accusation and not alot of evidence being offered about corruption in modern Aegis and its supporters. Azimuth has been silent, busy keeping Salvation's brain alive I'm sure, and Sirius isn't stepping up to the plate as they're too busy being jealous of the FSD SCO development ruining their monopoly. No other group is coming up with ideas, except for the occasional independent weapon modder, and the superpowers are twiddling their thumbs hoping CMDRs will mop everything up on their own, which we are, and we're putting all our effort into Aegis because they're the only active group bothering to try to end the Thargoid War beyond sending a handful of Swanson wannabe's into the Maelstroms.

So, until I start seeing some evidence that Aegis is doing the wrong thing or are somehow profiting illegitimately from the war, all of this is preposterous libel. Which is a shame, because we thought you had turned a new leaf and grown out of this nonsense conspiracy pit. Your efforts towards pod rescues from Thor paved the way for after Indra's catastrophic failure and we found your cooperative efforts inspiring. That kind of stuff helps, this crap being spewed here doesn't.

What they're doing is obvious to everyone; nothing. They distribute credits to commanders, sell weapons developed by engineers, and that's it.

When they go for half a decade with no advances, with all resources dedicated to vanity projects that produce no results, what more evidence do you need? Shouldn't an organization as large and well funded as Aegis do more than serve as an exaggerated payroll service?
 
Anti-Guardian resistance engineering, nanite torpedoes, caustic sinks, enhanced xeno scanners, EAX missile racks, and EAX multi-cannons (credit where it's due, the Azimuth pre-engineered ones are great, but they are simply a mod, which is their forté), pulse wave xeno scanners and sub-surface extraction missiles for pod rescues from Titans, pulse wave neutralizer, intricate detailed research of the Titans and the Maelstrom's composition, detailed research of Spire sites purposes, activity, and ability to sabotage them, tissue sample research leading to breakthroughs directly impacting system war progresses, monitoring data provided to Galmap for Thargoid War progress tracking and Titan activity, unifying vision for CMDR factions to rally around and inspire to develop third-party tools and coalitions which fostered cooperation unlike anything we've seen since the battle of HIP 22460.

We don't have new guardian-based weapons because they weren't effective in the Maelstroms (until recently, with engineering) and making better versions of their original haphazard designs was a common sense decision to allow anyone to join the fight without the headache of grinding for Guardian materials and unlocking tech. Without Aegis, we wouldn't have five destroyed Titans with a sixth getting prepped for destruction within the next week and a half. Aegis has done nothing? Bad argument, no evidence, try again.

Edit: miscounted Titans destroyed
 
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Anti-Guardian resistance engineering, nanite torpedoes, caustic sinks, enhanced xeno scanners, EAX missile racks, and EAX multi-cannons (credit where it's due, the Azimuth pre-engineered ones are great, but they are simply a mod, which is their forté), pulse wave xeno scanners and sub-surface extraction missiles for pod rescues from Titans, pulse wave neutralizer, intricate detailed research of the Titans and the Maelstrom's composition, detailed research of Spire sites purposes, activity, and ability to sabotage them, tissue sample research leading to breakthroughs directly impacting system war progresses, monitoring data provided to Galmap for Thargoid War progress tracking and Titan activity, unifying vision for CMDR factions to rally around and inspire to develop third-party tools and coalitions which fostered cooperation unlike anything we've seen since the battle of HIP 22460.

We don't have new guardian-based weapons because they weren't effective in the Maelstroms (until recently, with engineering) and making better versions of their original haphazard designs was a common sense decision to allow anyone to join the fight without the headache of grinding for Guardian materials and unlocking tech. Without Aegis, we wouldn't have six destroyed Titans with a seventh getting prepped for destruction within the next week and a half. Aegis has done nothing? Bad argument, no evidence, try again.
Almost all of those aren't Aegis creations, they're outsourced Engineer work.

Go back and read the community goals. You'll find that almost everything was, at best, taken advantage of by Aegis, not actually created by them.
 
Almost all of those aren't Aegis creations, they're outsourced Engineer work.

Go back and read the community goals. You'll find that almost everything was, at best, taken advantage of by Aegis, not actually created by them.
The burden of proof is on the accuser. Aegis Research is composed entirely of engineers, no kidding they're the ones making stuff, that's the whole idea. Aegis isn't a corporation, it's a collaborative effort. They're working towards Aegis' goals, which lead to the end of the war. Is that not what you want? You want the war to continue? Why are we arguing about this? What solution to this problem you've made up do you have in mind? "Just stop using Aegis" isn't a solution, it's short-sighted and shooting ourselves in the foot.
 
Again a repetition of an older threat that OP initiated:


Whats that thing with the Aegis bashing?
 
The burden of proof is on the accuser. Aegis Research is composed entirely of engineers, no kidding they're the ones making stuff, that's the whole idea. Aegis isn't a corporation, it's a collaborative effort. They're working towards Aegis' goals, which lead to the end of the war. Is that not what you want? You want the war to continue? Why are we arguing about this? What solution to this problem you've made up do you have in mind? "Just stop using Aegis" isn't a solution, it's short-sighted and shooting ourselves in the foot.

