The Dangerous Games - Wildcard Community Goals
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
Indeed. Powerplay participants are not in it for the money. In fact, it is a sure way to ensure that you never accumulate significant funds!
Well, you really shouldnt change your plans because ONE guy calls for a hardcore mode. I think there should be reasonable profits, otherwise none will care about these CGs and its no fun (3 weeks...). Its enough if there is no rewards for the CG tiers already, the rest should be profitable.
Also, if all the CGs are at the same station, I'm slightly afraid that the one first in the list will win...
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I'm not calling for hardcore mode. I think it should be a fair representation of what the player groups will experience when they finally participate in powerplay.
I am not convinced that loose knit groups or BGS specialists will want to fast track fortification week in, week out for an extended duration of time. Providing them with scenarios that do not provide an equivalent to powerplay would be a mistake in my opinion. I have been part of powerplay since cycle 1 and have not participated in a Community Goal for the whole of that time - mostly because of the relentless fortification/prep/expansion grind.
I am not convinced that loose knit groups or BGS specialists will want to fast track fortification week in, week out for an extended duration of time. Providing them with scenarios that do not provide an equivalent to powerplay would be a mistake in my opinion. I have been part of powerplay since cycle 1 and have not participated in a Community Goal for the whole of that time - mostly because of the relentless fortification/prep/expansion grind.
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Which group are you affiliated to or do you support?
I disagree. Not everyone is space rich. This is supposed to be a popularity contest. With zero profit only the hardcore, who care so much they are prepared to make a loss, will take part. I'm pretty sure FD want as much of the community as possible to take part. I agree with there being no tier rewards but activity profits need to stay as normal so that everyone from the triple elite billionaire to the newbie in a Sidewinder is encouraged to take part.
And there is a fundamental problem as to how you achieve zero profit.
Trade is pretty easy to adjust to close to zero. You just set the market price to as close to the local average as possible. But how do you setup a bounty hunting CG to yield zero profit? Even if you could the bounty hunter still gains combat rank for the kills, while the guy hauling 20,000 tonnes of Whateverum gets no acknowledgement for the effort other than a "thanks for your help".
I do understand why these kind of suggestions are made. Some people want the dangerous games to reflect powerplay more closely. A competition decided by the dedication and commitment of factions' supporters is a good way to test the powerplay chops of the contender. If you want a competition to find the group that will be best at playing powerplay then that's probably the way to go.
I don't think that's what this competition is about. I've never played powerplay, I may never play powerplay. I've never had a reason to care about it. But I am interested in the Rise to Power. I'll be taking part in the CGs so long as it doesn't mean hauling thousands of tonnes at an operating loss. It gives me, the unaligned player, a feeling of influence in the game. The competition, in and of itself, gives me content. The winning group will be the one that generates the most player involvement with that content. That seems like something you should be looking for in a new power: A group that can get people involved in working with others and gives them something to care about in the game. That, to me, is more important than who would be good at powerplay. And maybe at the end of it I will want to play powerplay: I'm pretty sure that is what FD is hoping for.
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So you basically ask for the Wildcard Games and Dangerous Games to be unprofitable, although you do not plan to compete in them?
This seems to be a very easy demand. "Make life miserable for other people please, because reasons".
That's a very interesting point. We just cant tell currently how much PP experience the different groups (or CMDRs within) have. Do they really know what they are letting themselves in for? Are they setting themselves up for a spectacular fail once the new power is created? But this is probably derailing the thread a little.
My first question would be, if you have never played power play, why would you be interested in who becomes the newest power?
The goal of this competition should be to find out what new power has the best chance of succeeding.
The last thing Power Play needs is the only new power to be added in a year to fail because it got a lot of popular support from players who are willing to help when they make a profit, but when the cold hard realities of preparation and fortification expenses hit home, there's no player support.
The reality of Power Play is it costs 10000 cr per ton of preparation and fortification.
Last week the average amount of Fortification and Preparation delivered by the 10 Powers was over 3 Billion cr worth.
That's what it takes to be a Power.
PP requires an Anaconda or Cutter and bags of cr, its basically end game content.
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Who says he wont be competing in them?
I'll be helping out one of the competitors, and I'm also in the Kumo Crew.
I dont.
After all, Powerplay offers a 50 million weekly paycheck. Achievable by hauling or shooting stuff.
Payout will determine participation.
Make a loss: Only the most hardcore will compete. Even group members that are casual will not be able to take part, because they will need to get funds sooner or later.
Make 0 profit: only group members will compete. Some allies for street cred in the first week, then less and less.
Make profit: the more profit, the more people will come. The more people in the systems, the more chaos and fun ensues. With pirates, bounty hunters, etc.
I think one thing to consider is that the group who wins will have done so because they were able to amass significant support. Presumably the winner will have help not only from within their ranks, but also independents and people who were drawn away from their existing power. Once they win they will be like any other power, and people (probably including the ones who helped them win, as well as any new players who are interested) from outside that group will also become part of the power. The group does not need to be PP masters for the eventual power to be successful--though obviously it would help, and maybe those people have an edge anyway because of their practiced coordination.
