The Black Market - Why is it so useless?

[RadActiveLobster]

So Obsidian Ant's Black Market video today got me thinking.


I basically ignore the black market's in the game because they are basically useless. It's very rare that I end up with stolen or illegal cargo and the few times I do have any it's normally worth so little that I can't be bothered and I just dump it somewhere.


The main reason is that the current implementation of the Black Market makes no sense. Why can I only sell to a Black Market? Why can I only sell goods that are illegal in a given system? Why is it so limited?


The Black Market could be so much more.

• We should be able to both buy and sell from a Black Market. Maybe not all goods that the commodities market has but things that would make sense for the system/station it's at.
• We should be able to buy goods from a Black Market and use them to turn in missions but there is a risk. There is a chance the mission giver may notice something is off and that the goods are stolen/counterfeit/etc... The higher your rank with the faction, the more trusting they are of you and they won't inspect it as closely. This could let us buy from a Black Market and sell/turn in on a mission for more profit but if we get found out, there's a fine, reputation hit, etc...
• Don't want to turn in that cargo Faction A wants you to take to Location B for a measly 25,000 credits? Sell it on a Black Market for 100,000 credits but your rep is going to suffer.

There is probably even more gameplay that could come from this that I haven't even thought of.


It's just a shame to see another thing in this game that could have so much more gamplay tied to it and it just doesn't.

 

[DNYI]

I like this idea

 

[Marklar_]

Yeah, black markets are pretty useless, unless you want to do smuggling. Maybe the real problem is that smuggling is so useless.

• Don't want to turn in that cargo Faction A wants you to take to Location B for a measly 25,000 credits? Sell it on a Black Market for 100,000 credits but your rep is going to suffer.

Careful, something like that would be wide open to exploits.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Yeah, black markets are pretty useless, unless you want to do smuggling. Maybe the real problem is that smuggling is so useless.



Careful, something like that would be wide open to exploits.

The Faction you betrayed should send assassins to take you out.....&/or generally earn you a nemesis or two.

 

[Heavensburn]

Good ideas for the future.

Back in 2015, black markets served a purpose. When the galaxy's economy made earning credits hard. There was a time, too, when the maps didn't tell you which stations had black markets. You worked to find them and were happy to unload stolen cargo - a few extra credits was a big deal. Like rare trading, though, forums complaints about how hard it was to get big ships made them obsolete.

But we all got Condas now. Yeah.

 

[Susanna]

Yeap. It just another one of the multitude of place holders that constitution ED. Welcome to the game!

 

[NW3]

Agreed. I have used them a few times, when I've inadvertently wound up with illegal cargo, like when a mission fails and my cargo is marked as stolen.

 

[Red Martian]

So Obsidian Ant's Black Market video today got me thinking.


I basically ignore the black market's in the game because they are basically useless. It's very rare that I end up with stolen or illegal cargo and the few times I do have any it's normally worth so little that I can't be bothered and I just dump it somewhere.


The main reason is that the current implementation of the Black Market makes no sense. Why can I only sell to a Black Market? Why can I only sell goods that are illegal in a given system? Why is it so limited?


The Black Market could be so much more.

• We should be able to both buy and sell from a Black Market. Maybe not all goods that the commodities market has but things that would make sense for the system/station it's at.
• We should be able to buy goods from a Black Market and use them to turn in missions but there is a risk. There is a chance the mission giver may notice something is off and that the goods are stolen/counterfeit/etc... The higher your rank with the faction, the more trusting they are of you and they won't inspect it as closely. This could let us buy from a Black Market and sell/turn in on a mission for more profit but if we get found out, there's a fine, reputation hit, etc...
• Don't want to turn in that cargo Faction A wants you to take to Location B for a measly 25,000 credits? Sell it on a Black Market for 100,000 credits but your rep is going to suffer.

There is probably even more gameplay that could come from this that I haven't even thought of.


It's just a shame to see another thing in this game that could have so much more gamplay tied to it and it just doesn't.

