The game industry cant go on like this.

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That involves most of the army veterans suffering from PTSD you know.

I am aware.

All the young patriotic souls "answering the call" to defend their country against made-up international claims ending in a country where they are the agressors and treated as such. Where they come to the conclusion that the "enemy" is just a farmer trying to survive or a family father protecting his kin or where they are forced to commit war crimes under order which they dont agree with. They realize they dont want to be there and whoever they are fighting isnt demonic or "the enemy" but just another fellow human being doing what he "has to do" to survive. But they cannot stop, cannot drop their arms, cannot deny a command (well they can, you should check what happens to army personnel that denies an order in a combat situation) so they endure.....and develop PTSD.

And you just summed up the reasons for my lack of sympathy pretty well.

Without going deeper into a potentially political argument I find the lack of empathy toward affected people concerning and a bit shocking. Too much disregard or ignorance from people who either never experienced the trauma or the symptom or are simply unable to view something from a different point of view. And claiming that you did experience this doesnt strengthen your argument because if thats the case you should be able to sympathize in the first place.

Oh, I've experienced and inflicted plenty of trauma and I can certainly empathize with those of even vaguely similar experiences.

Sympathy is another matter. I knew what I was getting in to and I was even younger than most of those "young patriotic souls". If they didn't grasp the possible consequences of what they could have been called upon to do, that was willful ignorance.

People make mistakes all the time.

I've made plenty. Probably not anywhere near done making them either.

What I quoted from your comment means that you will not forgive mistakes and expect consequences and punishment to its fullest leaving people without help, without sympathy and without a way out.

It's not place to forgive, nor my place to impose consequences. They haven't wronged me and I am not responsible for their trauma. I expect they'll either come to terms with what they've experienced, or not. Which ever it is, they'll do it without my hindrance or support.
 
This is opening up a whole new can of worms but generally I agree with this statement. I have been brought up in a "manly" household. Boys dont cry, boys dont show fear, boys hit back, boys fight. Be tough and alpha all the time. And I m not and I always have been struggling with rising up to the expectations of my parents and my peers. I consider myself empthic and I rather help then destroy. I dont like violence but that doesnt mean that I wasnt a trouble maker in my youth. I ve been unfair, choleric, violent and cruel plenty.....but now years later I (hope I) am different and I am ashamed of myself when I remember back.
Then I very much respect the strength you've no doubt had to develop in order to get through that. And I'm glad you've reached a position where you're able to talk about it like that.

And to be clear, because I'm conscious of how snarky my comment was back there, my issue is not with men or the positive attributes associated with traditional masculinity. My issue is with the cultural and social expectations and conventions that bind men to the sort of experience you've described here, and don't allow them to fulfil their potential as complete human beings, or even just to lean on others when they need to.

The acceptance of combat PTSD as a real thing in fighting men and women is absolutely right and proper. My issue isn't with that. It's with the idea that it's only acceptable in people who've faced military conflict. And that view has been heavily implied in this thread, as it's tacitly held across society, and that rejection of people's experiences contributes to an enormous amount of stigma and secondary traumatisation.
 

Goose4291

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This is about right frankly as it applies to this thread article.

I can only speak for my own experiences other here have similar. I am part of the medical services in services, I have seen and treated many hundreds of horrifically injured people over the years, some of the injuries were literally unbelievable and beyond the experience of just about anyone. I do think about these people from time to time BUT I dont feel damaged by it nor do the vast majority of my colleagues. Mainly I think because we had time to process what was coming in to us beforehand, it wasnt a surprise and we could steel ourselves and support the team afterward. Nothing was a surprise or a shock. The data skews for the front line medic or infantryman that goes into a situation and finds this, those guys suffer PTSD a lot. Mainly because of the repetitive short sharp shock.

Anyway that is as you would describe it....manly ...warrior PTSD. Think on this though anyone can witness horrific events such as car crash, suicide, murder etc etc ... they are short sharp shocks. Dont have be "manly" or "warrior" at all.

These developers "chose" to work for this company surely in the full knowledge of what that company produces in terms of content, in an industry where they could literally choose their employer and content. They surely could not be more prepared mentally for the trials of that work and to boot....they could leave at any time.

