The Great Post of Landscaping

Welcome to Isla Pena, the smallest, yet most charming and most exotic island on Las Cinco Muertes… or not.
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I’ve chosen this image, and this particular island, because both illustrate nicely my following points:

  1. Maps can’t be located within their respective islands.
  2. Landscape doesn’t match the island’s geography.
  3. Landscape is always the same, regardless of the island.
Maps can’t be located within their respective islands.

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As you can see, when confronted with a map choice for a new game, we are given a generic map of the island in question with some icon roughly locating the site/map in which we will be working. But, the above images from Isla Pena prove neither the island geography nor the general landscaping views match the alleged placement of said sites. In the pictures, the Isla Pena current map should be placed in the north of the island, which is also the thinnest corner and, judging by the size it must have (as to fit the map bounds within that end) it’s orientation roughly corresponds fine with that expected, although the views from it do not.

The south of Isla Pena, it’s longest, widest extension, should be visible from the given site, but even though we can glimpse a distant harbor, neither the length nor the geography seem to appropriately match what should be there. Now, I understand the whole islands are unfinished and those views were implemented just for decoration but this particular issue, which also happen to occur on the other islands, leaves me to wonder what are the chances of having more maps on islands such as Pena (here, stop to think about what I’ve already showed you: Pena may be the smallest island, but the part not visited is bigger than what we thought (at least twice as big as what we’ve been given), and it may well deliver at least another similar location in the southern end).

This very same issue also happens in all other maps, although, for what I could glimpse, Tacaño North could more or less have some acceptable fitting.

Why is it relevant?

This not only breaks immersion, but also plays to the suffocating, crumpled feeling of limitation virtually everyone complains of about JWE.

Also, to me at least, it strongly questions the future of the game itself; I mean, can such islands expect to have new maps in the future?

How can be improved/implemented?

I understand this can’t have any easy fix, but I think the whole islands should be finished before moving to other locations and their landscapes taken care of. I also understand consoles limits are at play so, in the meantime, implementing fog so as to at least cover those imprecise landmarks could be a temporal solution.

But maybe this couldn’t work too well on places such as Pena, bound to have enough wind to not being foggy, so the whole island question should be considered.

On the other hand, I recommend switching the icons for each map to miniatures of the building areas there located.

Landscape doesn’t match the island’s geography.

As seen in the right hand of the first image, when trying to place the actual map bound within the island’s coasts according to the icons provided, we not only find the limitations derived from the unmatching surroundings of the sites (which make it impossible to differentiate north from south in most cases) we also stumble upon the size issue (once more).

Most maps also feel tiny precisely because of them not being logically placed within their respective, whole, islands. Yet, should we could really measure them, they would be positively huge (and simple calculations can be made just taking into account the space needs for certain species, or the length of a single fence stretch, which has been estimated to be 90m long).

But, once again, this is illogical and counterproductive, as their respective islands would need to be massive for them to host those sites within their surroundings (this is notably the case with Isla Nublar’s basegame map).

Why is it relevant?

As stated above, this plays only to further mismatch the perceived map size and island size, totally destroying immersion and logical space management, worsening the tiny map issue.

How can be improved/implemented?

Again, ideally, this can be solved by building the whole islands even if they aren’t made totally playable at once. Short term, either a rework of the foresting terrain and/or the implementation of fog-in-the-distance layer might be helpful.

Mid-term, however, providing the ability to move around the Park Entrance could also help to ease the mentioned feelings.

Landscape is always the same, regardless of the island.

This is my third and I’d say biggest concern, if I ignore my liking for panoramic screencaps. And I don’t think this particular point needs any illustration, since each and everyone of us can actually see it’s the demolishing truth. Landscaping options implemented in that nice last patch were much welcome, but fell very, very short of what should be JWE.

For every island to feel different, they should be different AND sport different options. Having sand on Nublar is nice, even if it doesn’t belong much within that particular non-coastal map, but the rest of the terrain options are virtually the same as the ones from the other islands.

More importantly, the forest brush is always the same across all the islands, and it doesn’t even play to a unique feel in any place, as it’s mostly composed of the very same mix of ‘regular’ trees and palms trying to pass as chaotic jungle.

Within this paradigm, it makes absolutely no difference to play Nublar than Pena, but map “size” and their respective terrain constraints (and weather conditions, if not playing on Sandbox).

Why is it relevant?

Considering the original goal for the inclusion of the Five Deaths, plus Nublar, was said to provide variety and unique feel for each island, I think it save to acknowledge this design was a complete failure as it is. Now, this isn’t the only area in which the game failed, but it’s worth noting it was the first in which some clear effort has been made to reach the original goal, however wrong the ways used (daytime, weather), so I’m hopeful the original goal hasn’t being given up, because it’s really important in order to justify the existent maps.