I think this is a great idea!

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

FD have said that blackmarkets are getting some attention soon™.

It would be nice to be able to buy illegal goods from blackmarkets, particularly illegal rare goods, but also extra goods that have fallen off a lorry.

 

[Schmack]

Good ideas for the future.

Back in 2015, black markets served a purpose. When the galaxy's economy made earning credits hard. There was a time, too, when the maps didn't tell you which stations had black markets. You worked to find them and were happy to unload stolen cargo - a few extra credits was a big deal. Like rare trading, though, forums complaints about how hard it was to get big ships made them obsolete.

But we all got Condas now. Yeah.

I even got a Conda with a fancier name, Corvette.

FD have said that blackmarkets are getting some attention soon™.

It would be nice to be able to buy illegal goods from blackmarkets, particularly illegal rare goods, but also extra goods that have fallen off a lorry.

You should not be able to just start using a black market. You should have to earn your way through the trust system and tips and word of mouth points you to someone who can offer you something for something. It doesn't have to be Cr. You could be offered an upgrade to your ship, something you need, a fuel scoop in a system that doesn't sell them, etc... You should be able to request an item, and eventually if you bring business to the market, you could get your item at least made available for you to "purchase" with whatever the market owner wants.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

You should not be able to just start using a black market. You should have to earn your way through the trust system and tips and word of mouth points you to someone who can offer you something for something. It doesn't have to be Cr. You could be offered an upgrade to your ship, something you need, a fuel scoop in a system that doesn't sell them, etc... You should be able to request an item, and eventually if you bring business to the market, you could get your item at least made available for you to "purchase" with whatever the market owner wants.

At least we don't have to go in shouting "I WANT TO SELL ILLEGAL GOODS!!!"

 

[Roberlin]

It would be nice to be able to buy illegal goods from blackmarkets, particularly illegal rare goods, but also extra goods that have fallen off a lorry.

Yes! And it totally got on my nerves, back when I was trading rares, that I could buy stuff (like tobacco) on the normal market that was illegal almost everywhere else. These things should be offered on the black market, then you know what you are getting into.

Elite is still sometimes referred to as a space trading game, but why bother with the trade when you are offered legal passenger transport missions, 12 ly for 1 mil cr?

(edit: I didn't know there was auto-censoring on here. Like in-game my cutter is named after a famous white whale from a nobel-price worthy book, but nobody can see it...)

 

[Taranis Dekker]

So Obsidian Ant's Black Market video today got me thinking.

I basically ignore the black market's in the game because they are basically useless. It's very rare that I end up with stolen or illegal cargo and the few times I do have any it's normally worth so little that I can't be bothered and I just dump it somewhere.

The main reason is that the current implementation of the Black Market makes no sense. Why can I only sell to a Black Market? Why can I only sell goods that are illegal in a given system? Why is it so limited?

The Black Market could be so much more.

• Don't want to turn in that cargo Faction A wants you to take to Location B for a measly 25,000 credits? Sell it on a Black Market for 100,000 credits but your rep is going to suffer.

An improved black market would enhance the trading experience somewhat, yes.

As an aside, if a faction wants you to redirect cargo mid-mission, you can ignore the request and deliver to the original location. You still get paid the original mission reward.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

Mmmmmm underboobs....*** Ähm I mean, yeah, sure, the black market needs a buff

Normally, a black market is where you buy things cheaper that are normally overpriced. So you could buy slaves for instance, but they would be flagged as illegal, yet you would be able to sell them at a normal market in another System for a higher income. Or you can buy stuff that is normally illegal, ofc.

And you should be able to sell legal goods for a higher Price to People who don't normally get Access to those goods, like legal weapons to criminals, "free" imperial slaves to shady slave Traders. But then there is a Chance (RNG) that you get a small bounty in that System, you know, like the one you get for an assault on a clean NPC.

 

[Henri]

Yeah, black markets are pretty useless, unless you want to do smuggling. Maybe the real problem is that smuggling is so useless.