I can only cynically think that the vast majority of these complaints in the gaming industry are cries for help but related to other aspects of their employment and little at all to do with their art.

Cheers Jezzah. That was much better put, than I could do.
 
Did any of you actually bother reading past that quote and thinking about what was said in the article that was linked?

Here it is for convenience: https://kotaku.com/id-have-these-extremely-graphic-dreams-what-its-like-t-1834611691

I've gone ahead and highlighted the points that got me thinking.

Making my way through the rest of it but ye gods. Hangings on YouTube? That's messed up.
Right....... so............... staff sit looking at videos of public executions, but it was making a videogame which gave PTSD?

I mean come on.................. cart being put before the horse there....

now, IF researching actual executions was part of the work flow handed down from up high then there is a story there, and people from up high should be bought up on charges, I highly doubt this however

but that sounds to me like another thinly veiled attempt to blame videogames for everything.

i am gonna say with fair certainty that there is no need to watch real killings to get the visuals just so in a game........ and it IS the real thing which makes it bad. I dare say looking at any hollywood movie would be plenty graphic enough to get ideas for your game without the side effects. I am betting the developers chose to look at real life horror and THAT is what messed them up..... Perhaps it is an interest in such things which got them interested in making games like MK from the get go... hence they would quite possibly be looking at that stuff even without making games and be just as disturbed.

I dont doubt that if you look at that sort of stuff day in day out it will affect you at a deep level, however I contest that videogames are the cause.
 
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I've read that the people who have to review reported posts on sites like facebook can be affected, as they don't really have much choice but to lok at horrific stuff if it's been posted. I guess the saem applies to anyone whose job involves monitoring censorship
 
I've read that the people who have to review reported posts on sites like facebook can be affected, as they don't really have much choice but to lok at horrific stuff if it's been posted. I guess the saem applies to anyone whose job involves monitoring censorship
Absolutely...... and those people have my sympathies. If I heard that someone working at a centre for instance removing child abuse images had PTSD I would not question it. That is a horrible job, one i could not do and one that i have utmost respect for those who can do it and cope.
 
Kataku is a alt-neo-leftist propaganda joke and is a failing activist not journalist website. A good portion of their writers have been laid off as no one reads their website anymore. This is another virtue signaling “woke” activist piece meant to be clickbait. People who game don’t read Kataku, people who claw at the US Supreme Court doors like zombies over fabrication and lies read that trash.

I stomached the article for about 2/3 of it before having to close it as I could hear the activist writers whiny sjw-npc voice through that “he/him” “she/her” (I had no idea they have gotten so crazy they have to announce their pronouns like a badge of homer every time they talk, until I cought a clip of those lunatics someone sent as a joke) terrible writing.

The video game industry is failing because a large portion of millennials will spend $1000 on a cell phone every year, and $5 several times a day for a cup or garbage coffee, but refuses to spend $7 on a mobile game or $60 on a console/PC one. These people are completely delusional and have no idea what goes into coding video games, they just assume they magically appear apparently like all the money needed to fund their social programs. These are the same people crying for certain people to pay more taxes, but are on Instagram working as “models” (strippers) making thousands a month taking their clothes off for middle aged guys with cameras who pretend to be photographers. I know I was in the photography industry for a while and tried to recently get back into it with partial success. None of them pay taxes on the money they make, and they are making good money. It’s a completely delusional generation that expects everything for free but will spend hundreds on buy gem & gold scams micro transactions because once they have something for free, in their lunatic heads buying micro transactions isn’t an issue, even when they spend more on those than they would have just buying the game outright. They are easily mind controlled with wait timers and pay to win scams. They are also the ones pretending to be “woke” demanding nonsense changes to societal norms (in video games and in the world) which unfortunately completely miss the mark of actual meaningful and much needed social change.

To be fair, it’s not all of them that are like this and there are those from other generations who also fall for this consumer psychological warfare, “wokeness”, etc, but it seems like it started with Millennials and that’s the highest concentration of those kinds of consumers. They are not however the ones spending money on games, as generation x still spends more on video games.

