The death of the fighter pilot.

[edgar]

An automaton mimicking the movements of the pilot in the drone cockpit analog back on the mother ship? (although I'd prefer if the canopy were frosted or made opaque)

I'd prefer that too. Or if the body's image "flickered" to suggest it is a hologram or something.

It just seems very strange to be told "its all done by telepresence!" when my own eyes tell me otherwise, and no lore explanation is offered to plug the discrepency.

Head-canon handwavium it is then, in the meantime.

 

[Iskariot]

The way I see is that fighter pilots don't really die, they just decide your a bad captain/risk who almost got them killed, and they don't want to play with you anymore. Once their pod gets rescued, they change their name and move to a distant system.

I think that is the best approach to the mechanic.
I wish FD would implement it in such a way that this gets communicated in-game.
For example if your ship is destroyed you will get a message from the fighter pilot that he will be looking for a job elsewhere.

 

[Kaocraft]

Obviously I try to avoid getting blown up, and it's been a while, but isn't there a "Eject, eject" audio that plays as it happens?

Yeah the ship is *telling* you to eject. But since there are no escape pods or escape pod mechanics in the game, you'll notice that you don't eject but rather sit there in the cockpit engulfed in flames. You'll also note that no escape pod has ever launched out of any destroyed ship, ever. The whole "escape pod" thing is handwavium to "explain" respawns, which is totally fake and unnecessary because everyone accepts respawns as a basic part of playing a Videogame.

tl;dr - If Elite Dangerous has escape pods then so does Donkey Kong and Skyrim.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yeah the ship is *telling* you to eject. But since there are no escape pods or escape pod mechanics in the game, you'll notice that you don't eject but rather sit there in the cockpit engulfed in flames. You'll also note that no escape pod has ever launched out of any destroyed ship, ever. The whole "escape pod" thing is handwavium to "explain" respawns, which is totally fake and unnecessary because everyone accepts respawns as a basic part of playing a Videogame.

tl;dr - If Elite Dangerous has escape pods then so does Donkey Kong and Skyrim.

While we can't see them, that does not mean that they are not the explanation:

Hello Backers!

Here is the death penalty rules set that we've agreed on, following extensive debate, both in the team and on the forum. I'd like to thank everyone for their involvement! This thread will stay here for a few days, then be moved to the archives section.


Death Penalty Rules

• When a commander's ship receives catastrophic hull damage (breaks apart) or becomes incapable of supporting life, the commander automatically escapes via an ever-present, indestructible escape pod
• Depending on the circumstances the following effects can occur:
  • In situations where the ship receives an excessive amount of damage in one attack, all cargo inside is destroyed and the hull is obliterated
  • In situations where a ship has suffered catastrophic but not excessive damage, a percentage of the cargo inside is spilt out and the hull remains
  • Cargo can be flagged as “fragile” – these are always destroyed and never ejected, allowing us to prevent unwanted multiplication of rare cargo
  • Event/mission specific cargo can be destroyed or ejected based on mission requirements
    • Event/mission cargo can have ship module requirements to prevent unwanted outcomes (e.g. an important VIP might only accept a ride in a ship that had cabins featuring automatic escape capsules)
• The escape pod transports the commander back to the last station that they docked at
• Commanders losing a ship can accrue an excess fee which must be paid straight away
  • Starter ships with starting equipment have no excess fee
  • The excess fee is a percentage of the ship’s total value (including equipment)
    • Any active criminal bounty is transferred to the excess fee
  • If the commander owns multiple ships they can choose to forgo a replacement ship and avoid the payment, choosing to pilot another ship they own
    • Any active criminal bounty must still be paid
  • If the commander cannot afford the excess fee and has no other ships they must use a creditor to pay the fee amount
  • Once the excess fee has been paid the commander is given a replacement ship and equipment identical to the load out when the ship was docked (the context is that there is an automatic insurance premium applied to all sales)
• If the attack was a criminal act:
  • Cargo collected by anyone other than the commander is flagged as stolen goods
  • The perpetrator is placed in the “all group” for some game-time duration
  • The perpetrator has a bounty placed upon them, based on the ratings of ships involved in the attack
• Commanders can explicitly become allies with each other, which confer special benefits and penalties:
  • Allies can pick up cargo spilt from other members’ ships without it being flagged as stolen goods
    • Only cargo ejected after commanders become allies is treated this way
  • Allies in the same location gain the same criminal status and penalties for acts any one of them commits

Creditors

• There are different types of creditor
  • Neutral: every docking location has a neutral creditor who offers:
    • to pay the excess fee amount up front in return for a percentage of all future sales until the loan and interest is accounted for
    • to do the above but include a credit sum to help the player get back on their feet
      • The credit sum is equal to the value of the excess
    • Additional uses of the neutral creditor simply increase the debt
      • There is a debt cap, beyond which debt is written off
    • To give the player a Sidewinder ship with basic equipment fitted
  • Factional: some docking stations have Federation/Imperial/Criminal affiliated creditors who offer:
    • To pay an excess fee amount up front in return for services rendered (Repayment Missions)
    • To do the above but include a credit sum to help the commander get back on their feet
      • The credit sum is equal to the value of the excess

