The Emperor's New Clothes

[BrewerGeorge]

... ED is still not much more than what the game originally was: a fine simulator.
...

I can see that viewpoint and don't really dispute it; I implied as much in my later post about MS Flight Simulator. But that's a long way from the "broken" epithet that keeps being hurled at E|D in post after post after post here. I'm also an "old guy" (well, older at least - 43) and I didn't come to E|D until the last few hours of Mercenary availability simply because I didn't know about it. But for me, at least, this game has been exactly what I expected it to be and I feel I've already gotten my money's worth. I will, of course, welcome further content, but I think the game is great NOW.

 

[DarQik]

But there are many like myself who hold out for a better future, but that continues to get bleaker by the day. Basically Frontier CAN'T screw up 1.2 or it might be the final straw for many people.

What do you mean by screw up 1.2? Wings isn't going to be some incredible change or massive content addition. From what we've seen, it's going to give us some basic abilities to team up with others and some slightly increased encounters. That's not a lot of content, but it is lot of engineering.

I don't know if people are fatigued from playing Beta, or if E|D is attracting a lot of *ahem* older gamers who've been away from things so long that they don't have a realistic comparison, but this is a GOOD game, Folks.

ED feels like a Beta. Alphas tend to be unstable with lots of missing content. Late Betas tend to be fairly solid with some design goals not implemented and some nasty bugs. Lately released games look a lot like betas. It terms of competition in space games, it's fantastic, but the bar is pretty low since I haven't seen one since Freelancer. (Which I finally deleted after playing ED.)

I can compare ED with for instance World of Warcraft, which I also played for many years already. When I watched the streams of ED on twitch before I entered it, I already noticed that the game is actually not very different from the earlier versions. [...] I can understand the disappointment and frustration of other players about the lack of content. ED is still not much more than what the game originally was: a fine simulator.
[...]
In my dreams Blizzard reconsiders its decision to bury its own space-MMO and instead adopts Frontiers fine simulator as the engine of its game. [...] Time will tell, probably rather sooner than later.

Oh Hell no! Don't let them anywhere near this. Keep those current Blizz guys the hell away from this!

I played several MMOs through beta. I remember when WoW brought the level cap up to 40, introduced talents, enabled professions, and enabled PvP. I was there for some of the first PvP encounters in Beta. Playing from beta to release then after can be soul destroying. When you get to release, you're like--where is all the stuff that was planned before. Some parts of the vision never show up and others are removed as too challenging for players--and this is your gold standard WoW that I'm talking about. It developed to where it is over years, and some of us don't like the super easy mode it developed into. Each patch and content release altered game play and continues to. I took months off because they altered things so badly with patches that I couldn't stand it, eventually (several years in) I quit.

I don't expect ED to be magically different in 6 months. I expect it will take longer. Devs don't give daily/weekly feedback. This is a lot like the Blizz forums--demanding the devs respond ("c'mon blue reply"). I'm pretty sure they got the message on content and USS (because I do agree they're a content placeholder and missions are poorly implemented--WoW had some things like this too), but it will be a while before those can be addressed. There's lot of core functionality left to implement.

I'm quite hopeful for ED both now and future, but I wasn't part of the soul destroying beta--I only heard about it after it launched. When you've had enough--take a break for a few patches, then come back and check it out again to see what they've done with it.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

He's not a shill
He really believes everything he posts.
As a kickstarter backer and fan that is critical of the game/FD (because I wanted the best out of the game) I've crossed swords with Mr P many many times.
I got a bit worried when he nearly broke over the magical mystery build fiasco, but confirmation of location based damage modeling brought him back from the brink.

I never thought you were a shill either Titus, you were just starry eyed when you first jumped on board (Those heady days of Standard Beta in TEST with Flinn Lazermouth and the gang ) , a lot of people are. It take time playing the game to see it's faults.

I remember his unwavering support during the first days of the Kickstarter campaign. There were many of us pushing Frontier like crazy to release a video, or release some concept art. That bland text they had on the campaign page for many days was bare bones and next to useless. Yet even then Fronter's actions were defended to the hilt!

I'm pretty much out of all early access and kickstarter games now after being burnt multiple times.
ED was my first Kickstarter but considering how it's all turned out I won't be backing anymore (I did back 2 more after ED)
Not that ED is bad per say, it's not, it's a good foundation, I'm just sick of foundations.

