The "average players" piloting skills = ROTFL!

[Cosmos]

In fairness there are some pro commanders out there and some good ones that I've fought in my battles over the years. Not sure about the average standard..

Whilst not everyone is going to be a leet player I think much of the poor combat skills folks may have, and I see people posting all the time saying they are not that great, is down to lack of practice and engagement. I cut my teeth during early development where there was little else to do other than fight other players, at which time we were all in the same ships and there wasn't really a negative to losing ones ship. There are common mistakes I see folks making all the time when I fight them or see stuff on youtube.. Its important to also want to improve and look back upon what you did wrong in each fight.

If people do think they are a bit weak in combat then there is likely a decent path to get better. The good thing about ED is that you can improve your skill. It isn't like SC2 where you need to push out 500 action per minute to be good at the game.

So how to do it? Well firstly you need to start getting into fights with other players, great if you can organise it and maybe joining a group who do practice fights will help. If you are out on your own in the galaxy you could get a less expensive ship to practice in and go and seek out players to fight with. If someone pwns you, rather than moaning at them or on the forums, ask them if they'll do some duels with you and help you improve. I think you might be surprised.. CQC could also be another avenue but if suffers from a low TTK and the player population has fallen through the floor which makes finding games frustrating.

The Vulture would probably be a the best ship to do it in, since its not that expensive and rebuys don't cost the earth. Vipers, DBS, Couries, and perhaps even a Cobra would also work, and are cheaper still. The key thing would be to accept you are going to lose ships and not get upset about it. Allocate some funds for it.. Find other players who are better than you and fight them.. Despite all the drama about 'griefers' I think you'll find that fighting other players is also a good way to befriend them. I've had loads of scraps over the years and often folks I started out attacking and KOS became good friends. So try to get out of your comfort zone, avoiding something you are weak at will never result in any improvement.

Not sure if there is a decent combat tutorial with hints and tips.. Perhaps I could make one if people think its worthwhile.

If memory serves there is a 1v1 pvp league going on too.. You could in fact learn all you need to by dueling people in sidewinders.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Agreed on that, hardware will make a good player into a better player. What it won't do is make an average or below average player into a good player.

Hardware supports skill, it doesn't foster it.

Of course the makers of such gear will advertise otherwise

And who of us didn't feel a bit smug, when we got our first hotas or wheel and pedals for racing games. ?

That's one of the best things about it. All the gear simply adds to your enjoyment. It doesn't make you any good I play Elite to be entertained - it's a simple as that - and I'm a rubbish pilot

 

[Barmatyr]

Yeah most of the pilots are noobs, but me, i'm a badass, genius pilot and...yeah other pilot are noobs.

You know what ??? i'm a genius, the other pilot are noobs!

Another scoop !! I'm genius other pilots are bad !!! You know why i'm a genius ? Because i kill very clever and skillful AI, yeah i'm a badass. I'm so good that i will show video of me, killing the amazing AI and spit on the face of the average player !!! Yeah i'm good badass.

I should make another thread to repeat this, it is so very important and interesting subject...

That is the summary of the original post of this thread for those who forgot the subject !

 

[Kayweg]

That's one of the best things about it. All the gear simply adds to your enjoyment. It doesn't make you any good I play Elite to be entertained - it's a simple as that - and I'm a rubbish pilot

If it adds to the enjoyment, it's worth the purchase, Asp.
Besides, it can be used for more than one game once you have it.
Only trying to point out that gear doesn't buy superiority. The good thing is, i believe most people around this forum are well aware of that.
While of course gear is being discussed, there isn't an excessive amount of "gear peening" going on i think.

 

[Tarman]

If it adds to the enjoyment, it's worth the purchase, Asp.
Besides, it can be used for more than one game once you have it.
Only trying to point out that gear doesn't buy superiority. The good thing is, i believe most people around this forum are well aware of that.
While of course gear is being discussed, there isn't an excessive amount of "gear peening" going on i think.

For gear around here, I've seen mostly respect and assistance independent of a pilot's personal kit. It's usually about honest advice and experiences with whatever anyone's using, and helping pilots looking for new control schemes find the best kit for their own parameters. I think the community scores pretty high on this one.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If it adds to the enjoyment, it's worth the purchase, Asp.
Besides, it can be used for more than one game once you have it.
Only trying to point out that gear doesn't buy superiority. The good thing is, i believe most people around this forum are well aware of that.
While of course gear is being discussed, there isn't an excessive amount of "gear peening" going on i think.

Oh I completely agree with you. I've got lots of gear Elite with an X52 Pro, DK2 or Triple screen is simply great fun - and my rig is ancient

 

[terrycloth]

Ridiculous is pushing it, honestly. Elite is an easy game, way down the hierarchy of difficult games and the punishment for dying is small in comparison to other games.


Although it could certainly be tuned "Ridiculous" is a tad hilarious considering it's not even a roguelike.

In most MMOs the punishment for dying is basically (or literally) nothing? In most single player games you reload at a checkpoint, or save just before trying the risky thing, and lose something like 2-5 minutes.