Repayment Missions

• Repayment missions are offered by some creditors and:
  • Are only available when the creditor’s faction relationship is above a set threshold
  • Are always timed
  • Reduce the creditor’s faction relationship if failed (potentially triggering additional adversarial events)
  • Can involve adversarial activity against opposing factions
  • Can be “bought out” by paying a lump sum equal to the debt, though some faction loss will still occur

Ironman Elite
During commander creation the player may set the "ironman" flag. Ironman commanders can never be grouped with normal commanders. Players can use the same name for both normal and ironman commanders.

• Escape pod systems can be damaged and made inoperable (they are still invincible once launched)
• Escape pods are disposable: after use, a new pod can be purchased
• Escape pods must be manually activated
• Failure to use an escape pod permanently kills the commander if the ship suffers catastrophic hull damage (breaks apart)
  • Permanently killed commanders can be resurrected as a normal commander (no ironman flag), continuing from when they died
  • Ship warning systems and visual/aural cues activate when the ship nears total operational failure
  • The commander is not killed by any amount of ship operational failure
• Commanders have emergency personal life support which activates in the event of life support failure
  • Personal life support can only sustain a commander for a limited time, but restocks when the commander is in a breathable atmosphere
  • If a commander's personal life support runs out the commander is permanently killed

 

[IndigoWyrd]

AI Crew (or the CMDR) pilot the ship launched fighters remotely so they survive if the fighter is destroyed. They'll die if your ship is destroyed.

Perhaps that explains why CMDRs never get cramps from sitting in their seats for thousands of hours... they're not really sitting in their seats, they're remote-controlling a human-shaped interface device....

 

[Kizbot]

Yeah the ship is *telling* you to eject. But since there are no escape pods or escape pod mechanics in the game, you'll notice that you don't eject but rather sit there in the cockpit engulfed in flames. You'll also note that no escape pod has ever launched out of any destroyed ship, ever. The whole "escape pod" thing is handwavium to "explain" respawns, which is totally fake and unnecessary because everyone accepts respawns as a basic part of playing a Videogame.

tl;dr - If Elite Dangerous has escape pods then so does Donkey Kong and Skyrim.

Have you never found an escape pod either floating in space or laying on the ground?

From my experience, occupied, unoccupied and damaged escape pods is the 2nd most common items found at wreckage sites after cargo containers.

 

[Truesilver]

Yeah the ship is *telling* you to eject. But since there are no escape pods or escape pod mechanics in the game, you'll notice that you don't eject but rather sit there in the cockpit engulfed in flames.

I'm a bit surprised by this. I do eject on ship destruction, or at least, my point of view does.

 

[=71st=RuSh]

hmm Imperial Slaves as pilots.....

Yeah, imperial slaves are like gladiators in space, they can be freed after succefull missions!

 

[fantasmic]

I just think it's funny that your NPC crew seem to be the ONLY people that can die in the Elite universe.

 

[Pendra]

There is no pilot in this game. You are merely the AI piloting whatever you pilot. If the SRV gets destroyed, the AI terminates the connection with it so you get your ship control back.

 

[DukeIronHand]

While we can't see them, that does not mean that they are not the explanation:

A lot of Sammarco's stuff sounds very cool.
Were these proposed ideas from way back when since I am not seeing it in-game?

 

[Robert Maynard]

A lot of Sammarco's stuff sounds very cool.
Were these proposed ideas from way back when since I am not seeing it in-game?

That post was the final proposal on the topic in the DDF.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I'm not sure if there is already a dicussion on this topic but I really want to share a worry about the new npc crew members that will be piloting these ship launched fighters.

They die when your ship is destroyed.. but you don't. It begs me to ask why? If you can fit an escape pod into a SRV why not a fighter? Hell ejector seats were put into fighters in WW2, what happened there? If I die in my SRV, I teleport into my ship even though it is in orbit many miles away. I fail to understand the logic here. It's common knowledge that in all situations, the pilot is more valuable than the lump of metal. Lump of metal can be replaced but pilot cannot. Somehow this is long forgotten?

Also something I am unsure about is if they are out fighting and get destroyed, I then 'print' a new one, who pilots it? Either a)The same guy who did escape pod back to my ship or b) I need to have another pilot on board for every fighter I can print. A. makes little sense that they die on my ship destruction and B. means that its gonna get awful crowded in the ship!

