The Dangerous Games - Who's who?

A good attempt at answering a difficult question! But I'm still not quite clear on something. Maybe AI are no longer a good example for this question, but some of their coalition partners probably are. In your society, where everyone's opinion is valid and should be accommodated (otherwise they become the downtrodden little guy) how do you manage those people who disagree with your ethos and react against it, a "troublemaker"?

In terms of powerplay, if your power doesn't want to be coercive, will you ever try and undermine another power?

Sorry again, I have been working on a farm this morning so sorry for the late response.

As i said before I am an Internal Affairs kind of guy, I don't tend to get into any Foreign Affairs, however I will do my best to explain what it means to be to look after the little guy and how we will deal with troublemakers.


((several names are removed for the sake of anonymity))


When PP just started I was a little guy, all on my own. I didn't have all these player groups that were already in place. So when I was asked by a now good friend of mine to help him administrate a new format for talking with the PP players I jumped at the opportunity to help out in the expanding universe. In becoming a co-owner of this new format I was able to have some new friends and contacts in the bigger player groups. it wasn't until the second week of PP did I have a really awesome idea to help boost the fighting capabilities of my power. So I brought up the idea of FOO (Forward Operating Outpost), to one of the bigger groups in our power. They subsequently laughed me off and called me insane. I too was disenfranchised, feeling that my ideas were stupid and didn't have a place. Two weeks later that same group proposes the idea of a FOO and calls the idea their own. Their FOO didn't work for a lot of reasons but mostly because it was too close to the action (when i proposed the idea the system in question wasn't too close to any of the systems owned by any of the other powers). I felt disenfranchised all through out the PP until I found Pileus Libretas and I found a group of people that help each other and encourage free thinking without laughing in your face. Yes we do have arguments sometimes, and yes we do get mad but we know that each of us has their own worth in the Co-operative. Its a shame I didn't know about making coalitions until after the games themselves started (I had finals and school stuff). Otherwise I would hold out a hand of peace and co-operation to each and every group in this fight for popularity and form a Coalition. Because the only way for a bunch of little guys to have any influence with the Big boys is to come together.


Don't get me wrong I am not a peace loving hippie. I usually only make the offer of peace once, if you spit in my face you're written off completely. However I am not unreasonable, if someone simple refuses without spitting in my face I always keep the hand of peace open if they want to take it. I am not blood thirsty. I do not have noble visions. But I can empathize with the little guys, and I am at their side if they need me to be.


For trouble makers we would undermine anyone that spits in our face and tells us how insignificant we are compared to them. It is true that we have low numbers but our hearts are bigger and contain more fire than a group with a lot of members. Large groups get to hide their cowards, small groups cannot afford to have any cowards. Everyone in the Co-operative is a fighter. There is even a militant and blood thirsty group in the Co-operative known only as the Vindictae, who use deception and murder to achieve their goals. They would most likely be the group lore wise that would be undermining trouble makers. They don’t have a seat on the council but their power and immoral tactics make them a force that drives the militant parts of the Co-operative.
 
Well, it's er.. very nice? We can stick it to our refrigerator or something?

Felix has said that he's disappointed with your colour co-ordination skills, and another critic has mentioned that "you can barely see the green." I think we're going to have to mark that a C-

I'll pass on your criticisms to the vandal :)
 
A few corrections:

1: We aren't impartial. We're neutral as a group to game play factions, meaning, anyone from any game play style or preference is welcome. We are absolutely biased in favor of our own internal group's interests, however.

2: This is for a Power Play event, which is absolutely not about fair play where everyone starts on equal footing.

3: As a private group, we can make whatever rules we want. Members can reference them at any time, and any questions they have can be directed at any admin. Furthermore, folks are free to come and choose as they please.

Glad that you have clarified that the EDC is in fact Achenar Immortals whom setup an Elite page as a clandestine method for recruitment and propaganda... so we can see quite clearly that AI are based around the manipulation of the masses. Place your votes carefully people you can see what lengths they will go to. Abuse of power, misrepresentation, misinformation and skulduggery.

Very clever.. hardly ethical though
 
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SEPP are a serious contender, so watch out. Going to get the explorers vote and trust me, when explorers set their minds to something, they wipe the floor with everyone else :)

I think Distant Worlds proved that?