Careful, something like that would be wide open to exploits.

I just exploited the daylights out of the black market and made 14 million in an hour!

 

[Zebaoth]

Black market payouts are a joke when compared to bulk trading even in a T6.
Considering one could make around 4.5 mil with a trading cutter for a single trade loop the black market payouts need to increase to pay out at least 15-20mil for a run,
might even introduce new wares for black markets for this specific high payout.
The risk also has to be increased:

1. Try to smuggle illegal goods into a station that has a black market
2. Get scanned and illegal goods are found on your ship (there should be a utility module to fake legal cargo manifest or similar)
3. Upon positive scan for illegal goods you will get fired upon
4. If killed within the system you're not allowed to use the rebuy option, insurance won't cover it, ship is gone as a measure to prevent you from further pursuing your criminal career
5. On top of that you get a 3 days / 1 week wanted status in that system depending on amount of illegal cargo found
6. During this period you'll receive occasional police interdictions and scans if you're in one of the factions systems

This would make elite dangerous again.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

1. If killed within the system you're not allowed to use the rebuy option, insurance won't cover it, ship is gone as a measure to prevent you from further pursuing your criminal career

I don't think anyone would risk his ship for this, even less if it is engineered.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

The so-called "Black Markets" we currently have in the game I see as little more than a space-based form of Pawn Shop or Cash Converters. It'd be nice, however, if using these "Black Markets" &/or getting on good terms with any local Anarchy Factions got you access to a REAL, secret Black Market, within the same system.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

The so-called "Black Markets" we currently have in the game I see as little more than a space-based form of Pawn Shop or Cash Converters. It'd be nice, however, if using these "Black Markets" &/or getting on good terms with any local Anarchy Factions got you access to a REAL, secret Black Market, within the same system.

Yeah, great idea. A bit like some of the engineers. You Need to be at least cordial to one of those local Anarchist factions in order to get Access to the black market. With higher reputation with them, you can trade higher grade goods.

It would also be nice to be able to trade with black market in the outfitting area. You could get Access to those power- or engineer-locked weapons and modules. But if bought on the black market, your ship would be flagged as illegal for as Long as it is equipped with that module.

 

[Iskariot]

So Obsidian Ant's Black Market video today got me thinking.


I basically ignore the black market's in the game because they are basically useless. It's very rare that I end up with stolen or illegal cargo and the few times I do have any it's normally worth so little that I can't be bothered and I just dump it somewhere.


The main reason is that the current implementation of the Black Market makes no sense. Why can I only sell to a Black Market? Why can I only sell goods that are illegal in a given system? Why is it so limited?


The Black Market could be so much more.

• We should be able to both buy and sell from a Black Market. Maybe not all goods that the commodities market has but things that would make sense for the system/station it's at.
• We should be able to buy goods from a Black Market and use them to turn in missions but there is a risk. There is a chance the mission giver may notice something is off and that the goods are stolen/counterfeit/etc... The higher your rank with the faction, the more trusting they are of you and they won't inspect it as closely. This could let us buy from a Black Market and sell/turn in on a mission for more profit but if we get found out, there's a fine, reputation hit, etc...
• Don't want to turn in that cargo Faction A wants you to take to Location B for a measly 25,000 credits? Sell it on a Black Market for 100,000 credits but your rep is going to suffer.

There is probably even more gameplay that could come from this that I haven't even thought of.


It's just a shame to see another thing in this game that could have so much more gamplay tied to it and it just doesn't.

I agree that currently black markets are not very interesting. I guess this is one of those game mechanics that need improvement.

Personally I can't even remember when I last used a black market. I see no need for them as I almost never pick up illegal goods. The value of these goods is so low that I can earn much more creds by doing other stuff.

We have seen several discussions and proposals about this topic and I hope that FD will eventually get around to create deeper and more interesting gameplay concerning black markets.
To be able to buy illegal stuff at black markets would be a good start.
Your ideas sound very good to me.