From what I can gather in the braben vids, they rank up with experience. I can imagine it being pretty easy to get emotionally attached to them as they fight for you and win fight after fight. Getting a cheaper 'harmless' pilot and training them up to expert or deadly will be a very rewarding task as you get lots out of this deal. This could take weeks or months depending on play style. Then a suicide winder slams into you at a mailslot. Boom. Crew dead. Rebuy and loss of cargo. Somebody has lolz, you cry.
Or perhaps its a crazed npc that is interdicting you repeated while magically regenerating its hull. Or perhaps you just took a goofy shot and hit the cops while your hull was low. You get my point. This mechanism could create a whole new type of salty tear thread where players weep their lost crew and a whole new lolz game for those that want to drink those tears. I'm not expecting FD to have put any kind of mechanism to counter this becuase lets face it, when has that ever happened?

Previously the only thing that would be lost was credits and maybe cargo, very annoying already and most people will strive to avoid it. Staying in Solo, combat logging etc.. surely this will only get worse?

Edit: (not really relevant anymore): I may be wrong on this, but if our launched fighter is already out and fighting and suddenly the fight starts going south, it is now a player choice to hang around and wait for the fighter to dock before waking out of there, or just wake out and leave the poor son of a b*tch to die. Or just log, which im betting will be a popular choice.

I guess I just don't understand the decision here to kill off crew members. Haven't they just raised the stakes of losing combat just a little too far?



TLDR:
Ship launched fighter pilots die and I don't understand why. Isn't it just another reason to rage quit or Combat Log?

Edit: OK so it was my misunderstanding that the pilot is in the fighter when they are actually on board your ship using tele presence to pilot a drone. Still doesn't excuse there death on ship destruction and increased logging will still be an issue.

I've been dead a looooong time.

Ralph, USAF(R)

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I just think it's funny that your NPC crew seem to be the ONLY people that can die in the Elite universe.

NPC's Lives Matter!

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That post was the final proposal on the topic in the DDF.

*Really* final.

Imagine customer retention, if every Elite session starts, and ends, with a rebuy screen, stating that you were killed by CDR "GitGud".

 

[Lobstris]

FD could always bring back the notion of an escape pod which we could fit and take up an internal module. (similar capacity to a cargo rack)

Please Frontier, bring back the notion of the Escape Pod.

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That post was the final proposal on the topic in the DDF.

Please stop posting things from the DDF. It only brings pain!

 

[Faybs]

The way I see is that fighter pilots don't really die, they just decide your a bad captain/risk who almost got them killed, and they don't want to play with you anymore. Once their pod gets rescued, they change their name and move to a distant system.

Actually, almost exactly that would give the same gameplay result and preserve the lore - if an NPC pilot gets blown up in your ship, they do escape like you do, but no longer trust you and refuse to be hired again.

 

[mossfoot]

The way I see is that fighter pilots don't really die, they just decide your a bad captain/risk who almost got them killed, and they don't want to play with you anymore. Once their pod gets rescued, they change their name and move to a distant system.

Works for me. Though given the recycling of names, I'd say it's possible for you to find/rehire them later

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Escape pods are a myth. Both you *and* the NPC crew member are killed when your ship is blown up. There are no escape pods for anyone. YOU respawn because it's a Videogame and you're a paying customer. NPCs die because they can't complain on forums.

Oh, THIS chestnut again. At least you're not insisting we're all cloned.

 

[Kaybe]

I am vehemently opposed to the idea of your ship crew dying with your ship, *especially* crew that you 'train up' in combat rank over a long period of time.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I am vehemently opposed to the idea of your ship crew dying with your ship, *especially* crew that you 'train up' in combat rank over a long period of time.

What, losing months of progress to a single mistake? Happens to explorers all the time - don't see why combat pilots, who have far more survivable ships, shouldn't also take on a bit of that sort of risk.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

What, losing months of progress to a single mistake? Happens to explorers all the time - don't see why combat pilots, who have far more survivable ships, shouldn't also take on a bit of that sort of risk.

I feel for explorers They get paid naff all cash (relatively) and risk more progress than anyone else in the game... given we have magic pockets for the crafting stuff personally i would feel even more hard done by now than at launch.

That said, if we had the chance to rescue our crew say with 24 hrs to fly back to the salvage site and scoop them, imo it would not be too outrageous to have a similar mechanic for exploration (and bounty) vouchers. IMO there has to be some risk to crew otherwise they would just be another meaningless commodity, where as with a risk to losing them imo we would "bond" with them more.

backl to explorers for a second.... if an explorer gets destroyed they could just have a data packet they could scan. its not so outrageous, they already exist in some missions on the BB etc. it would not help from player attacks which can happen anywhere, however most npc attacks happen fairly close to inhabited systems IME so hopefully the distance you need to travel to pick them up would not be too horrendous. Even if its not a catch all, it would certain help SOME folk.

Better yet, (this would need some work from the devs). If pirates and other ne'er-do-wells were decoupled from access to the legal services somewhat and given their own "darknet" system of services only available at illegal starports and shady contacts, perhaps other players could illegally scan these data packets and sell the exploration data on said darknet, whilst still allowing the legitimate owner to go back and scan, and sell at universal cartegraphics..

sorry i went a bit off piste there.