The AX nerf problem is that there is no obvious reason why, please explain...

[Mephane]

I made a video about this today.

https://youtu.be/6EVWuqz1MBI

I don't buy the "Thargoids have adapted" reasoning. I think FD decided to nerf the missiles and then invented some ad hoc explanation. They have a track record of doing something for purely game mechanical reasons and then throwing a bunch of half-hearted lore after it when people complain (e.g. telepresence, SLF 3D printing). I'd rather the devs come clean and say something along the lines "we did not intend for Thargoids to be killed in these numbers or even by lone CMDRs at this point, hence we had to adjust their difficulty", because of course it was to be expected, with all the content being kept secret, that some balance issues would slip through their internal betas, that's just the nature of game development and nothing to be ashamed of.

Plus, if we just play along with that reasoning, we essentially give FD a reusable get-out-of-jail-card here. If we just swallow it, they can at any time do any arbitrary change and just say "look, they adapted again". I prefer both the game mechanics and the lore to follow some sort of continuity and consistency, pulling writer's fiat and deus ex machina should be only the ultimate last resort if absolutely no other alternative is available (and as I outlined above, there is an alternative).

 

[Rob At Work]

It's all gone quiet over there (points to FDev),
All gone quiet,
All gone quiet over there

 

[Conch]

It's all gone quiet over there (points to FDev),
All gone quiet,
All gone quiet over there

Yeah negative points!!

 

[Troy_McClure]

Yeah negative points!!

Duh!..as in gestures towards!

 

[Jukelo]

It's probably because FD, as always, listens to the shouts of the pewpew fankiddies. When threads appear all over the forum with comments such as 'Can take down a 'goid in 5 seconds'........'goids too are weak'......'killed goids easily on my own'.....

These are the types of comments that FD takes notice of....& ignores the rest.

Most game makers seem to rely on the this pewpew mentality to sell their products, bringing on board PS4 & Xbox consoles players would have exaggerated this thought. The last thing FD wanted the read was 'how easy is this pewpew!'

You're playing a game from a series which was always about pewpew-ing your way to your destination. I belive your scorn for combat focused players in a combat-focused series of game is mis-placed.

 

[Leo Sagan]

This controversy makes me think a little bit about PVP actually ...

1) A pvp player finds an ultra efficient strategy // a PVE player finds an ultra efficient strategy
2) Every pvp players use this build--of-the-month cheat mode : noobz die // every PVE player use this build-of-the-month cheat mode : Thargoïds die
3) FD learns about it and overuse the nerf bat // FD learns about it and overuse the nerf bat
4) The forums turn into sodium galore // The forums turn into sodium galore
5) Go back to step one of this old and tired arms race.

Meanwhile, all the non combat players watch in disbelief while FD, *AGAIN*, released a mostly combat focused expansion, leaving them next to nothing new to play with.

Honestly FD, you're lucky there is no competition at the moment on the space sim market. I hope for your sake it stays that way.

 

[sollisb]

Thargoids.... Mini-game in a USS. LolZ

 

[Alec Turner]

I don't buy the "Thargoids have adapted" reasoning. I think FD decided to nerf the missiles and then invented some ad hoc explanation.

They re-balanced the missiles (happens all the time in MMO's) and then had the pizzazz to write a Galnet article that provided a lore explanation for the change as well. Seems pretty damn cool to me.

 

[Von Shadow]

By hacking into the weapons and nerf them against any form of target...
Bullsh** excuses are bullsh**.

Cheap and lazy way to nerf

 

[careBear1]

Meanwhile, all the non combat players watch in disbelief while FD, *AGAIN*, released a mostly combat focused expansion, leaving them next to nothing new to play with.

Honestly FD, you're lucky there is no competition at the moment on the space sim market. I hope for your sake it stays that way.

At the moment it seems the patch is for only the best combat pilots and designed to be that way.

 

[vindicator jones]

I don't buy the "Thargoids have adapted" reasoning. I think FD decided to nerf the missiles and then invented some ad hoc explanation. They have a track record of doing something for purely game mechanical reasons and then throwing a bunch of half-hearted lore after it when people complain (e.g. telepresence, SLF 3D printing). I'd rather the devs come clean and say something along the lines "we did not intend for Thargoids to be killed in these numbers or even by lone CMDRs at this point, hence we had to adjust their difficulty", because of course it was to be expected, with all the content being kept secret, that some balance issues would slip through their internal betas, that's just the nature of game development and nothing to be ashamed of.

