Merc EQC & an MX5.
General / Off-Topic The Combustion Engine is NOT dead
- Thread starter lysan
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Merc EQC & an MX5.
In my opinion more like a horses, an expensive hobby for the rich and famous, they won't vanish altogether, just like horses didn't when they were replaced by automobiles. The problem with thinking racing is that electric cars are better in almost every way for racing, the only issue the have is battery weight and that's going to change to the EV's advantage. Yes I can still see people racing ICE cars around tracks in the future in demo and niche events, but fuel will be in the double figures per liter and for everyday use, nope, that's a dead horse being flogged.
Sorry for the necro. I just wan't to report that the combustion engine is already dead when it comes to regular cars, up here in Norway.
Last years numbers for new cars were:
As long as the infrastructure is in place, buyers choose the lower cost option. I think we currently have far more charging stations, than fuel only stations.
You of course save a fair bit more if you have a home charger. Ideally the type that automatically charges your car, when electricity is cheap (at night). Combustion engine cars are only economically competitive, if you buy a cheap used one.
Interestingly the EV takeover of the market has also lead to 65% of new cars having four wheel drive. Four wheel drive seem to come with almost no extra cost on EVs, compared to traditional cars.
The electric engine is totally superior in almost all aspects. Efficiency, power delivery, rev. range, weight and maintenance cost is better. Even modest EVs have sport car acceleration. The main issue is still energy storage an energy transfere. Even the better models will have a range of only about 350 km, if you go 100 km/h on a cold winter day. Charging will commonly take 20 min on a speed charger. There is still room for improvement in this technology.
Last years numbers for new cars were:
- Petrol, 1.3%
- Diesel, 2.4%
- Hybrid, 13.2%
- EV, 83,1%
As long as the infrastructure is in place, buyers choose the lower cost option. I think we currently have far more charging stations, than fuel only stations.
You of course save a fair bit more if you have a home charger. Ideally the type that automatically charges your car, when electricity is cheap (at night). Combustion engine cars are only economically competitive, if you buy a cheap used one.
Interestingly the EV takeover of the market has also lead to 65% of new cars having four wheel drive. Four wheel drive seem to come with almost no extra cost on EVs, compared to traditional cars.
The electric engine is totally superior in almost all aspects. Efficiency, power delivery, rev. range, weight and maintenance cost is better. Even modest EVs have sport car acceleration. The main issue is still energy storage an energy transfere. Even the better models will have a range of only about 350 km, if you go 100 km/h on a cold winter day. Charging will commonly take 20 min on a speed charger. There is still room for improvement in this technology.
I have one diesel and one petrol car my self
4WD on EVs is certainly a less expensive upgrade than on an ICE vehicle but it seems to always come with unnecessary performance and more weight - therefore less range. I mean, nobody needs a Volvo SUV that will do 0-60 in 5 seconds or whatever.
I’d like to see some more sensible approaches using smaller, lighter motors to still provide 4WD for safety but keeping the performance down to like 7 - 8 seconds 0-60 which is still plenty fast enough. That reduction in weight and power will also translate to better range: maybe not quite as good as the 2WD variants but better than the current “uber fast” 4WD offerings.
I’d like to see some more sensible approaches using smaller, lighter motors to still provide 4WD for safety but keeping the performance down to like 7 - 8 seconds 0-60 which is still plenty fast enough. That reduction in weight and power will also translate to better range: maybe not quite as good as the 2WD variants but better than the current “uber fast” 4WD offerings.
Yeah many of the current crops of EV's are aimed specifically at that group that wants fast, luxury vehicles, there are a few coming out that are aimed at the relatively lower to mid end of the market but it seems most western car makers are aiming for the high profit margin luxury car buyers market at the moment.
All of those things except for the added weight, can be done in the software. Most cars have some kind of economy or power save modes.
The acceleration of EVs is mostly just due to the electrical engine giving full torque from zero revolutions. A lot of the older EVs are horribly weak a higher speeds, compared to a normal combustion car. In Norway it's common to see 10-15 year old Nissan Leafs and Mitsubishi i-Mievs going well below the speed limit, on the motorway. They do this to increase their range.
There are models with lower specs available to buy, but big and fast is always popular. The new Ford F150 lightning sold out, as soon as they were available for pre order.
Yeh - I get that but if the 2WD version has 300HP already why stick another 200HP motor on the other axle? Stick two (smaller, lighter, cheaper) 150HP motors - one on each axle - and you’d get the 4WD safety without going crazy.All of those things except for the added weight, can be done in the software. Most cars have some kind of economy or power save modes.
The acceleration of EVs is mostly just due to the electrical engine giving full torque from zero revolutions. A lot of the older EVs are horribly weak a higher speeds, compared to a normal combustion car. In Norway it's common to see 10-15 year old Nissan Leafs and Mitsubishi i-Mievs going well below the speed limit, on the motorway. They do this to increase their range.
There are models with lower specs available to buy, but big and fast is always popular. The new Ford F150 lightning sold out, as soon as they were available for pre order.
It’s very true that whilst acceleration is quick on EVs, top speed tends to be lower. And you get the best economy pootling around town.
