The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

[Bomba Luigi]

The actual size does not change, tough the actualy size of a gaming world never was of importance - how big it feels is. Which is why games with smaler maps then other games can still feel bigger then those games. In order to give the people a certain feeling of the size of the Galaxy they implement certain mechanics and gameplay, which it seems they revisit since those mechanics involved spending time to get to something which they think now there is too much of that so they tone it down to make it more accessable.

How big the galaxy feels is of minor importance in the bigger picture of what they want to achieve in terms of accessable gameplay. I do think we will see more features implemented in regards to quicker access, that seems rather clear to me.

 

[Cynaqq]

From a game design point of view, deciding what is gameplay and what is an unnecessary timesink is good practice.

I don't understand how everyone got up in arms with slippery slope arguments left and right.

No, designers deciding on a time-saving suspension of disbelief for a particular mechanic, doesn't mean they'll make away with everything in the game that takes time.

Their train of thought in this matter is obviously this:

When a player wants to attend a combat oriented CG, but is in a far away system, he just doesn't bother to attend. And the ones that do attend by coming from far away do it this way:

1- Fit the ship lightweight with an extra fuel tank or a fuel scoop, the largest FSD the ship can take. Naturally sell all the combat equipment which is usually heavy.

2- Travel to the CG system.

3- Try to combat fit the ship again, if necessary, jump between several systems and stations until you have all you need.

4- Attend the CG, (before 2.1 it was stay in the area until the CG ends. Fortunately it ended with 2.1)

5- Travel fit the sahip again

6- Go back home

7- Combat fit again, if necessary by jumping between several systems and stations.

How do they know this? They have all the data they need who attends the CGs and what they do exactly before and after they attended.

They know exactly how much time any one player spends doing what.

This doesn't mean they think nothing should take time. They just obviously want to do away with frustrating back and forth, usually for no good reason.

The ship and module transfer (and storage) was something requested especially by those who want to attend CGs but can't be bothered due to the tedium of getting a suitable ship there. Their data obviously matched the requests and they decided to go this way. Stop        g out about it.

 

[StiTch]

When a player wants to attend a combat oriented CG, but is in a far away system, he just doesn't bother to attend. And the ones that do attend by coming from far away do it this way:

How I attend a long distance CG:

-have a good FSD
-have previously visited my good friend Felicity for some good FSD tinkering
-have a fuel scoop

It's called sacrifice in loadout. There is no reason now for any combat ship to bother with different FSDs, just the lightest one it can equip.

Every ship has been designed around internal strengths and weaknesses. Some ships will get an oversized mandatory module at the cost of another undersized one. Ships like the gunship, with the oversized distributor but undersized FSD, suddenly have no actual negative in their weak point.

The complaints is I have are around this, and on top it-yes "that" word-immersion. It strips the sense of sheer size out the game, and feels ridiculous knowing ships are teleporting to me.

 

[Mephane]

The desired game play in that moment is entering the conflict zone in your Vulture. Not crossing the entire bubble to fetch it - and maybe getting to enter the conflict zone two days later, when it or your desire to partake might already be gone (assuming limited play time per day).

If you desire to be able to participate in a CZ at a whim, you should fly a multi-role ship thusly equipped. I am not saying this from some ivory tower, most of the time I am flying a Python with good shields, full armament, cargo racks, SRV bay, fuel scoop, ADS+DSS, KWS. If you use a specialized ship - e.g. a T9 or a Vulture - then you are not entitled to just have all your other specialized ships available in an instant.

 

[RhymeRhyme]

They definitely go into the right direction with this. As I mentioned before, I sometumes refuse to play, even that I would like tto, as a 40 minutes jump screen massacre awaits me befire I can do what I would like to do, actually play the game.

Star Citizen solved this problem in a much better way.

Last time I had to get my Corvette which took 20 minutes and the jump another 40 minutes to the station to sign in for the CG. After 1 hour of useless jump scrren, I was just to tired and frustrated. I only registered for the CG but switched off my PC afterwards.

 

[WeirdWizard]

The fact that this thread was created by a moderator not withstanding it seems that based on the standard policy of moderation on these forums this would be viewed as another ship transfer thread and merged. Not that I'm calling for that to happen as I think there is lots of valid sub topics of a big issue like this that are worth discussing in their own thread. But well I thought it was worth mentioning ;-)

 

[Marc_Hicks]

And then you travel around to fetch it. That act in an of itself is gameplay. As the saying goes, the journey is the destination - in a game that is literally about controlling any kind of vehicle, moving that vehicle about is central (and sometimes the only) gameplay.

