Engineers The Dweller - Pulse laser mods, Focused vs Overcharged

woodbane

W
Hi guys,

Just looking for some advice. I'm slowly turning my FAS into a combat beast and initially am trying an all energy weapon load out - https://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_...4B22d5d582701.Iw19gDCQ.Aw18cQ==?bn=RES Hunter

This was after trawling the forums when I was agonising over multi cannon vs energy load out. The PA, beam, pulse load out seemed to come recommended.

Anyhow, looking at rolling the dice with The Dweller, unlocked to level 3 currently but I'm now stuck on whether to go with Focused or overcharged for the Pulse Lasers?

Anyone got any advice?
 

goemon

goemon
the problem with overcharged thermal weapons is, they add jitter. they don't have L5 upgrades, that gets rid of it. it is not so much of a problem for stripping shields - or destroying hull on medium large targets - but for sniping moduls.

i normally run a combined combo of overcharged (for stripping shields fast) and focussed (less damage drop-off on distance, great for modul sniping). on your build i would probably go with large overcharged pulse and two medium focussed ... or the otther way round.
 

woodbane

W
goemon said:
the problem with overcharged thermal weapons is, they add jitter. they don't have L5 upgrades, that gets rid of it. it is not so much of a problem for stripping shields - or destroying hull on medium large targets - but for sniping moduls.

i normally run a combined combo of overcharged (for stripping shields fast) and focussed (less damage drop-off on distance, great for modul sniping). on your build i would probably go with large overcharged pulse and two medium focussed ... or the otther way round.
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What mod would be best for the beam?

And would a MC build be better - it would certainly seem to offer more DPS?
 

Monk

Monk
dutchy2000 said:
I wonder if fixed pulses/bursts have jitter too?
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Curious about this too. Logically, there should be only a tiny bit of jitter since they can only move a few degrees anyway. It should probably make module sniping with fixed a little more difficult...but, if I were guessing, I'd say that folks using fixed builds will get the most value out of overcharged mods.
 

Mephane

Mephane
I suggest to only make the cheap grade 1 mods (burst and pulse laser: efficient, beam laser: lightweight or sturdy, reroll for a 2-3% extra DPS secondary) at the Dweller and save the effort for Broo Tarquin. You'll regret it if you do all the effort and then go to Tarquin and he allows 1 grade higher of everything than the Dweller (but no grade 5, Y U NO HAVE GRADE 5?).

ChongoBongoMongo said:
Don't run focused on gimballed unless you're only planning on attacking cutters from the increased distance.
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Actually, focused isn't bad as a DPS boost in general but you have to get a very good roll. The extra range also proportionally increases all damage fall-off distances, which can over-compensate for a slight DPS loss beyond a distance of 500m.

Conversely, damage fall-off distance scaling means that all short range mods are basically horrible unless you want to go really, really close all the time (<500m), because you don't just lose the maximum range, damage fall-off will also be much more severe.
 
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Sylow

Sylow
Mephane said:
Conversely, damage fall-off distance scaling means that all short range mods are basically horrible unless you want to go really, really close all the time (<500m), because you don't just lose the maximum range, damage fall-off will also be much more severe.
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With one noteworthy theoretical exception: the cannon. As the cannon does not have damage fall-off by range, it can project full damage at any range it still hits, at lower grades the short range blaster cannon can even be a better choice than the overcharged one. (Overcharged still is more damage, but short range blaster doesn't suffer of jitter. )
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Once an engineer gets implemented who can upgrade cannons to grade 4 or 5, overcharged looses the jitter problem and is the only actual choice.
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goemon

goemon
ChongoBongoMongo said:
Don't run focused on gimballed unless you're only planning on attacking cutters from the increased distance.
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i don't understand your reasoning for this statement?

focussed don't add jitter, and increases armour piercing ... and gimballed pulses are great for modul sniping.

the (small) dps reduction is in most cases countered by reduced damage drop off through distance.

am i missing something?
 

Chongo

C
Mephane said:
Actually, focused isn't bad as a DPS boost in general but you have to get a very good roll. The extra range also proportionally increases all damage fall-off distances, which can over-compensate for a slight DPS loss beyond a distance of 500m.

Conversely, damage fall-off distance scaling means that all short range mods are basically horrible unless you want to go really, really close all the time (<500m), because you don't just lose the maximum range, damage fall-off will also be much more severe.
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goemon said:
i don't understand your reasoning for this statement?

focussed don't add jitter, and increases armour piercing ... and gimballed pulses are great for modul sniping.

the (small) dps reduction is in most cases countered by reduced damage drop off through distance.

am i missing something?
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Yep. The inherent waviness of gimbals. At range that wavy angle margin of error makes it useless to fire on anything but a vette/cutter at >4500m. Forget anything small from outside normal ranges with gimballed. Tested.

I had this fancy idea of running g4 focused phasing on a clipper that would fire from distance on a fa off reverse flip boost drift. Wasn't so fancy after all.

Save the 5300 ranged pulse idea for something with fixed hardpoints sporting good convergence.
 

Ceekay

Ceekay
I picked up an excellent L4 efficient pulse from Broo with increases in damage and DPS along with lower PD and powerplant draw, even with enhanced PD's several stock energy weapons will drain it fairly quickly.

Using efficient energy weapons allows you to run 2.5 - 3 pips in weapons and fire almost continuously, especially useful in an agile ship like the FAS where time on target is high and the PD is undersized to a degree.
I tried some L1 and L2 focused pulse several weeks ago but the PD drain and DPS reduction outweighed the range and armour piercing gains perhaps the L3 and L4 mods might be worth a try once we get storage :) as I've too many decent weapons and no spare ships to store them.
 

Poseidal

Poseidal
ChongoBongoMongo said:
Yep. The inherent waviness of gimbals. At range that wavy angle margin of error makes it useless to fire on anything but a vette/cutter at >4500m. Forget anything small from outside normal ranges with gimballed. Tested.

I had this fancy idea of running g4 focused phasing on a clipper that would fire from distance on a fa off reverse flip boost drift. Wasn't so fancy after all.

Save the 5300 ranged pulse idea for something with fixed hardpoints sporting good convergence.
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They are talking about short->medium range use. The natural waving of the gimbals obviously means that extreme ranges neuter the effectiveness that way.

The added range increases the range damage drops off (apparently), and the Focus upgrades add armour penetration. So at medium ranges (e.g. 1km, I don't know the exact numbers), the damage hasn't dropped off with focus as much, and at close range the extra armour penetration helps snipe modules.

The added range from focussed isn't just about the extra range but extending the damage drop off effective range (if it works that way), with the armour penetration part of the higher grades to add to that.

I found the added heat was annoying though, especially as I plan on putting dirty drives in so it's efficient for me.
 

SCTrojanbulldog

SCTrojanbulldog
goemon said:
the problem with overcharged thermal weapons is, they add jitter. they don't have L5 upgrades, that gets rid of it. it is not so much of a problem for stripping shields - or destroying hull on medium large targets - but for sniping moduls.

i normally run a combined combo of overcharged (for stripping shields fast) and focussed (less damage drop-off on distance, great for modul sniping). on your build i would probably go with large overcharged pulse and two medium focussed ... or the otther way round.
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I'd do the OC on the medium as there's no class penalty on medium weapons vs. shield. That way you have your heavies to rip through modules.
 

Heavenly-Hammer

Heavenly-Hammer
goemon said:
i'll search the dev quote on it, but yes - extended range moves the damage drop off accordingly.

i'll have a look at efficient mod though - sound like a good idea for the 4 medium pulses on my fdl.
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it's definitely true. I was the one that first asked about it here.
 
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