General / Off-Topic The European Union is a dictatorship ?

Parmo

Parmo
adoredtv said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33403665

Early results show a No vote. Wow, this is exactly what's needed to shake up the system. Good on ya Greece, nice to see a people showing balls for a change!
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I agree. But I don't think the Greek people understand the risk of a no, never mind a yes. They are in dire trouble come what may.
Civil strife and conflict in Greece is a real possibility with the political extremes coming to the fore. The EU may have a Greek migrant problem to contend with if it boils over.
A no vote will also cause a deeper backlash in the EU than otherwise would be with a yes vote.
Yes, your shake up may well be needed but it could be so severe that limbs are broken and then amputated.
Pain is coming.
 

huwthomas

huwthomas
I find it sad that 75% want to remain in the eurozone even as they (apparently) vote no. The Maastricht convergence criteria might have been ignored but they were there for a good reason and one that still exists -- Greece has not converged with the core EZ economies like Germany, nor will it in the forseeable future. Best outcome IMO is still a Grexit (+ debt-free humanitarian aid) even if that's not what they [thought they] voted for.
 

Parmo

Parmo
CMDR MassDef said:
who are you reffering to?
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Who? I'm not referring to any person or political party. There are political extremes in any society. Two common terms are: extreme far left; extreme far right. These terms are usually understood to represent ideologically opposite views on how to structure society.
 

DanTheMan

DanTheMan
The suffering of the Greeks while mainly of their own making is not acceptable in a civilised world.
Germany was aided through the Marshall plan after the 2nd world war to be totally re-built from the destruction rained down upon it from the allied powers.
Greece needs an EU "Marshall Plan" to get it back on its feet.

The urge within the existing EU to swallow up more and more external sovereign states (that barely meet the entry criteria for successful membership) is a recipe for further disasters IMHO.

Good to see the Greeks have the gonads to stand up for themselves whereas us Brits meekly comply with "the rules".
 

CMDR MassDef

CMDR MassDef
Parmo said:
Who? I'm not referring to any person or political party. There are political extremes in any society. Two common terms are: extreme far left; extreme far right. These terms are usually understood to represent ideologically opposite views on how to structure society.
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No, i was wondering what are those political extremes that are coming to the fore and may cause civil strife and conflict in Greece. You said it, and i am just asking for more clarification. By saying that political extremes are in any society, that doesn't mean anything to me. Can you be more specific?
 

Parmo

Parmo
DanTheMan said:
The suffering of the Greeks while mainly of their own making is not acceptable in a civilised world.
Germany was aided through the Marshall plan after the 2nd world war to be totally re-built from the destruction rained down upon it from the allied powers.
Greece needs an EU "Marshall Plan" to get it back on its feet.

The urge within the existing EU to swallow up more and more external sovereign states (that barely meet the entry criteria for successful membership) is a recipe for further disasters IMHO.

Good to see the Greeks have the gonads to stand up for themselves whereas us Brits meekly comply with "the rules".
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Eh? In a civilised world people follow the rules. Some Greek people did not follow the rules and paid no taxes, to the detriment of their fellow citizens.
The French revolution of 1793 was caused in no small part because the French king couldn't get the aristocracy to pay any taxes whatsoever.
And the Marshall plan was enacted upon, against the wishes of the USA populace, to counter the threat from the USSR, not because of any altruist motivation with respect to the German people.
We do not live in a 'civilised' world. Nor in a 'civilised' universe.
 

CMDR MassDef

CMDR MassDef
Parmo said:
Eh? In a civilised world people follow the rules. Some Greek people did not follow the rules and paid no taxes, to the detriment of their fellow citizens.
.
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In a civilised world, people follow the rules set by the PEOPLE. This might be difficult for an American to comprehend.

"Civil strife and conflict in Greece is a real possibility with the political extremes coming to the fore"

This is offensive. State-wide racial riots or going on a kill spree could be a daily habbit where you live, but that is not the case in Greece. I can freely laugh, but someone from another country might get the message that Greece is about to go to war. You either have an argument to base this statement, or you don't type such nonsence.



As for the FOX Channel-kind of argument "Some Greek people did not follow the rules and paid no taxes, to the detriment of their fellow citizens", i would advise you to change or even enrich your sources, cause once again you look like you know nothing about the Greek issue.

p.s French revolution was in 1798
 
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Cody

Cody
Hmm... much horse-trading to come, and hardship too, perhaps?

Will Russia and China be waiting in the wings, I wonder - Cyprus is already seeing their influence, I believe.
 

CMDR MassDef

CMDR MassDef
Cody said:
Hmm... much horse-trading to come, and hardship too, perhaps?

Will Russia and China be waiting in the wings, I wonder - Cyprus is already seeing their influence, I believe.
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There are some rumors but it looks like Russia and China don't want to be involved. At least for the time being. That would also be seen as provocative by Europe. And it would p iss USA too. At last, it's Turkey that seems to have an interest on that matter. There are too may sides involved and the balance is too fragile.
Greece will try to re-negotiate with its european partners, the IMF, and the Central European Bank. Time is really limited. Banks are running out of euros. It's a matter of days before the economy collapses. There has to be an agreement within the week, unless Europeans start throwing money in a bankrupt economy, which i doubt it. If there won't be an agreement, soon, we are going to have to declare official bankruptcy and start printing the almighty drachma :)
 
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adoredtv

adoredtv
CMDR MassDef said:
There are some rumors but it looks like Russia and China don't want to be involved. At least for the time being. That would also be seen as provocative by Europe. And it would p iss USA too.
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I don't think either of them (Russia or China) care about what the EU or US thinks tbh. Russia doesn't really have the money to spare but I could see China taking an interest if the EU baulks at another bailout.
 
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CMDR MassDef

CMDR MassDef
adoredtv said:
I don't think either of them (Russia or China) care about what the EU or US thinks tbh. Russia doesn't really have the money to spare but I could see China taking an interest if the EU baulks at another bailout.
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I would like to remind you that 5000 years ago greece's geopolitical position was a bless. Nowadays its a doom. It's not just a place in the world where a war would be passed unnoticed. If Russia steps up than this could trigger a really tricky situation for everyone. And as i said, there are many sides involved. I also think that all major powers do care about what others think. But i do agree with the second part.
 

Arry

Arry
Patrick_68000 said:
And the next after the Greece ?

:)
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Logically it has to happen and the only reason it hasn't happened so far, is down to egos. The current structure can not work and will never work. Poorer economies can not work and run at the same level as richer ones. Everyone is growling at Grease, but they did not cause the problem, they are a product of the problem. Too many of the wrong people are suffering and paying the price, for a few, greedy investors who lost their bets. Grease should leave the Euro; they like many other countries, cannot expect to compete or even keep up with, the likes of Germany etc. Grease should leave, leave now and get it over with.

As to who would be next? Well lets hope it is Germany, then the rest may have a level playing field? Whomever it is, it will be easier when a country like Grease has already done it.
 

Arry

Arry
huwthomas said:
Britain you mean? I don't think we will vote to leave, but if we do then we'll have to make the best of it! :)
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1st, Cameron won't call the vote until he has it fixed. Which will be interesting, as he won't have a new deal by then. He'll probably use scare tactics.
2nd, Grease uses the Euro, the UK doesn't. So it can't leave in the same way.
 

Knot2clever

Knot2clever
The other EU countrys were well aware of the Greek economy situation but still allowed them to join.

The whole of the EU has played a part in the Greek situation and must accept some of the responsibility.

They should be given more help, this is an EU wide failure.
 
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