Anyway, here's SEPP's promo vid, check it out

[video=youtube;Y7z5EOzPA2E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7z5EOzPA2E[/video]
 
Glad that you have clarified that the EDC is in fact Achenar Immortals whom setup an Elite page as a clandestine method for recruitment and propaganda...

Very clever.. hardly ethical though
That is not what I confirmed. The EDC and this structure has existed well before the creation of the Achenar Immortals group. We have several sub groups who we have backed on our page since January, 2015.

If you have further questions about how our organization works, I'll be happy to answer. However, I kindly request you refrain from making assumptive misrepresentations about our group. Questions show you're interested in the facts. Statements like the one I've quoted here makes it appear as though you're only interested in making a point regardless of the facts.

Thank you!
 
Glad that you have clarified that the EDC is in fact Achenar Immortals whom setup an Elite page as a clandestine method for recruitment and propaganda...

Very clever.. hardly ethical though

No. Elite Dangerous Community predates the Achenar Immortals by some considerable margin. They are not equivalent. The EDC is made up of many subgroups representing variously Feds, Imperials and several Independents.

Only the AI group stepped up for the wildcard. As a part of EDC. Many EDC members have like or affection for AI through their own experiences and may vote accordingly but make no mistake, this is a free vote with everyone making their own choices.
EDC can't make 11,000 people vote or dictate their choices.
 
Please please not another Imperial unity power clone or another fed one.

Is there any among you who are different and preferably a little bit shady?
 
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http://elitediplomats.com/


Through setting strong economic foundations for Mahon; through growing Alliance Minor Factions and increasing their influence; through fair negotiations with independent Player Groups; through directly supporting Alliance groups with muscle and strategic insight; through our words and our deeds we support the rights of independent peoples to self-determination.

“Diplomats With Teeth” – Rise to Power Interview with AEDC

Question 4: I understand that if you get your Power, you won’t have direct control over it. Keeping that in mind, where do you think you will stand politically? Are there current Powers you think will be likely friends, or enemies? Are there particular Powers that you think are close in ethos or politics to your own?

RealDB: Obviously our Power would consider Edmund Mahon and his supporters friends and allies. As such, and being Alliance, we do our best to remain neutral in others’ affairs. However, with the recent developments and difficulties with the Federation leaders, our suspicion is that they will not be our friends. We aren’t sure we want to call them enemies, because we would still wish for a peaceful resolution to any disagreements.

In other matters, we would stand for economic and political freedom much as the Alliance already does. Our desire would be to continue bringing these things to as much of civilized space as we can. Actually, with regard to freedom, our lady Victoria Wolf VI is a staunch supporter of the freedom of all sentient life to determine for his/her/itself how to live. She strongly believes in supporting freedom that does not step on the freedoms of others.

---------------------

In this interview I really like this part about your group. You're supporters of individual rights, self-determination with economic and political freedom. [up] :cool: :) :D
 
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For the record, I'm flattered that someone attributed to us the foresight to set up a Facebook community in 2014 leading to the creation of 13 subgroup entities, including the Immortals, all so that we can eventually have a keyword of 11,000 automatons to rally a vote for a contest only recently announced.

Sadly, we possess no such capabilities. :(
 
I am enjoying the civil discourse - thank you. Also, thank you to those who are giving me all the Rep points - much appreciated :)


A few good points were raised. Allow me to comment on some:

** QUESTION: WHY Imperial and not Independent?

** ANSWER:

Commander, may I salute you for a great question. Heck, if you were to go to LaveCon, I'd buy you a pint for that. I have always seen us (Achenar Immortals) as a pure Imperial Group - which we have been.

But your comment struck a chord in me. I might ask @Zac if it is possible at this late stage, to investigate this. Being an Independent has never ocurred to me, but as you rightly point out, with such a diverse group of people in the coalition, it makes sense.

The Border Coalition, I believe is independent, and as some say, there are "too many" Imperial groups - I answer this below. But another Independent might not be bad. It is a rather big galaxy.

** QUESTION: WHY the SDC?

** ANSWER:

This seems to be the biggest gripe people have about this coalition.

One cannot forge ahead in an online game without taking real world personalities into account.