I'm not defending Early Access or Kickstarter, but there has been a few good ones. Divinity: Original Sin and Wasteland 2 are great examples of how to do crowd funding correctly. Truth be told though, I agree with your point. I've backed a lot of games on Kickstarter (including Elite), and the two aforementioned games are the only ones that matched with what the developers proposed, and they are the only ones that were delivered in top shape.

Regarding Elite, I really have no idea where they are heading with the game any longer. Six months ago the cracks were there, but the direction seemed very clear - now it feels a bit like a strange form of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch that is losing and collecting parts in a somewhat random and indiscriminate manner. Not that Elite is a Garbage Patch (I still very much like the game) - but the various parts seem to be coming together in the same manner as that huge pile out in the Pacific; its construction attributed to many specific and predictable forces, yet to all outward appearances feeling completely mysterious, strange and random.

 

[BlackReign]

OP,

I'm not willing to give ED heat for the subjective appraisal of "releasing the game too early". I'm more disappointed with the product support, bug remediation and over all delivery after the release.

Here's a short list of issues pro release:
- Nerfing "everything CMDRs get good at", with poor or no explanation
- Meddling in the dynamics: making severe changes behind the seens with little to no announcement/explanation (bulk tax on big ships)
- More attention focusing on "exploits" than bug fixes
- Major flaws continue to go unfixed (trading, friendly fire, random ship explosions, multiplayer

I have more, but you get the point. What you are expressing is share by alot of CMDRs, some are simply more reluctant to admit it right now.

Afterall, I want this game to succeed. As a gamer for >25 years, I hate what the big labels have turned the industry to. I truly believe in the people funding a game directly, instead of the greedy big labels (EA ring a bell). I believe in it so much, I invested in the beta, like many of you did. I've never paid to be part of any beta, ever. But I felt compelled to put my money where my mouth is. And I did the same thing for StarCitizen.

But there's no denying what state this game is in right now. The way things are looking right now, we'll see more threads like this popping up. Unless of course the forum rules are changed to prohibit "outing of the game".

 

[Slopey]

I don't know if people are fatigued from playing Beta, or if E|D is attracting a lot of *ahem* older gamers who've been away from things so long that they don't have a realistic comparison, but this is a GOOD game, Folks.

(mod hat off, btw)

Actually, I think it may be attracting a lot of "younger" players who are used to immediate gratification, who are less able to accept a "framework and build upon it approach" as opposed to a console title you can complete in 20 hours but which is "complete" in that respect.

The original Elite was never about scores, or lives. But yet with ED we have people trying to min/max, and race to the "end". But there is no end, so when they get there, they complain about a lack of content while looking out of the cockpit window to a universe of 400 billion stars....

Granted, there were design proposals which have not yet been implemented, but as far as a deliverable goes - it does what it says on the tin, with the exception of multiplayer options/comms which we're all hopeful 1.2 will provide.

With Elite, FE and FE2 one thing was obvious - you were in it for the long haul. That's no different for ED. So, for those who don't want to sit back and enjoy the (possibly in your perception glacial pace of) ongoing development and feature addition - just check back every few months and explore the new features. It's not like it's costing you a monthly to do so. Meantime, there's plenty of fun for people who enjoy a more relaxed pace of gaming to enjoy.

(I realise that the above may be slightly ironic as the author of a tool which exists to provide min/maxing on cargo runs, but that's more to do with lack of information than racing for the end game - after all, I'm still in a Hauler.... I know, right??).

 

[Knot2clever]

One of the "no off line, I want a refund" brigade if I'm not mistaken and I'm not.

 

[Khan]

Anyone remember how there was supposed to be content regarding the "Elite Pilots Federation?"

You know, back in the day when they said you would take "special" missions that no one else could do outside of the group?

Just off the top of my head, one of the things that are missing.

Then there is the background sim,

The Cold war between the Empire and Federation

Aliens

Progression of any kind outside of trade

I could go on if I wish. I recall so much being said about this game, yet am totally unable to pin any of it down since those forums where archived around release.

Kinda like the 1.1 beta forums. Incredibly hard to find unless you look through recent activity, or you discover its not in Elites Subfourms.