The problem that may send the industry into another meltdown, like the video game crash of the 80’s and lead to a complete financial crash of the economy (little known fact, the video game industry makes more money than music and movies combined!) is the fact that the people who actually pay for games are tired of the nonsense and no longer spending time or money on gaming. These people are sick of the virtue signaling, the pandering to a small minority of people who don’t even game, and the change in pricing (due to pure, self destructive I might add, greed) having paid games with excessive added micro transactions, or “free” games that cost hundreds of times more to actually progress than if they had actually been one time paid. I could go on for hours into the details, but the proof is all over online with the gaming counter-wokeness crowd movement, studies, polls, and forum posts.

In the end “get woke go broke” is actually a thing, not just a saying. The website you posted is a prime example; they just laid off a significant number of their fake news activists pretending to be journalists, and the reason was they were no longer getting people to read these kinds of virtue signaling articles. Yes, there is an issue that’s plaguing the game industry, and ironically part of it is sites like the one you posted.
 
..... I have considerable difficulty sympathizing with those who volunteer to do potentially monstrous or disturbing tasks, of their own free will, then find out they can't handle that sort of environment.

Indeed, and as a combat veteran I can assure you I've never met any of our particular vocation that seeks sympathy or understanding...that's normally a sentiment we're waylaid with after the fact and from people who have no real understanding or experience of our lives as service personnel.

We're not immune nor inhuman, the experiences have a deep and lasting effect and the effects don't usually surface until in some cases, years after leaving the service. Talking from experience, not only mine but from many others... there's also no treatment. The flashbacks are very real and debilitating...it's not like having bad dreams as some folk imagine.

Just try understanding why you find yourself cowering in a corner of your own kitchen bathed in sweat, shivering and not really knowing where you are or who the woman is who's hugging you.

I'm always embarrassed by the recent trend of people thanking veterans for their service...to be truthful, I'd give back all the thanks, the tacky tin and ribbons and the meaningful handshakes for a decent nights sleep.
 
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Indeed, and as a combat veteran I can assure you I've never met any of our particular vocation that seeks sympathy or understanding...that's normally a sentiment we're waylaid with after the fact and from people who have no real understanding or experience of our lives as service personnel.

We're not immune nor inhuman, the experiences have a deep and lasting effect and the effects don't usually surface until in some cases, years after leaving the service. Talking from experience, not only mine but from many others... there's also no treatment. The flashbacks are very real and debilitating...it's not like having bad dreams as some folk imagine.

Just try understanding why you find yourself cowering in a corner of your own kitchen bathed in sweat, shivering and not really understanding where you are or who the woman is who's hugging you.

I'm always embarrassed by the recent trend of people thanking veterans for their service...to be truthful, I'd give back all the thanks, the tacky tin and ribbons and the meaningful handshakes for a decent nights sleep.

Worked EMS/Fire/Fed& State Disaster Response for years, and went through my fair share of waking up in the middle of the night until a few years after leaving the industry. It started late into my career and wasn’t caused by the incidents themselves, but the knowledge some of my coworkers and colleagues were terrible at their jobs, lazy, corrupt, and some outright criminal yet due to our society run by criminals, they were getting away with negligent homicide. That’s what screwed me up for a time; the knowledge we could have saved more but the lazy (usually pro union) crowd didn’t want to work and when they did they did more harm than good. In fact a lot of times we just push them aside and told him to go sit in a corner while we did the actual work because we knew it was safer for them and letting them touch a patient, something they were all too happy to do however were always the first to tell stories about how they are all hero’s, almost always embellishing the truth to make themselves sound better and/or extending the roll they really had in the situation.

The problem with violent video games comes from the fact that people at young ages who haven’t had a chance to mentally grow up, are playing them, despite the 18+ warning. Kids as young as 6-8 years old are playing COD style games! When I was growing up video games were 8 bit and graphics were stick figures, so the graphic violence was not realistic, unlike today’s hyper realistic games. Furthermore I don’t ever remember playing a violent game which basically forced you (to continue in the play) having to walk through a mall and shoot innocent people, like one of the recent COD games (I no longer play, for other reasons, mind you). Those of us who are older here violent video games are causing people to go crazy however we don’t understand this because when we were growing up the games were different. I do think there’s a correlation to desensitization of violence in children and violent games, but DON’T think the solution is to ban violent games, but to STOP BEING LAZY PARENTS and letting your under 18 CHILDREN play violent video games. The larger problem however is social networking, which the criminal alt-left companies will regulate conservative voices, but let neo-liberal lunatics say whatever they want, including encouraging people to commit murder, suicide, theft, glorification of violence (how many street fight, street racing away from cops, calls for violence, etc, videos are online?).