For absolute clarity, I have on occasion spoken out against SDC. I have seen videos of them invading Mobius and can see in my head still that unsuspecting Commander in his T-7 being slaughtered by a rail-gun equipped FDL. It made me physically sick. Especially as I generally prefer Private Groups because 1) I am a really bad combat pilot and 2) RL stress is just too much to have adrenaline flowing at night and fighting in Open.

HOWEVER, there are often groups - and history is full of this - who feel disenfranchised and therefore do "bad" things in order to be heard. Again, my INFP diplomatic personality has opened up the door to sit and listen to SDC. And, to be honest, I understand their complaints - that actions in Private and Solo affect the Open Universe without them having control over it. Yes, there is a bit of "You play my way or not at all" involved, but on the whole, I think they make *some* valid arguments.

The reason they're in this coalition, is that perhaps by giving them a voice, we can ALL find a way to work together. Like a troubled teen, with some responsibility and being treated with respect, they might see that they can have a place in the galaxy without resorting to those tactics. It might work, it might not. But I guarantee you that by sidelining them, this will only get worse. Taking the SDC in was a risk, and I knew we'd get flak over it. But I have been talking about Unification since the get go, and sidelining groups is not what Unification is about.

To SDC members who read this - please do not see this as being condescending or even approving of what you do. You make fair points, and it is time we all discussed a viable way forward.

On a personal note; Given my poor combat skills, I'd gladly have an SDC "umbrella" when the Storm comes... ;)


** QUESTION: Diplomatic Incidents

** ANSWER:

Ultimately, a captain is responsible for the actions of his crew, so this falls on me. Even bigger the slight that I have taken this long to address it.

For a start, I apologise unreservedly for any and all diplomatic incidents.

I have highlighted before that I am partly to blame for not always being as well-informed as I should be. There are reasons of course, but I don't want to get into that. Additionally, through my actions and some intense RP, we have a rather committed and loyal group of people, with a fervour to be part of something great.

I would suggest that these incidents, at least as far as I have followed, have been due to a passion that burns like the star of Achenar. Perhaps, like the SDC, some of those involved have done or said things out of anger at not being heard or understood.

There will be no "dealing" with anybody, when all they wanted to do was to stand up for their side in my absence. For that I am to blame, which is why I decided to step into the firing line here.

In life, I am a big fan of 2nd, 3rd and more chances. I would respectfully ask the council here to overlook, or at least pardon the mistakes we made that were born out of passion and let us work together

** QUESTION: Why 5 Imperial powers?

** ANSWER:

Great question. I think I spoke to this earlier - but I do believe we cover enough of the spectrum to displace Patreus (whom I don't like), Aisling and her heretical non-Imperial Slave nonsense and Winters' "I am the law". I have often been "insulted" by being called a Carebear like Aisling. We could easily displace all 3 ;)

That aside, it is a fact that I have observed in the 11,000 member EDC group that a large proportion of members are Imperial. I do not have statistics to hand, but 5 out of 10 would not seem too much of a stretch. Is it not a good thing to cater for general demand?

** QUESTION: Where do we stand on Slavery

** ANSWER:

ABSOLTELY AGAINST IT! Well, against "Slavery". But Imperial Slaves are an entirely different thing. I have posted about this on Reddit, Mr Brooks himself has said a few words, and I would challenge commanders to please go read up on the lore of Imperial Slaves. Ultimately, I think it is a good thing. It gives people the 2nd and 3rd chances I spoke to previously and gives them a way to work back the mistakes they made. According to lore, the Federation just uses machines to do work instead. I believe that by making a machine do the work of a man, you take a lot away from that man (or woman). Also, CMDR Elenar did spend several years as Imperial Slave according to my own lore, which you can find on the Facebook EDC LoreWeavers page. I encourage you to read this.

I hope this has answered some of your questions. I again thank you for this opportunity and for the respectful manner you have treated me thus far.


I know he;'s gone for the night but I'm going to slowly pull this apart anyway since it's the sort of thing that is dangerous if left undissected.


POINT 1: SDC, Griefing, and poor sportsmanship and treatment of the community by the factions in the AI.

First off their leader's approach to the SDC, and the UGC's fiasco is a nill and a null.