It takes me longer to earn back the rebuy on a Python than I spend playing most roguelikes before I die. So... yeah. Compared to other games, it seems pretty ridiculous.

People post similarly ridiculous profit rates on various activities but I've never been able to come close to their claimed numbers doing anything but mining, and part of that is because they don't claim as high of numbers from mining as from other stuff.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

In most MMOs the punishment for dying is basically (or literally) nothing? In most single player games you reload at a checkpoint, or save just before trying the risky thing, and lose something like 2-5 minutes.

It takes me longer to earn back the rebuy on a Python than I spend playing most roguelikes before I die. So... yeah. Compared to other games, it seems pretty ridiculous.

People post similarly ridiculous profit rates on various activities but I've never been able to come close to their claimed numbers doing anything but mining, and part of that is because they don't claim as high of numbers from mining as from other stuff.

I miss old-school games where dying meant you were dead, and you had to start over.

Or at least later RPG's where death meant a decent XP loss and could de-level you.

 

[Bill Clement]

We call it pool, I thought you guys called it snooker? Or is that the weird one with the bumpers?

I steadfastly refuse to accept the concept of "skill cap", although I'd be willing to admit that might be more due to naive idealism than reality.

In the context of Elite though, I think someone would have a VERY hard time proving they are completely incapable of, say, managing their pips slightly better, or managing their throttle a bit more.

I'll fully accept someone's claim that they tried as hard as they could on a given encounter. But people are nowhere near objective enough to determine if they are actually unable to improve.

Edited to add: The game's simply not been out long enough for someone to have truely "skill capped". Skill capping implies some serious dedication. A more casual player (not a knock against casuals at all) pretty much by definition can always improve.

Snooker is played on a much larger table, (11'8" x 5'10") with plain, block coloured balls in various colours. Billiards is played on a snooker table, but only uses three balls. Pool in the UK uses identical balls and markings to American Pool, but the table's pockets are considerably smaller. American rules are different, too, but the holes are so enormous it doesn't make the game any harder!

On skill cap- In World of Tanks, like many shooters, you can sign up for third party statistical analysis software. It's a lot more fun than it sounds! The l33t unicum wannabes use it to compare e-peen, obviously! , but the tools are useful for gauging progress. Everyone plateaus. The improvements you make become fewer, they have smaller effects and eventually the graph flattens. What you're describing in ED (pip management etc) is the starting point- finding out the best way to achieve something, then drilling hard until it becomes second nature. After that comes after action analysis- taking a good look at what went wrong, after you've become competent with your control setup and avoiding it in future. Beyond that is the building of situational awareness. But every time you make an improvement, you get closer to flattening the graph. Eventually, the gains you make will be so small they won't register statistically.
The interesting thing for me isn't that everyone hits their skill cap, it's that there's such a difference between individuals. There are genuine unicums- people who win an astonishing number of games, do as much damage as it's physically possible to do, take down entire opposing teams all by themselves. And there are tomatoes- players who never quite manage to win as many games as they lose, bringing their team down with them.
I can't say whether someone posting on here has hit their personal skill cap. I'd like to think I'm still progressing, but that may be the lack of objectivity you describe. What I can say is that if someone tells me they've maxed out and are unable to improve, I'm going to believe them. I don't have any evidence that they're not telling the truth, so I'm going to accept that they've made an accurate assessment of their own ability.
Obviously, you're right about 'casuals'*- some of the people saying they'll never get any better are selling themselves short. I just have no way of telling which ones are which.

On a somewhat related note- Has anyone else noticed how some of our forum regulars have been very quiet this week? I'm willing to bet that some of the usual suspects on here got a really nasty shock this week, too. Their astonishing success against all comers, even real people, was down to using A rated end game ships against stupid as mud AI and weaker player ships. Whether they'll ever admit it is another question entirely, but they might already be close to their skill cap. Like you say, it takes a lot of time and effort- serious dedication, even- to reach the upper limit of what you're capable of in any endeavour. If the guys I'm talking about are there already, the fact that they're surprisingly quiet for a change might be because their egos have taken a serious pummelling.
Just a thought...

* Showing my age here, but it's making me giggle seeing 'casual' used to describe someone struggling with fighting. I've spent most of my adult life keeping a wary eye out for the 6.57 crew! :x

 

[Tarman]

I miss old-school games where dying meant you were dead, and you had to start over.

Or at least later RPG's where death meant a decent XP loss and could de-level you.

I played Ultima V and my mom accidentally erased 4 months of playing because she wanted to see what I was doing. I remember mapping the final underseas and caves took weeks. I get what you're saying but I kind of don't miss those days for some things.

 

[Manticore]

Unfortunately OP, you're making some assumptions that people are not trying to improve or adapt. I really held off passing judgement on the new AI, and for a while, i thought I was getting the hang of it. Yeah, died a few times, but i think those were due to the OP weapons some of the NPCs got.