 

[Titus Balls]

(mod hat off, btw)

Actually, I think it may be attracting a lot of "younger" players who are used to immediate gratification, who are less able to accept a "framework and build upon it approach" as opposed to a console title you can complete in 20 hours but which is "complete" in that respect.

The original Elite was never about scores, or lives. But yet with ED we have people trying to min/max, and race to the "end". But there is no end, so when they get there, they complain about a lack of content while looking out of the cockpit window to a universe of 400 billion stars....

Granted, there were design proposals which have not yet been implemented, but as far as a deliverable goes - it does what it says on the tin, with the exception of multiplayer options/comms which we're all hopeful 1.2 will provide.

With Elite, FE and FE2 one thing was obvious - you were in it for the long haul. That's no different for ED. So, for those who don't want to sit back and enjoy the (possibly in your perception glacial pace of) ongoing development and feature addition - just check back every few months and explore the new features. It's not like it's costing you a monthly to do so. Meantime, there's plenty of fun for people who enjoy a more relaxed pace of gaming to enjoy.

(I realise that the above may be slightly ironic as the author of a tool which exists to provide min/maxing on cargo runs, but that's more to do with lack of information than racing for the end game - after all, I'm still in a Hauler.... I know, right??).

Granted I'm not as old as you When the original Elite came out I was still knee-high to a grasshopper, but I did grow up playing Atari and ZX Spectrum in the 80s so I'm old enough.

That kind of thinking though doesn't cut it with most of us these days though. Like it or not, ED is competing with the already established Eve in the niche space, as well as many other established games.

In the space (no pun intended) other games have tried (Jumpgate, Earth & Beyond, heck even Freelancer) and have all fallen by the wayside - Eve, for better or worse, is the only one that managed to cut it and most of it's core subscriber base have kept with it for > 10 years and with active subscriber account makes at least between €3-5m a month.

I know it's never popular to bring it up, but quite simply it is the benchmark that two years ago Frontier should have been working towards - not necessary all the features, lets keep sovereignty out of it, but that doesn't mean you could not have had player owned features & crafting, a working instancing system (I read the KS and back them they claimed the P2P tech was tested and working, but I think the beta and launch has proved that was optimistic at best) - or dynamic mission chains, random missions, and working factional warfare - pretty much any MMO has it, even Minecraft has it. People will argue back and forth that it's not an MMO - but when offline mode was definitely dropped it became that.

I know, and I've said it myself, that people have said "When Eve launched it was a buggy mess and had no content" - well yes that was 13 years ago when the web, and modern game development in general, were still in their infancy. Frontier is a 20 year old company - they are making mistakes like a bunch of rookies would have done (and I know I've tried and failed to launch a £300k development studio 15 years ago making a space game very much inspired by Elite, then switching to a shooter because we were young and stupid).

Now Frontier has stiff competition chasing it, and having a head start Frontier should not squander it, but myself and others are concerned that through hubris or sheer bloody-mindedness Frontier will continue down a path that sees most players not sticking around and all that's going to be left are a handful of KS backers - at which point Frontier might just decide it's not economical to run the game anymore and switch it off (and the offliners will surely come back and gloat about that).

Many we promised a game, and even late last year DB was saying the "full game" would be released in 2014. Now I don't think any of us were under the illusion that it would be the COMPLETE GAME, that's how MMOs work and new features are added with every content patch - but these days most games launch with at least enough content to keep people going for 3-4 months until the next big content patch.

Instead we're seeing people who joined us in December already bored and leaving, even today one of the "silent majority" piping up to say they might not come back. We hear arguments of "give Frontier a year/2 years/until Planetary Landing is added" but quite frankly that just means most people will look at this as another £40 wasted and move on. I know I've had £100 of enjoyment out of the game so if I cut loose today I would be disappointed but not angry.

On top of it, my own gripe is Frontier are terrible at communications, both direct with the community and through marketing - the perception is neither know what the other is doing. Marketing blunder in with grandiose statements and flashy pictures and videos. The devs come on here - Sandro tries, Michael comes across with snappy one lines (that are more and more starting to look like he has cut and paste responses to everything).

Again it might not be the case but everything Frontier have done with Elite: Dangerous, and even ED itself comes over as amateur hour. And quite frankly after seeing what happened to Molyneux, Mr Braben should begin to be weary of what he continues to promise.

