The engineers apparently don’t require that many mats in the end, but...

Funny · Jan 24, 2018

Realistically, we’re only going to be grinding for the highest grade materials. We did that in the old system for grade 5, and we’re gonna do that in the new system for g5 as well. A few key facts quickly:
The materials broker allows you to sell you high grade mats for lesser grade mats, with one higher grade being worth 3 of one a single tier lower.
I assume 3 rolls average per grade, as they said.

So, math time:
taking all of the above into account, the grade 5 itself costs 3 od the highest grade mats. To upgrade grade 4 to the point where you can go to grade 5 takes 3 mats of a single tier lower, does requiring 1 additional of the rarest mats for that upgrade (we’re using the broker).
For grade 3 it is 1/3 of one od the rarest mats, etc.
Grade 2 and 1 are a bit weird, but since they’re now only 1/9th and 1/27th respectively, in theory, we can simply ignore them - in part because they also ditch a mat (or 2 in g1’s case).

This means that the total sum tends towards 2.5 of the rarest mat per grade, and thus requires about one package of each for a single upgrade. Which is... decent? I guess?

A few problems with the current design, though, is the amount of busywork involved in going from grade 1-5. Ugh. You have to find 3 mat brokers and click 13+ times in the engineers alone just to get to get to G5, which is ridiculously boring and quite frankly a waste of our time.

I don’t specifically mind the “having to find the broker” bit though? My problems with the system are more that I can’t pay it all in one go, and that the resource gathering involved for literally every data packet and manufactured mat is stupid and counterintuitive - on top of being boring. Well, it doesn’t help that it shoves people into gameplay they don’t necessarily like if they want to get them through a normal gameplay session - and I guess it’s well known that base raids etc. are a bit on the tough side, and assasinations barely never require wake scanners sothose data types are just sitting there being mainly just an insult to our time. So... fix those things! Please.
No seriously, I’m begging you, I want to have fun

Edit: I just realised I forgot to mention the awful effects rng can have on your time and resources spent upgrading a single module. It shouldn’t be that noticeable on grade 1 and 2, but anywhere from 3 onwards and especially 4 will see rather drastic drops in efficiency.

Aussiedroid · Jan 24, 2018

I was thinking through the material broker ratios post the live stream and if my math is correct, you would need 6^4 tier 1 mats to get a single tier 5 mat. That would be about 1296 tier 1 mats.

Granted, that is the extreme case based on the current ratios in the hot build shown and would be subject to change as Sandro stated, but does seem a little steep. I think a ratio around 3 for 1 would be more practical with downgrade giving 2 for 1.

I still really like having the ability to down grade or upgrade mats instead of dumping them to make room, and see over time that I would use the material broker to free up some space for mats I get more commonly to fill up all my 100 for each type. Also to gather some harder to find things I may not come across due to the RNG nature of it all, but think my use of it will be limited to a degree if the ratios stay as they are now. It might simply work out to be more practical to farm higher tier mats in terms of time spent if the volumes of lower tier mats needed is so high.

Faybs · Jan 24, 2018

The materials broker is probably the single biggest improvement to engineers. I've lost count of how many times I've dumped materials, and right now I have a whole bunch of mats and data that I might possibly need but don't want to dump because they're rare, plus a giant empty bucket labelled "CIF". The ability to trade mats will make engineering sooo much easier - now instead of having to pray to RNGesus for a very specific rare mat, you can look for any rare or semi-rare mat and trade for it.

Aussiedroid · Jan 24, 2018

I agree mate, I still remember not long ago dumping maybe close to 500 items as I stocked up for an exploration trip and FSD boosts. I just wonder if the ratios are a bit on the harsher side.

Dommarraa · Jan 24, 2018

Just collect any old rubbish as you do your daily tasks. Every now and then do some brokering, and if you have enough, do another upgrade or 2. Sounds brilliant to me. No more hunting unicorn tears, just always carry a collector.

Whiners gonna whine. Hope Sandro appreciates that the noise is just noise and sticks to his guns.

Faybs · Jan 24, 2018

Dommarraa said:
Just collect any old rubbish as you do your daily tasks. Every now and then do some brokering, and if you have enough, do another upgrade or 2. Sounds brilliant to me. No more hunting unicorn tears, just always carry a collector.

Whiners gonna whine. Hope Sandro appreciates that the noise is just noise and sticks to his guns.

The new per-mat limits will definitely help with that style of play.

[VR] Deggial · Jan 24, 2018

Dommarraa said:
... Whiners gonna whine. Hope Sandro appreciates that the noise is just noise and sticks to his guns.

He was certainly very aware of the upcoming forum storm. I never saw him so nervous, wriggling and carefully formulating in a stream. I felt a little bit sorry for him.

Don’t worry, Sandro, everything is fine! The materials broker is a great addition to the game and the new engineering rules (backed by the new trading mechanic) are reasonable and the thoughts behind them well founded. (Personlly, I was never opposed to the RNG aspect - I actually liked the open,“no definite end” aspect of it. But what the hey! I will learn to love the new rules as well. No whining to be feared here.)

Dommarraa · Jan 24, 2018

I thought Ed was close to telling them to eff off. Would have cheered.

Alien · Jan 24, 2018

Dommarraa said:
I thought Ed was close to telling them to eff off. Would have cheered.

I'd donate money to Special Effect if Ed would rage at the community ... just once, just to get it out of his system.

Arguendo · Jan 24, 2018

Funny said:
taking all of the above into account, the grade 5 itself costs 3 od the highest grade mats.

Actually, the G5 Overcharged MCs shown in the demo required the same mats as it does in the current build and that's one of each G3 (Zirconium), G4 (Conductive Polymers) and G5 (Modified Embedded Firmware). That is true for a lot, if not all of the Grade 5 blueprints.

(I only know because I just checked it myself btw

)

Oss133 · Jan 24, 2018

I do not like the current implementation of Engineers. I have nothing engineered anymore as it is too random for my liking.

I am looking forward to trying the new Engineers when they are released into the galaxy.

Funny · Jan 24, 2018

CMDR Arguendo said:
Actually, the G5 Overcharged MCs shown in the demo required the same mats as it does in the current build and that's one of each G3 (Zirconium), G4 (Conductive Polymers) and G5 (Modified Embedded Firmware). That is true for a lot, if not all of the Grade 5 blueprints.

(I only know because I just checked it myself btw )

Haha, sorry about my poor wording. What I meant is that as you go up in grade rarity of all mats typically increases by one, and that grade 5 thus has the rarest mats (and 3 different ones at that). Hope it makes sense now

h347h · Jan 24, 2018

Definitely more grind for those of us with more than the casual players Asp Explorer. Now having different load outs is going to be more of a pain too.