It’s a large part of the reason I’ve been putting off making the move … you need to buy a 400 mile range car to be sure of getting, I dunno, 250 miles (?) if it’s cold and you’re driving on the motorway.
Is it possible F1 switched to lower rev engines, way back in 2013-2014, to break away from the added excitement from their screaming high rev engines of the past? When first hearing the cars, back then, it was like listening to crickets. Now, they're normal sounding and fine, but eventually, that roar will be some smooth sounding electricity.
I think eventually EV's will be almost the only thing you'd want to drive, but it'll be a few iterations down the road, yet. In terms of batteries, we're in the D-sized or 9-volt battery phase, but for cars. I think anything I have, that needs batteries, uses double A, triple A (tv remote), or C-size. The only reason I'd get a 9-volt now would be to touch my tongue to the contacts for that little jolty buzz. Otherwise, mostly not needed. though still available for one-off things (garage door openers,camera junk). I think batteries will change dramatically and we'll look back at the current layouts available and have a good ole chuckle. We're literally in the "lets stick a bunch if little batteries in" era. Eventually we'll have a whole system for being able to swap out a battery in minutes, the spent battery being processed and recycled, etc. No waiting to be charged, and they can take a beating before costing $30,000 for a boo-boo. The battery would be become one of the more reliable parts of the car, instead of the delicate things we have now.
I think eventually EV's will be almost the only thing you'd want to drive, but it'll be a few iterations down the road, yet. In terms of batteries, we're in the D-sized or 9-volt battery phase, but for cars. I think anything I have, that needs batteries, uses double A, triple A (tv remote), or C-size. The only reason I'd get a 9-volt now would be to touch my tongue to the contacts for that little jolty buzz. Otherwise, mostly not needed. though still available for one-off things (garage door openers,camera junk). I think batteries will change dramatically and we'll look back at the current layouts available and have a good ole chuckle. We're literally in the "lets stick a bunch if little batteries in" era. Eventually we'll have a whole system for being able to swap out a battery in minutes, the spent battery being processed and recycled, etc. No waiting to be charged, and they can take a beating before costing $30,000 for a boo-boo. The battery would be become one of the more reliable parts of the car, instead of the delicate things we have now.
I think it's the market that wants the performance. Last year Tesla model Y was the best selling car in Norway, with more than 18% of all cars. It's a relatively modest family car that is available with 2WD and 4WD. About 1 in every 35 sold cars has 2WD.
Not sure about this, but I have a feeling that the added weight and cost of a more powerfull electrical engine is almost nothing, compared to the batteries.
Actually, that's almost immaterial, the main difference between the Plaid model Tesla and slower models is the power transfer, the Plaid has heavy duty cabling and special software to manage it, but the limiting factor is mainly how much power you can transfer from the battery, wiring an electric motor to handle more power is trivial and most of the Tesla motors can already handle a lot more power.
In this sense it's the military that are the most interesting. We're looking for a replacement for the Land Rover Defender so long range with decent power and the contract goes to the lowest bidder.
That's very possible, however it becomes a problem when drilling and pumping oil no longer is financially viable as less is needed, there's a point where the process breaks. It's cheap now because of the mass car market, but fewer cars using fossil fuels means the cost of supplying each liter end to end increases, and if it increases to much then alternatives will be found, such as hydrogen engines maybe? All I can really say from my view point is, there will come a short time where everything changes, it will happen relatively suddenly but how far in the future is anyone's guess, I give it a max of 5 to 10 years.
Oil refining and drilling isn't dependent on cars. Oil and its refined parts are used in almost every major industry. Prices might decline but exploration and production of crude isn't going to stop. If you account for aviation and shipping and lots of heavy duty machinery, fossil fuels as well are far from finished. I do think that this'll change over time, but 5 - 10 years is a very optimistic time frame.
Hydrogen is somewhat of an alternative but comes with a host of issues, the single biggest is that its environmental impact depends on the method of production and the energy it uses. Afaik quite a lot of hydrogen today is still produced through steam cracking, which depends on some refined part of oil.
Hydrogen is somewhat of an alternative but comes with a host of issues, the single biggest is that its environmental impact depends on the method of production and the energy it uses. Afaik quite a lot of hydrogen today is still produced through steam cracking, which depends on some refined part of oil.
Plastics, lubricants, all sorts of byproducts... no way that would be gone in 10 years, but a meaningful reduction of hydrocarbons would go a long way. Not that it'll prevent substantial changes in coastal landscape and agriculture. I think we're too late to prevent hefty changes happen.
Oil is here to stay for a long while. If oil starts to drop in price due to lower demand from the transport sector, it will just start to replace coal for electricity production and industrial use. Heavy transportation, aviation and shipping are many years away from going electric. They will need oil.
I think we will get fuel for our ICE cars, for a long time yet.
The question is more if anyone will bother to make IC engines, for consumer cars. Electric cars are vastly simpler and will inevitably get cheaper than ICE cars. I read somewhere that a typical ICE car has about 10,000 moving parts. The electric has about 150.
We will get to the point where it's more economical to have an electric car that you charge from a diesel generator, than to have the IC engine in the car.