The thing is that’s what everyone wants at the top because now were so busy fighting each other, so we’re not fighting them. It’s a shell game meant to keep people on edge, high alert, intentionally giving up our rights, demanding more laws and surveillance, all so the ones at the top can push for complete civil control. It’s psychological warfare against the masses and had any if you actually READ Edward Snowden’s leaks you would see the un-intelligence communities directly target civilians NOT engaged in terrorist acts, to get into your heads and try and force you to give up your rights. There are entire leaked government PowerPoint presentations on “how to manipulate the (non criminal) general public into giving up control”.

Please don’t be sheep. We DO have a problem, but problem is not caused by the things they are saying, in the manor they are saying it, and the solution is not what they propose. It’s all a lie, and it’s been done before. A certain US int agency was (extremely well documented, including congressional testimony) importing/selling more narcotics into Miami back in the 80s then the actual drug cartels, which lead to huge acts of violence, and a civil demand for what has become the industrial prison complex (I.e. where states and private corporations make money off of incarcerating people). This disproportionately affected minorities, and yet today these same people are the ones falling right back into the trap where they are being Manipulated in the same way, expecting a different outcome. The problem is education, that people have the Internet at their fingertips and only go to the same five garbage websites, instead of researching, learning, and taking the time to read the leaks these criminals don’t want us to read. We live in a society of laziness, hyper bowl, self-centeredness, virtue signaling, knee-jerk reactions, mental illness, arrogance, greed, arrogance, and worst of all ignorance. These are the underlying problems that are destroying today’s society, not video games.

Since 2013 I’ve been trying to do product consulting, started a corporation (inc, c-Corp) but have found none of these companies want to pay consultants to do anything other than fire employees (the cowards won’t do it themselves) and come up with new ways to break their own products to further the failed (economic and environmental disaster) policy of planned obsolescence. I’ve had some of the largest corporations in the world (IBM, Google are two of them) steal my product ideas and then try and silence me; I’ve upset some pretty powerful people. In the end the conclusion I have come to is these companies don’t want to fix anything as they are making too many profits from what’s broken. Ironically, only usually fluid short term profits; (why so many companies fail) they could be making plenty of long term stable profits, while building and maintaining consumer trust and loyalty, something we don’t have anymore in any industry. The executives however now only think about their own profit, not the overall health of the company; it’s the get in, make a boat load, and get out mentally. The ones at the top are the problem, and they know it too. This is why they need psychological warfare against the masses; to maintain control of a world that’s falling apart into ruin because of their incompetence, greed, and self serving nature which lacks long term vision for a future where anyone but them succeed. Unfortunately they fail to recognize, society rises and falls together, that’s the nature of how our social construct works, whether they like it or not.
 
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The video game industry is failing because a large portion of millennials will spend $1000 on a cell phone every year, and $5 several times a day for a cup or garbage coffee, but refuses to spend $7 on a mobile game or $60 on a console/PC one. These people are completely delusional and have no idea what goes into coding video games

In terms of the bottom line, the video games industry is hardly failing.

Video games keep getting worse, even as their budgets get ever higher, and that pricing practices implemented by publishers are arrogant and out of touch. Most AAA titles flatly are not worth $60 dollars for the entertainment they fail to provide, and how ever much money was squandered making them is neither here nor there. High production values cannot compensate for uninspired, rehashed, gaming experiences.

The problem isn't people that are unwilling to pay for games, it's people that are willing to pay for garbage games.
 
In terms of the bottom line, the video games industry is hardly failing.

Video games keep getting worse, even as their budgets get ever higher, and that pricing practices implemented by publishers are arrogant and out of touch. Most AAA titles flatly are not worth $60 dollars for the entertainment they fail to provide, and how ever much money was squandered making them is neither here nor there. High production values cannot compensate for uninspired, rehashed, gaming experiences.