That's exactly it; they have no interest in ENDING the war, they simply want to profit from it.

Feel free to go read the community goal text, it's all right there. But if you do, you'll find that they're almost all engineer driven, not by aegis. Here's just one example among many, if it really makes that difference/you're unwilling to look it up yourself:

Two leading engineers have revealed designs to improve the stock anti-xeno weaponry available to pilots. Liz Ryder and Zachariah Nemo have provided module modifications for many years, specialising in explosive and kinetic weapons respectively. Over the past year they have collaborated privately on the AX weapon designs introduce by Aegis in 3303, seeking to improve the efficiency of delivering a compound, hazardous to Thargoid vessels, which tips AX ammunition.

Ryder explained to The Imperial Herald: "Zach and I share a passion for weapon upgrades, and have often used this project as a way to unwind after a long week's work. But when the Taranis signal arrived and the Thargoid forces started taking control of systems, we knew we had to reveal the designs to the public. We're going to need help from independent pilots to finish off the prototypes and get a manufacturing base set up."

This campaign is for a turret-mount enhanced AX multi-cannon, to be made available in both Medium and Large sizes.

Aisling's Angels has agreed to process deliveries, with Liz Ryder vouching for the faction's commitment to the anti-xeno project despite concerns over their reputation.

The project will run for eight weeks. If the final target is met earlier than planned, the campaign will end immediately and the turret-mount enhanced AX multi-cannon will be made available at all rescue megaships the following Thursday.

See? What good is an organization that barely even cares about its core purpose?
 
Whats that thing with the Aegis bashing?
When the Superpowers made the decision to support Aegis despite its failures, I decided to wait and see. After all, maybe they'd make changes to make it better this time.

It's only now, that we've started to see the failures of the past re-emerge, that I can step forward and highlight these critical flaws again. Hopefully, BEFORE they cause as many deaths as last time.
 
It's only now, that we've started to see the failures of the past re-emerge, that I can step forward and highlight these critical flaws again. Hopefully, BEFORE they cause as many deaths as last time.
Rookie numbers compared to the number of deaths caused by members of the PF each week...
The bubble is vastly overpopulated with Feds, Imps & independents anyway, loosing a few tens of billions is barely skimming the surface of the scum!
 
That is, essentially, what this seeks to mitigate. By moving from a central command structure to a decentralized conglomerate of relatively independent wings, made up of combinations of pilots from multiple superpowers, it functionally eliminates the power at the top. Instead, that power would be split among hundreds or thousands of subcommanders. Some of them may be corrupt, but the limited scope of their power would keep such corruption in check, and we would never have the potential for the degree of total corruption seen in the old version of Aegis.

More than that, by moving technological innovation back into the hands of the superpowers, it allows them to craft their ax approach to more closely fit their existing Fleet Doctrine. It's not so much about speed of technological development, as diversity of technological development, expanding beyond the limited vision Aegis has historically never escaped.

Who knows what technologies the independent militaries could come up with, unfettered by the doctrinal limitations set by Aegis? Caustic resistant Shields from the empire? Flak multi cannons from the federation? Who knows! The possibilities are limitless.

Salvation was a madman, but he had one thing right; we need to adapt, or die. Aegis seems perfectly content to stay exactly the same.
Sounds nice in theory, but not realistic. Who's going to pay all of these "decentralised" wings? I don't think the superpowers would be keen on providing funding, equipment, and pilots, but then letting them do whatever they want. Whoever is paying them is always going to be able to control them. Certainly this wouldn't be effective on the research side, where pooling information is just objectively a good thing to avoid people wasting time making the same initial discoveries a hundred times over. Sounds bad for effective distribution of resources in general if everyone is just doing what they want.

I don't think you can make something like this "decentralised" unless you're imagining something akin to the Pilot's Federation, maybe we just replace the militaries with everyone buying and outfitting their own ships, and flying them where they want. But I don't think that in-lore the PF is actually supposed to be the one doing the bulk of the fighting, that would be the ridiculously large superpower navies. Surely we can't expect the entire force to be able to acquire the funds for top-tier military equipment by doing some basic delivery work, that's just the ingame economy being insane, or else we need some sort of mechanism to stop all the delivery drivers retiring after three runs to a life of luxury.

Plus, even if we could somehow replicate the PF to the scale needed...I mean, just look at the actual PF, they're no more immune to manipulation than anyone else. Still the same people in charge, through the medium of payouts. They wanted a war, so right from the moment it was possible to blow up Thargoids, they had the PF commiting indiscriminate destruction of Thargoids in the Pleiades through CGs and bounties. This hypothetical decentralised group would be no different.
 
The idea does seem to be based on the idea that everyone in the ED universe has some kind of anti social personality disorder and can only cooperate when forced to.

Not that you can exclude that possibility, but in that scenario, removing something that does force cooperation between the factions on any level is going to be a bad idea when they all start testing their weapons on each other.

Not that I would complain too much as combat bonds is a significant source of how my carrier was funded.
 
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