Anyway it's well passed when I should have gone to bed, sadly my video (and possibly my last - I don't want to over-promise on that and no deliver) is taking ages to upload so I shall have to leave it along with this treatise I never intended to start at past 1am.

 

[Sanderson]

It's amazing how this release ready game has become a foundation for future development as opposed to what it's sold as. Even more amazing is that the usual fanbois are more than happy to degrade the game status from finished release ready to such a poor state with seemingly not batting an eye.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again; ED is an early access game and should come with a warning to all prospective buyers that it is indeed just that.

There really does need to be a warning that ED is a "work in progress", incomplete, broken, buggy and doesn't resemble the "mood piece" trailers portrayal of gameplay in any way. I sure wish I had know David's past history in game development before I forked over my hard earned cash, as I certainly would not have done so.

 

[Ideas Man]

Sounds to me like the OP just wants to get naked, and that's alright by me

 

[Jetset]

I'm no fanboi & I'm also an oldie having played original Elite in the 80's but here's my take.....

Elite is by no means finished, we all agree on that, but I play other games and in a few hours (30-50) I finish them. The only game I don't think I've finished is Skyrim and I have a L120 character but still find stuff I haven't done. I reckon I've played quite a few hundred hours of skyrim & will play ESO next month when it stops being a monthly subscription.

Now Elite has, so far, given me more hrs than most other games I've played & yes parts of it are crap....SC is too long and watching numbers countdown is mind numbingly boring but the pvp is quite fun when it happens. I see the possibility of ED being really good eventually and if I'm honest for what I paid for it it has reached some/most of my expectations . It has the base of being better than my expectations but Frontier does come across as though they don't care what we think. They need a couple of full time people perusing these forums 24/7 & sorting out the many problems and telling us is going on their end.

I'll keep playing until I get totally bored but so far I do keep finding new things to do. I do fly a fully A graded Asp & switch it between killing human/npc pirates or trading when my bank balance drops below 10M......my rebuy is around 2M

 

[BrewerGeorge]

... They need a couple of full time people perusing these forums 24/7 & sorting out the many problems and telling us is going on their end.

...

OMG! What an utterly miserable job!

 

[BlackReign]

or if E|D is attracting a lot of *ahem* older gamers who've been away from things so long that they don't have a realistic comparison, but this is a GOOD game, Folks.

So rather than focus on the real issues; the state of the game, here we have another generalization blaming the gamers, not the game. Uh, I'm an "older gamer", and I never "left" gaming. I've been gaming since Quake 2, tolerating 2 Voodoo2 cards in SLI with constant instabilities.

I've seen the gaming industry evolve from a completely offline (with optional multiplayer) configuration, to today's iron-clad dlc, online only requirement, that removes consumer choice and forces the acceptance of half-baked games. I'm not trying to ressurrect the Offline-only broken promise by FD, but simply making the point that FD isn't doing a great job of distinguishing themselves from the rest of the bad apples. Games today are rarely completed by release, and many go on without repair, with the communities split by "optional" dlc/expansion packs. And in the United States, there are NO consumer protections regarding games. We buy, and we are stuck with it, like it or not. And FD, like so many others, take advantage of this.

THis is not rocket science: If the game was an overall better product, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Most adults don't look forward to being disappointed to the point of walking away or expressing it on the forums.

Let's keep attacking and blaming each other for daring to have had enough. After all, we should pay and be happy we have a game right......

 

[BlackReign]

Honestly, please stop with that. People buy games with less content. ED 1.0 has quite a lot to going for. People have sinked 30 - 80 hours into game - and that's for single buy game!

If anything, this and other threads are just pointless exercises in gamer's entitlement.

To my knowledge, no one got a copy of ED for free. And it's very easy to sink 30-80 hours into ED; it's a time sponge at it's core, and I don't mean that as a criticism. Most MMO's and sims are. But as paying customers, we are entitled: to get what we paid for. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less. That entitlement also includes you too.

So please, don't ridicule the very group that provides far more pressure and incentive for FD to get their act together than you will ever do.....simply because you feel undeserving.

 

[Ian Phillips]

So, woke up this morning and what did I see?

Another goodbye thread.

closing.