And as for the profit angle, I'll just mirror what has been said a couple times. It shouldn't make anyone a billionaire, but it should also, at least, cover costs. If it doesn't, it gives a way unfair advantage to those groups that have tons of disposable income simply because they've been playing longer. This isn't a Game to honor rich veterans, it's about contesting the ability to garner and mobilize support--and should start on equal footing as far as resources are concerned, if we care about fairly seeing who rises to accomplish that task.
Besides, the game has always been about making money, and more importantly, IMO, who you are supporting while making it. No reason to stop that now.
And as for the profit angle, I'll just mirror what has been said a couple times. It shouldn't make anyone a billionaire, but it should also, at least, cover costs. If it doesn't, it gives a way unfair advantage to those groups that have tons of disposable income simply because they've been playing longer. This isn't a Game to honor rich veterans, it's about contesting the ability to garner and mobilize support--and should start on equal footing as far as resources are concerned, if we care about fairly seeing who rises to accomplish that task.
Besides, the game has always been about making money, and more importantly, IMO, who you are supporting while making it. No reason to stop that now.
Some small gains to cover costs would be appropriate, but the focus should really be on the groups drumming up support for their causes.
They have put a lot of time and effort into making lore, pics and vids to promote themselves and motivate their supporters. Now's the time to put it all to the test and prove that it wasn't all just window dressing!
Quoted for cold, hard truth!
They have put a lot of time and effort into making lore, pics and vids to promote themselves and motivate their supporters. Now's the time to put it all to the test and prove that it wasn't all just window dressing!
Quoted for cold, hard truth!
No, I will be participating to push forward whoever I think is the best candidate.
I have had 50 cycles of powerplay to know what it takes and I am yet to be convinced that paying people to participate is the best approach.
I don't think the reward structure is up for discussion folks, seems like a waste of time. I'm happy with the current structure described by FDev, seems balanced: neither really rewarding nor money losing.
Should be encouraging enough for unaligned pilots to join and create fun content as inclusive as possible, without making it profitable to the point the outcome is determined by credit income alone, which is what it is about and what they want to achieve. A lot of us are not stranger to PP, but this is not just an event for the groups involved but also for the wider community which (hopefully) will create much chaos in the involved systems, so FD wants to achieve some balance. It's just flavours of grinding, but if those flavours end up creating IN-SPACE content and encounters all the best.
I'm more concerned about it all being balanced for all contenders, and the CG's themselves being well designed instead of boring and bland than anything else.
Should be encouraging enough for unaligned pilots to join and create fun content as inclusive as possible, without making it profitable to the point the outcome is determined by credit income alone, which is what it is about and what they want to achieve. A lot of us are not stranger to PP, but this is not just an event for the groups involved but also for the wider community which (hopefully) will create much chaos in the involved systems, so FD wants to achieve some balance. It's just flavours of grinding, but if those flavours end up creating IN-SPACE content and encounters all the best.
I'm more concerned about it all being balanced for all contenders, and the CG's themselves being well designed instead of boring and bland than anything else.
Most people who participate in powerplay properly do not become rich.
If costs are to be covered, they should replicate the small amount you get for handing in fortifications.
I'm mostly interested in the competition and the player activity it can generate both in and out of game. I enjoy the creativity and cut of thrust of the campaigns and I like doing stuff in space with lots of hollow squares showing on my scannner and Commanders chatting in local..
This sums up my thoughts on profit making in Wildcard CGs:
As to my interest in who becomes the new power: I will be supporting a group that makes it most entertaining for me and who I think will shake up PP in the most interesting way. Maybe that group will make me care enough to have me actually start playing PP.
That sounds great to me. PP right now seems pretty static. A new power coming into the game, shaking up the stagnant political stalemate and then getting eaten up and spat out by more experienced rivals would make for great gameplay. No power has failed yet. It would send shockwaves around the PP scene if one did. I know that most people discussing this here have a horse in the race and want their power to win. But, powerplay itself will benefit from the additional power no matter which of the contenders win. As a neutral my decision is about who I think is going to provide myself and others like me with the most entertainment value.
What really bothers me is that the people who are going to participate in the open, thus making the galaxy richer and more interesting (and alive!) place, are going to have problems, while solo and private group people will face no danger at all despite not contributing to anything but numbers.
This is sad, sad, sad.
This is sad, sad, sad.
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Small suggestion we are considering.
We're thinking about making the scoring based on tiers. So instead of where you place, instread it's what tier you get.
It might not seem a huge change but it should allow for groups to see their progress easier over the 3 weeks and their own scores better.
We're thinking about making the scoring based on tiers. So instead of where you place, instread it's what tier you get.
It might not seem a huge change but it should allow for groups to see their progress easier over the 3 weeks and their own scores better.