Very Zen of you, but not incorrect . Yet even if we have non-instantaneous transfer of ships, its still far more convenient than going to fetch it yourself.....and you can still do other things whilst you wait for it to arrive.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Also, that now makes 3 such threads being permitted to hang around.. Could there be something of a moderators rebellion going on regarding ship transfer?

 

[Weps]

As I have said in another thread, it baffles me that the developers consider traveling in this game to be an inconvenience, but all the other aspects which delay either the acquisition of game assets (prices, reputation, materials) or the completion of activities (mining mechanics, mission mechanics, spawning mechanics etc.) are perfectly fine the way they are.

 

[Cynaqq]

How I attend a long distance CG:

-have a good FSD
-have previously visited my good friend Felicity for some good FSD tinkering
-have a fuel scoop

It's called sacrifice in loadout. There is no reason now for any combat ship to bother with different FSDs, just the lightest one it can equip.

Every ship has been designed around internal strengths and weaknesses. Some ships will get an oversized mandatory module at the cost of another undersized one. Ships like the gunship, with the oversized distributor but undersized FSD, suddenly have no actual negative in their weak point.

Yes, I understand that.

I'm not even saying I agree with the particular solution of instant travel.

All I'm saying is, they have the data and they act accordingly. They have the power to change it to something else if things don't go as they wished they would too. We shouldn't start spewing unnecessary claims of FD doing away with the entire game, especially by depending on slippery slope arguments, is all I'm saying.

 

[dynamicbob]

its where procedural content will be important

 

[Mephane]

Very Zen of you, but not incorrect . Yet even if we have non-instantaneous transfer of ships, its still far more convenient than going to fetch it yourself.....and you can still do other things whilst you wait for it to arrive.

Yes, in that often repeated example - you sit in your T9 and want to use your Vulture - what exactly are the things you are going to do in the meantime? Roll in some credits by - tada - trading, which essentially boils down to travelling around interrupted by docking to sell and buy commodities.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

If you desire to be able to participate in a CZ at a whim, you should fly a multi-role ship thusly equipped. I am not saying this from some ivory tower, most of the time I am flying a Python with good shields, full armament, cargo racks, SRV bay, fuel scoop, ADS+DSS, KWS. If you use a specialized ship - e.g. a T9 or a Vulture - then you are not entitled to just have all your other specialized ships available in an instant.

Like me. I fly my trusty Cobra MkIII. Very useful at almost everything .

 

[MadDogMurdock]

From a game design point of view, deciding what is gameplay and what is an unnecessary timesink is good practice.

I don't understand how everyone got up in arms with slippery slope arguments left and right.

No, designers deciding on a time-saving suspension of disbelief for a particular mechanic, doesn't mean they'll make away with everything in the game that takes time.

Their train of thought in this matter is obviously this:

When a player wants to attend a combat oriented CG, but is in a far away system, he just doesn't bother to attend. And the ones that do attend by coming from far away do it this way:

1- Fit the ship lightweight with an extra fuel tank or a fuel scoop, the largest FSD the ship can take. Naturally sell all the combat equipment which is usually heavy.

2- Travel to the CG system.

3- Try to combat fit the ship again, if necessary, jump between several systems and stations until you have all you need.

4- Attend the CG, (before 2.1 it was stay in the area until the CG ends. Fortunately it ended with 2.1)

5- Travel fit the sahip again

6- Go back home

7- Combat fit again, if necessary by jumping between several systems and stations.

How do they know this? They have all the data they need who attends the CGs and what they do exactly before and after they attended.

They know exactly how much time any one player spends doing what.

This doesn't mean they think nothing should take time. They just obviously want to do away with frustrating back and forth, usually for no good reason.

The ship and module transfer (and storage) was something requested especially by those who want to attend CGs but can't be bothered due to the tedium of getting a suitable ship there. Their data obviously matched the requests and they decided to go this way. Stop        g out about it.

Yes, but that actually mattered.
CGs are one of FDs way of asking players which direction a storyline should go.
The success or failure of a CG therefore matters.
One of the main factors of whether a CG succeeds was therefore location and players willingness to go there in a suitable ship.
If that CG and storyline mattered to them they would go regardless of the effort (ehem, core gameplay) required to get there.