I can fly FA Off, i do pip management, but i'm afraid, i'm at my max skill level after playing since launch. There is no further git gud available to me. I'm as git gid as i'm going to get. We all have our skill limits, and the AI has surpassed mine.

Will be giving the NPCs a try out tonight after the patch. Hopefully its now on average at a level where I can go 10 minutes without dying.

I have been using a new strategy to combat AI attacks around platforms. As usually mass unlocks around platforms before you leave the no fire zone I pre-stage my jump:

1. Mass unlocks.
2. Come to an all stop inside no fire zone.
3. Spin up the FSD.
4. Accelerate to engage FSD so by the time I leave the NFZ I am already in the pipe and jumping away, not giving time for anyone (AI/NPC or otherwise) to lock and engage.

It's a fun galaxy full of wonders.... and dangers.

See you out there!

 

[Roqinn]

I know that I suck at combat. I don't need anyone to tell me about it! Truthfully though, I haven't tried it out in this game yet. Way back when flight sims were just getting started, I loved it! But, back then the games were pretty simple. Also, back then I was more into the adrenaline rush of combat. That has cooled off a lot since I've gotten older.

 

[Alpha087]

I must add that with the improved AI you are "forced" to use some of the more advanced maneuver-tricks in the book.
This alone will improve your piloting. Something the 2.0 AI never could.

Not everyone is capable of performing these "advanced" maneuver tricks for one reason or another. Not everyone has fancy HOTAS peddle setups due to lack of money or desk space. Or some people might just not be as coordinated or "skilled". Forcing people really just won't work.

 

[bkrownd]

I have been using a new strategy to combat AI attacks around platforms. As usually mass unlocks around platforms before you leave the no fire zone I pre-stage my jump:

1. Mass unlocks.
2. Come to an all stop inside no fire zone.
3. Spin up the FSD.
4. Accelerate to engage FSD so by the time I leave the NFZ I am already in the pipe and jumping away, not giving time for anyone (AI/NPC or otherwise) to lock and engage.

I'm kind of puzzled about this. I have 650 hours in the game and have never encountered any hostility when LEAVING a starport or outpost. Is this related to powerplay, have you been naughty in this particular system, or is this a new thing?

 

[Darrett]

Not everyone is capable of performing these "advanced" maneuver tricks for one reason or another. Not everyone has fancy HOTAS peddle setups due to lack of money or desk space. Or some people might just not be as coordinated or "skilled". Forcing people really just won't work.

Not only that: what are these advanced maneuver tricks? Is there a tutorial? Because as far as I know, nobody has made a video or instructional showing much other than fa off turns.

 

[Zeeman]

That's one of the best things about it. All the gear simply adds to your enjoyment. It doesn't make you any good I play Elite to be entertained - it's a simple as that - and I'm a rubbish pilot

Same. I'm very good at specific things (hi speed through asteroids and canyons, hot docking) but not so great at combat. I'm capable of taking out the current AI, or knowing when to run, but I am looking to spend some time doing some PvP training, especially seeing as I play in open, short of the odd event like DW, or if someone is spamming biowaste near a station - though I have not seen that in a while.

Once I get back to my gaming rig...

Z...

 

[Stygian]

Not only that: what are these advanced maneuver tricks? Is there a tutorial? Because as far as I know, nobody has made a video or instructional showing much other than fa off turns.

Please, one google search will tell you that's utterly wrong. There are dozens of vids demonstrating, explaining and displaying advanced combat mechanics, maneuvers and technique's.

 

[myrr mac]

For what its worth I think op is a rotten bundle of sticks, and displays very low moral character. Condescending braggart.

 

[DrSeuss]

Ha, I love the conversation about pool in the thread.

As a new-coming player/casual player I am probably one of the "average players" that OP is describing. And yes, I get smoked by the NPCs regularly, but ,y personal frustration isn't really how hard they are, rather that it is very punishing to lose and try again- and I don't want to lose my pretty adder and go back to a sidewinder! please! (ahw. that was pathetic.) Really, though, I'm afraid to try (and get better at!) combat because I can't afford insurance over and over again. CQC is really the only place I've done combat but it has a tendency to not have anyone in matchmaking, although I must say it is thoroughly enjoyable when I do get into a match.

Anyways I hope that the AI stays the same. It's fine where it is, as far as I'm concerned, even though it hands my rear bits to me on a platter. I'm no game developer, either, so let FDev come up with some sort of clever new player experience mechanic that can soften the blow of insurance premiums so that us noobs can find our fighting feet.

 

[Jaiotu]

I started playing Elite back in 1985 on the Commodore 64. I've never claimed to be a great combat pilot. Wasn't one back then and I'm not one now.

The OP makes the mistaken assumption that everybody playing Elite: Dangerous is doing it for the combat and should therefore be combat skilled. My original reason for purchasing Elite: Dangerous was because it is a space trading game. In one of my previous game saves I reached the rank of 'Dangerous' but after resetting my game last March I've completely ditched weapons. I've been almost single-mindedly dedicated to exploration ever since. Combat Rank: HARMLESS / ZERO KILLS.