"Not my problem, I'm sure they'll get better if we give them what they want" doesn't work for small children, and it doesn't work for people who turn threads into salt mines and tantrums when things don't go their way. I want my question answered, not dismissed. The SDC and various other Murder Hobo "Open Play is for Losers" factions in the AI coiliition are part of your group, it's been demonstrated that there's no solid leadership or direction for the group as an OOC whole yet and as such, while the lore is nice, the lore means nothing if it's an OOC front for allowing people to be jerks under a facade of officialism.

You're asking us to treat adults, who should be functional empathetic and rational human beings, as children, and to not correct them and tolerate behavior until it magically solves itself. This is a terrible idea.

If you and your AI arn't going to handle what is a demonstrable and documented pattern of poor behavior, poor public behavior, and greifing as defined by FD's own user terms, than you're tactically admitting that the AI is going to allow people to be Jerks and EULA defined Griefers who will bully and harm people who arn't in the same marching order as them. This is a bad thing to have in a game that was designed to have be as open or closed to interaction as a Player wants. Not a player group, not a faction, not a group of people. The individual.

You need to either admit you have no control over your group, which seems to have been proven over the last few days, or that you're willing to be an actual leader in the faction and do something. If you don't have that sort of leverage you're not the face of the group, the griefers and self declared Carebear Killers are.

This is not a good thing and you should be worried, as a player and a part of the group, since right now you're coming off as toothless. The poor behavior of your faction hasn't been limited to this thread and as such your lack of control/your faction's lack of control isn't limited to just the last week either. This is a consistent, months long documented series of abuses that has gone unaddressed and as such sits squarely in the AI:C's lap.


TLDR: Your answer boils down to a question dodging "Nah, I'm not going to deal with this and the AI will continue to use griefers and rule breakers to push their agenda and goals". This is a terrible stance and should be easy grounds for anyone reading to avoid voting for this sort of behavior.

Point 2: Empire Cannibalism.


You flat out admitted you'd be fine destroying one of the existant four Imperial powers when the collapse mechanic goes in to help secure your place. This should Worry Ald/Aisling/Torval and Patreus players.
This would be a good idea but:
When combined with what's seen above, which is a demonstrated mindset by the faction as a whole (their leader has no control it seems) of "Screw these guys we'll try and take what we want and be terrible human beings while doing it." I can't trust a faction with the current kind of behavioral record and current complete lack of leadership control to participate on an even LARGER scale than it already is.

It didn't end well with the UGC, I see it ending even worse and with even less decorum when they try the same method in the macroscopic area of Power Play.
Point 3: How does a faction with no actual in game faction get into PP?

In short? They don't.I should have brought this one up earlier.

Given the consequences of the AI faction's poor behavior, worse gameplay, and catastrophic scattered tactics, they no longer have an actual faction in control of anything in the Game Sim.

It proves they're bad at the background sim (something that was and is a qualifying point to get into the Dangerous Games). As a whole faction, they've already flunked the course to get into the Dangerous Games, in a painfully ground-smashing manner, and their leader hasn't and won't be doing anything to stop the flow of poor sportsman ship that followed, as seen above.

More reason not to vote for this faction. Bad at the game. Bad at social interaction. Bad at acting in a unified and well mannered group. I doubt they can get the Ai faction back into the sim before Tuesday unless the UGC lets them, and that's not happening because the AI is still, at this moment, attacking the UGC areas while decrying 'YOU ARE BULLIES"

In Conclusion:

Elenar's welcome to try and walk back these points if they want, but I'm going to expect action and effective leadership, not 'Not my problem let them do what they want" stances to prove me wrong on these points. Words mean nothing, shattered faction behavior, public salt-mining, and losing your presence in game are far more weighty. I expect not to get an actual answer from the AI players/leadership that isn't Elenar, especially since Jugs ragequit the contest already.

However: I can hope otherwise.
 
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Please please not another Imperial unity power clone or another fed one.

Is there any among you who are different and preferably a little bit shady?

I had high hopes when an Independent Anarchy PMF qualified, but to find out that somehow they are now Space Police is enough to just uninstall the game and give up on humanity :(
 
I had high hopes when an Independent Anarchy PMF qualified, but to find out that somehow they are now Space Police is enough to just uninstall the game and give up on humanity :(


You might want to watch for my interview on Omega Black coming up.