Now, location doesn't matter and every CG will be pretty much identical no matter where it is.

The decision seems to be made, but ED is now a lot more generic because of it for the sake of convenience (skipping gameplay and not having to think about ship builds).

 

[YinYin]

If you desire to be able to participate in a CZ at a whim, you should fly a multi-role ship thusly equipped. I am not saying this from some ivory tower, most of the time I am flying a Python with good shields, full armament, cargo racks, SRV bay, fuel scoop, ADS+DSS, KWS. [...] then you are not entitled to just have all your other specialized ships available in an instant.

Yes, you are saying this from a privileged position actually being in a multi role? And though we may not be entitled to that now, we will be with 2.2 given sufficient credits for the transfer ;p

Multi roles are currently the most used ships according to most available statistics - maybe they want to simply make more specialised ship roles be more accessible and widely used. It will add a lot of variation to both the galaxy and what players do most of their time.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I don't understand - are we against 'instant' or 'everywhere' part of ship transfer?

And what's with hyperbole guys? I know you have concerns, but this is emotional boiling point. Cool a bit a think a bit rationally. No, galaxy didn't get smaller. Yes, having fighter ship in very distant system is interesting concept, but it can be even explained away with ship "hauling" - actual mechanic used in navy today. As for instant is only think I don't like, but I can live with that.

 

[StiTch]

Yes, I understand that.

I'm not even saying I agree with the particular solution of instant travel.

All I'm saying is, they have the data and they act accordingly. They have the power to change it to something else if things don't go as they wished they would too. We shouldn't start spewing unnecessary claims of FD doing away with the entire game, especially by depending on slippery slope arguments, is all I'm saying.

Yeah. Unfortunately FD have this knack for writing a whole updates worth of good stuff, with one or two outrageously *disgusting expletive* decisions. And then take stupid round-a-bout steps to avoid accepting it was a stupid idea.

I like the ship transfer idea. I really do. If I am cruising around and my mate says he wants to meet me in that system for a good old punch up, transfer means I don't have to do a two-way trip to collect a different ship. But instant? Simply say that it takes the time it would do for that ship to naturally fly from point to point at roughly the fastest speed you could hope to jump through that distance. It's cut the distance in half because it's a one way trip and cutting the one-way trip time down because the ship is being flown at a very efficient rate. You pay some NPC to have flown it for you and in the meantime you get a coffee from the locals and get started on the fighting in a smaller ship.

Why a total lack of common sense or foresight was deemed a good idea, I don't know.

 

[avow555]

Instant ship movement, hmm.
It just seems so unatural!

 

[StiTch]

I don't understand - are we against 'instant' or 'everywhere' part of ship transfer?

And what's with hyperbole guys? I know you have concerns, but this is emotional boiling point. Cool a bit a think a bit rationally. No, galaxy didn't get smaller. Yes, having fighter ship in very distant system is interesting concept, but it can be even explained away with ship "hauling" - actual mechanic used in navy today. As for instant is only think I don't like, but I can live with that.

Consensus is transfer is a good idea, instant isn't.

Emotions are going to be at boiling point because this is a game we love and don't want to see wrecked by a self-important dev decision

 

[Siranui]

+1 rep for seeing the obvious and the EQ reference. Getting across the zones was okay...provided you weren't making it through some of the more awkward dungeons on a corpse run with no SoW.

The Karana Plains possessed an enormous sense of scale, and even playing a bard, it took considerable time to cross them. It actually felt like vast savanna. It took me over eight hours to travel from Erudin's Hole to Feydwyr on foot once, and it was an amazing journey.

It stuns me that a twenty year old fantasy MMO conveyed that sense of scale so well, while a game about space set in a representation of our actual galaxy is moving in completely the other direction; seemingly at odds with the word of the guy at the helm, who is genuinely passionate about the science and richness of his creation.

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Yes, in that often repeated example - you sit in your T9 and want to use your Vulture - what exactly are the things you are going to do in the meantime? Roll in some credits by - tada - trading, which essentially boils down to travelling around interrupted by docking to sell and buy commodities.

You assume trading is boring, so you wouldn't do it. One rather assumes that someone who had purchased a T-9 would feel differently and hence have no issue filling that time.