Plus, if we just play along with that reasoning, we essentially give FD a reusable get-out-of-jail-card here. If we just swallow it, they can at any time do any arbitrary change and just say "look, they adapted again". I prefer both the game mechanics and the lore to follow some sort of continuity and consistency, pulling writer's fiat and deus ex machina should be only the ultimate last resort if absolutely no other alternative is available (and as I outlined above, there is an alternative).

Well, I dont have a problem with the thargoids adapting to our technology, it has a nice borg feeling about it, however how this change was implemented sucks, and there is no denying that.

Being biological entities I can imagine them evolving, adapting and adjusting their tactics while dealing with the human threat, it makes for a great storyline. The problem is how frontier changed things just after 4 days and offering very little in explanation other than a galnet post and listing the changelog.

This should have been built up, with more storytelling behind it.

However, if this REALLY was frontiers way just to nerf a weapon that they felt was too strong, then they have really only themselves to blame for the backlash.

 

[EdzUp]

if I was fdev I would have given the Thargoids increased resistance and hit points over a given time to a maximum level this would have made them appear to be evolving than suddenly bolting on armour and lowering the missiles.

Based that it's UTC time they could have made the whole effect happen over a week without even needing to patch the game at all.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

if I was fdev I would have given the Thargoids increased resistance and hit points over a given time to a maximum level this would have made them appear to be evolving than suddenly bolting on armour and lowering the missiles.

And you would have to rebalance other weapons against new Thargoids build. And again. And again with all possible combinations.

It is technically possible, but quite a time consuming process.

 

[Kayweg]

They re-balanced the missiles (happens all the time in MMO's) and then had the pizzazz to write a Galnet article that provided a lore explanation for the change as well. Seems pretty damn cool to me.

Hang on a sec, are you Donald Trump ?

 

[Aashenfox]

They re-balanced the missiles (happens all the time in MMO's) and then had the pizzazz to write a Galnet article that provided a lore explanation for the change as well. Seems pretty damn cool to me.

I respect you greatly Alec, you are a forum legend, but with respect, I hope you aren't serious in any kind of assertion that this was 'well done'. It just wasn't. To let such glaringly poor decision making go unchallenged is to invite it in future.

 

[EdzUp]

And you would have to rebalance other weapons against new Thargoids build. And again. And again with all possible combinations.

It is technically possible, but quite a time consuming process.

not really simply make the Tjargoids get a .x increase over time so in code use Unix time to work out how far along it would be and add it to their resistance and hit points. This would negate a patch and make them evolve as the players combat them.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well, I dont have a problem with the thargoids adapting to our technology, it has a nice borg feeling about it, however how this change was implemented sucks, and there is no denying that.

Being biological entities I can imagine them evolving, adapting and adjusting their tactics while dealing with the human threat, it makes for a great storyline. The problem is how frontier changed things just after 4 days and offering very little in explanation other than a galnet post and listing the changelog.

This should have been built up, with more storytelling behind it.

However, if this REALLY was frontiers way just to nerf a weapon that they felt was too strong, then they have really only themselves to blame for the backlash.

I can agree that it felt rushed and thus jerky and clunky.

As for nerf theory I have written elsewhere - it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Thargoids where quite challenging and they didn't fell easy.

 

[Winterwalker]

However, if this REALLY was frontiers way just to nerf a weapon that they felt was too strong, then they have really only themselves to blame for the backlash.

"Oh, no. You can blame us"
~ The Galactic (Guerilla League) Against Cruel Sports

Though we do have an ulterior - and not entirely selfish - motive;

With AX being PvP capable and with the infection risk involved of spreading Thargoid DNA all over stations and repair shops, we paid off AEGIS to cut the missiles, in favour of non-contact defensive weaponry. That is untill people can be persuaded to take infection control seriously and use AX for the purpose for which they are designed .. ie. anti-Thargoid, and NOT PvP.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

not really simply make the Tjargoids get a .x increase over time so in code use Unix time to work out how far along it would be and add it to their resistance and hit points. This would negate a patch and make them evolve as the players combat them.

That's not how balancing of combat really works. You want to add infinite dimension here basically. It is actually doable, but I yet have to see game which has pulled this successfully. Ohh, I wish ED would be first game to do that, but I am afraid it is something for space shooter to do first.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I respect you greatly Alec, you are a forum legend, but with respect, I hope you aren't serious in any kind of assertion that this was 'well done'. It just wasn't. To let such glaringly poor decision making go unchallenged is to invite it in future.

It is just different opinion. It is enough for you and others to express frustration and disappointment. FD *listens*. I hope they will make that into account for next steps in story.