The problem isn't people that are unwilling to pay for games, it's people that are willing to pay for garbage games.

Agreed. I apologize, I had already said a lot and that was going down a rabbit hole that would have ended in two pages instead of one.

I fully agree and think it’s the reason we don’t see trials anymore like we used to years ago. I also think it’s why we see so many pre-order “bonus” scams. We could also get into chopping apart games and selling those parts back as dlc (I’m for dlc which adds longevity to a title and supports further continued development, just not dlc cut from the original game, and sold back separately).

You are 100% correct games today are pretty awful. This however is because some of the things I wrote in my post such as “wokeness”, greed, management focusing solely on profits, lack of vision, etc.

The irony is that this garbage article meant as Clickbait & activism (coincidently written after a tragedy) has sparked more meaningful conversation here by real people, than it ever will by its own senseless virtue signaling content.

Had the author wrote “video game [fake] journalism (aka social activism) can’t go on like this” I would’ve been in 100% support as its true, and the reason that site and many like it are failing leading to mass layoffs of these terrible “journalists”. You would think they would figure it out when more people get their news from some random dude in his basement on YouTube, than they do on these sites (like the NYT, Kataku, Vox, etc). Nope, that’s the delusion though, and the pure mental illness fueling social hysteria to a small minority of lunatics. They will figure it out soon enough; it’s already happening with the mass layoffs of these “woke” activists pretending to be journalists.

For the record as a straight libertarian (conservative leaning) male, I game as a female. Not because of wokeness, but because I find women more visually pleasing and if I’m going to stair at the back of my character for hours, I would rather they be female. It’s personal preference. I have zero issue with women being portrayed in video games as strong characters. That’s said having some butch looking woman on the cover of a World War I game with a futuristic bionic arm and a bunch of virtue signaling man hating garbage thrown in to appease game activists pretending to be journalists, writing about games (they and the only ones left reading their propaganda) don’t even play, is one of the main reason games are so bad today. Lightning (and the rest of the women) from Final Fantasy 13 were great examples of women done right in games; I don’t remember any of them ever saying “all men must sit down and shut-up”. In contrast, FF15’s boy band focused garbage was awful, homoerotic, and creepy. I could barely get through the game and frequently cringed at the disturbing “woke” mess they were trying to push on players.

Gamers don’t have a problem with women in video games, gamers have a problem with the same virtue signaling in “toxic masculinity“ ads being brought into games from people who they themselves don’t even practice the extremism they are preaching. I’m not a type a-guy, I don’t need to be virtue signaled to by a company that has a know history of abusing animals for profit, just so they can try and sell more products, which have been on the decline for years as society is changing and allowing men not to shave for work. Getting “woke” and lecturing people on things that 99% of people aren’t doing wrong, that ironically most of their corporate executives ARE doing wrong, just to try and sell more junk isn’t going to build a better product. That’s what these idiots can’t figure out, unfortunately their nonsense isn’t benign and leads everyday people to extremism combatting what they see is a breakdown of civil society by (what is in reality) only a small number of fringe elements.
 
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Kataku is a alt-neo-leftist propaganda joke
Oh, this is going to be good.

Also, "Kotaku".


Hi, Donald.

virtue signaling

Complaining about virtue signalling is a form of virtue signalling. Practise what you preach. If you hate it, don't do it.


Again, the site's name is Kotaku. But please, do carry on with your detailed and well-informed analysis.


wth-rtfm-ttfn-rofl

badge of homer

"Honour". Or "honor", if you like. Homer is the nuclear power plant employee who wrote about the Trojan war.

The video game industry is failing

The video game industry makes billions and billions of dollars, you blinkered reactionary. Bobby Kotick made nearly thirty million dollars in 2018 and has a net worth of US$7 billion.

Electronic Arts' revenue for 2018 was US$5.15 billion. Ubisoft made €1.73 billion in sales last year.

Games companies are raking it in. You know some of them are dodging corporation tax, while receiving tax credits through Government industry relief schemes? So in effect, while you're sitting there whining about a bunch of people taking pics on Instagram to try to scrape up a living and make ends meet, you're cheerfully funding massive corporations and their multi-billionaire executives to screw the economy over.

(Snip dizzying nonsense about photography.)