They're a PMC coalition who are declared independent, not empire/fed/Alliance, and have darker tones with what SEEM to be good reasons behind the concept. I'm trying to get their leader on the horn since AI:C seems to have peaced out.
 
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Yep. If we get another clone of what we have already I will pull my hair out.

I have already noticed black omega and am looking forward to what they have to say.
 
I had high hopes when an Independent Anarchy PMF qualified, but to find out that somehow they are now Space Police is enough to just uninstall the game and give up on humanity :(

We're not space police. It's supposed to be Co-operative, but it gets thingied as Cop rather than Coop. Which at least saves us from chicken jokes. (which is handy given our 'flamenco phoenix' logo)

Anyway, Felix was inspired and made this (See Felix's post below mine)
 
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A little something that was posted to our discord server
http://i.imgur.com/YofWeAw.png

As the designer of the GalCop logo, I have a few suggestions: the color coordination makes it very hard to see and the Kumo Crew logo blends in with the Phoenix too much to be effective. Also the removal of the "GAL" and replacement with "ANTI" is too precise and robotic to fully resemble vandalism. I've revisited your initial idea with a more effective color triad as well as made it look a little bit more authentic as something a potential vandal might spray up in a jiffy. Enjoy!

kumo_w.png
 
Why, then, would we seek to pivot from a small cooperative to a potential Wildcard candidate vying for a chance to become a power? Because something is missing from Power Play. In fact, something is missing from Elite: Dangerous entirely. There is no respect for the life of an average galactic citizen. Within Power Play we have a focus on individuals who have tremendous influence in the galaxy and use that influence to further their own power. Yet, if you evaluate each Power's ethos, you see that each power is coercive. Some outright kill and imprison their opponents. How many thousands die every week in crime sweeps or protests or resistance pockets? How many are taken prisoner, reeducated, or marked as slaves? And it doesn't stop there. Some powers prefer to govern through use of propaganda. Some powers use contracts and bureaucratic red tape to keep control over system economies. Some powers provide aid packages on condition of support. All share one common denominator: coercion. As a cooperative, Pileus Libertas is opposed to the very idea of coercive power. Individuals should decide how and when and to whom they contribute. As the galaxy changes with the addition of a new Power, we at Pileus Libertas believe a non-coercive Power should become part of the mix.
............
What Zac writes about us is true. We are small. We prefer to keep our nose to the grind stone and focus on doing work and coordinating with players. It's why many don't hear about us and why many may not expect much from us. But let me close with our minor faction's seal and the words which adorn it: Liberum Arbitrium, free will. As a cooperative, we respect the idea of free will and we think it's about time that there was a Power in game that upheld that same kind of respect.


I like that your group is opposed to coercion and that individuals should decide how and when they want to contribute. Your support for free will is honorable and virtuous as well. :cool::) [up]

This makes it very different from all the oppressive, coercive groups and powers in-game.

CMDR Quade, you should promote your group more and maybe show some screenshots, art. You need to be more active and get supporters to help.
 
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I like that your group is opposed to coercion and that individuals should decide how and when they want to contribute. Also your support for free will. :cool::) [up]

This makes it very different from all the oppressive, coercive groups and powers in-game.

You should promote your group more and maybe show some screenshots, art.

If they show up in the thread again, I've got some questions ready for them +w+
 
We're not space police. It's supposed to be Co-operative, but it gets thingied as Cop rather than Coop. Which at least saves us from chicken jokes. (which is handy given our 'flamenco phoenix' logo)

Anyway, Felix was inspired and made this (See Felix's post below mine)

Galactic Cooperative? We need a third Major Faction to give everyone a choice if they want to stand up to the Federation or Empire.

As the designer of the GalCop logo, I have a few suggestions: the color coordination makes it very hard to see and the Kumo Crew logo blends in with the Phoenix too much to be effective. Also the removal of the "GAL" and replacement with "ANTI" is too precise and robotic to fully resemble vandalism. I've revisited your initial idea with a more effective color triad as well as made it look a little bit more authentic as something a potential vandal might spray up in a jiffy. Enjoy!

http://radio.entropy101.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/kumo_w.png

ITS BURNING MY EYES!!!
 
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