(little known fact, the video game industry makes more money than music and movies combined!)

That's not at all "little known". It's actually very well known, as above - which is why your earlier attempt to declare the video game industry as "failing" was so breathtakingly ludicrous.

Are you actually reading what you're typing?

In the end “get woke go broke” is actually a thing, not just a saying.
It's actually just a saying. Or at least, the inconsistent, self-contradictory, error-heavy and soundbite-laden tirade you've delivered here does nothing to show otherwise.
 
Oh, this is going to be good.

Also, "Kotaku".



Hi, Donald.



Complaining about virtue signalling is a form of virtue signalling. Practise what you preach. If you hate it, don't do it.



Again, the site's name is Kotaku. But please, do carry on with your detailed and well-informed analysis.



wth-rtfm-ttfn-rofl



"Honour". Or "honor", if you like. Homer is the nuclear power plant employee who wrote about the Trojan war.



The video game industry makes billions and billions of dollars, you blinkered reactionary. Bobby Kotick made nearly thirty million dollars in 2018 and has a net worth of US$7 billion.

Electronic Arts' revenue for 2018 was US$5.15 billion. Ubisoft made €1.73 billion in sales last year.

Games companies are raking it in. You know some of them are dodging corporation tax, while receiving tax credits through Government industry relief schemes? So in effect, while you're sitting there whining about a bunch of people taking pics on Instagram to try to scrape up a living and make ends meet, you're cheerfully funding massive corporations and their multi-billionaire executives to screw the economy over.

(Snip dizzying nonsense about photography.)



That's not at all "little known". It's actually very well known, as above - which is why your earlier attempt to declare the video game industry as "failing" was so breathtakingly ludicrous.

Are you actually reading what you're typing?


It's actually just a saying. Or at least, the inconsistent, self-contradictory, error-heavy and soundbite-laden tirade you've delivered here does nothing to show otherwise.

If Apple wasn’t so terrible with their auto correct, you know what, it’s not worth my time to reply as in the end you will just “report” my reply as “hate speech” when I pick apart your counter argument and send you into tears.

As many others have pointed out the video game industry may be making money but it’s totally failing. You pointed out electronic arts and how much money they’re making yet for some reason they seem to be laying off people in masses? I guess they’re doing so well they need to lay off all their employees.

The Instagram models I know make $2000+ a month on top of their regular jobs, most are clearing $80k a year, and yet still cry they want free health insurance. Why won’t they pay their taxes so we can have what they want? (Ps I believe and have promoted socialized medicine, but everyone has to pay for it by not tax dodging). They make a hell of a lot more than I do and yet they want me to pay for their benefits as they refuse to pay taxes. These are not “poor” women “just trying to make a living” and their IG profiles with them flying around first class on vacations us tax paying people can’t afford is proof enough.

I’m not gonna even bother responding to the rest because I’m already going to send you into a liberal Antifa “trigger” episode. Sorry, I’m not getting bated by lunatics.

You do realize both game companies you listed as “doing well” have just had mass lay-offs correct? Both are under investigation for adding loot box (illegal gambling) targeting kids, which is the only reason for their profits? Who’s making the nonsense argument again?

I just looked over all of your replies here on the forums and you seem to do nothing but attack people directly all of which are trying to make points you don’t agree with or support. Like a typical leftist it seems that you don’t want anyone else to have an opinion other than your own? That doesn’t sound very all inclusive or diverse, how about you guys start practicing what you preach?
 

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I've read that the people who have to review reported posts on sites like facebook can be affected, as they don't really have much choice but to lok at horrific stuff if it's been posted. I guess the saem applies to anyone whose job involves monitoring censorship

I actually remember that too. The facebook core staff is just 50 people or so and they work on reported posts and content 24/7. Looking and reading through vitriol, hate and sick things on a daily basis. Thats not something you can simply lock away the moment you leave the building.
 
you know what, it’s not worth my time to reply

There the message should have ended, but no, it went on.

I’m not gonna even bother responding to the rest

Spoiler alert, he continues ‘not responding’ even adding several attachments to his non responses

how about you guys start practicing what you preach?

Great advice from someone who said they wouldn’t respond, twice, in the same post.
 
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