From an immersion and, particularly, franchise POV, landscaping was of paramount importance to both JP and JW. In the novel, InGen spared no expense to recreate the most astounding landscapes to please guests and accommodate their expensive animals so, while the movies themselves also sport breath-taking landscapes that star as much as dinosaurs themselves.

How can be improved/implemented?

First and foremost, reworking the existing scenery items and expand them is, I think, a must: trees and rocks are two of the many categories that could be implemented (for instance, fountains/waterfalls, logs or sculptures could be added as categories as well). The key point, however, is addressing the missing opportunity from Claire’s DLC: expanding individual tree items, providing a handful but of clearly defined and different genera.

Secondly, and perhaps much more feasible and important, adding several options for the ‘forest brush’. These could be even restricted to 4-5 options per map, no problem, but should provide different ambients/ecosystems, from conifers and redwoods to truly tropical palm-trees. Just five or six of these new ‘forest brushes’ would make such a big difference and improvement to landscaping.
 
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Clarifying question in the section
Landscape is always the same, regardless of the island.
you mention:
First and foremost, reworking the existing scenery items and expand them is, I think, a must: trees and rocks are two of the many categories that could be implemented
First, I heartily agree, but I don't see how this applies to your above
Why is it relevant?
In that section you state that every island must be different. Does this later apply to
Secondly, and perhaps much more feasible and important, adding several options for the ‘forest brush’. These could be even restricted to 4-5 options per map, no problem, but should provide different ambients/ecosystems, from conifers and redwoods to truly tropical palm-trees.
where you state that every Island should have only 4-5 trees, and that those trees should be distinct?

If so, I feel that I somewhat disagree. I think the inclusion of different forest types is a sound idea. I also think adding more and unique rocks and trees is painfully required. I don't like the idea of having certain terrains and flora be limited to a specific map. I feel that this limits creativity even if it improves originality of the islands. Mostly because of the statement expressed above. If they really did "spare no expense", then why can't they import shale/sand/sandstone/etc onto on island.

Perhaps I am missing what you are saying, if so, please clarify. Regardless, I think you make a lot of good points, and I hope they are considered by FD
 
Does this later apply to where you state that every Island should have only 4-5 trees, and that those trees should be distinct?

I think I maybe should have used the term 'forest brush' instead of 'tree', but yes, that's the idea.

I don't like the idea of having certain terrains and flora be limited to a specific map. I feel that this limits creativity even if it improves originality of the islands. Mostly because of the statement expressed above. If they really did "spare no expense", then why can't they import shale/sand/sandstone/etc onto on island.

Well, as I said above, I think there is some fundamental difference between having a whole forest of, say, conifers and planting just a few somewhat 'isolated' specimens of conifer a certain areas.

If islands are to have their own identity, I think it's just logical that only certain forest brushes are avaliable to certain maps. And I don't think this limits creativity much more than having such tiny/size-screwed maps to play with now that Sandbox is available across all the islands (which is what should have been since the very begining).

So, I suppose I can clarify my point by suggesting a bunch of 'forest brushes' for each island/map, that work mostly as the bush brushes (being different, but able to intermingle among themselves) and, set aside from those, the sceneary items that allow the player to plant individual trees.
 
If islands are to have their own identity, I think it's just logical that only certain forest brushes are avaliable to certain maps. And I don't think this limits creativity much more than having such tiny/size-screwed maps to play with now that Sandbox is available across all the islands (which is what should have been since the very begining).

(added underline for emphasis).

I think that as you stated this would make each island unique and fun to play individually, but only if they had a larger more playable area. I really like your ideas.
 
(added underline for emphasis).

I think that as you stated this would make each island unique and fun to play individually, but only if they had a larger more playable area. I really like your ideas.

Thanks. Although, in fact, I think all I've posted would save the current system of 'tiny maps', because even the same island could sport some different forest brushes on different locations.

The novel states clearly that northern Nublar hills have a different ecosystem than the southern part of the island. Muerta and Tacaño both have big mountains that could change wind effects and prevent or create certain microclimates, and Sorna is certainly big enough to harbor several locations at different altitudes.

Forgot to mention before that of course they would have the ability to port shale/rock/whatever from site to site, but I've wrote most of the above with console limits in mind. Sadly, I think that's a curse I don't think we can get rid of.
 
I agree with your findings and your proposals, I also tried to identify the areas on the islands but indeed the geography never corresponds to 100% ...

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I agree with your findings and your proposals, I also tried to identify the areas on the islands but indeed the geography never corresponds to 100% ...

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Thanks for trying this! I've seen many attemps at the same thing since launch and this only proves further my original points because no one (myself included) seems to have being able to accurately place the building sites. For instance, I would have followed the game's icon and placed Sorna's on the south-east...

Anyway, this also illustrates how unproportional the whole thing is. It would be nice if devs could address this on some of those video streams, because I understand that decision for including the Five Deaths less and less the more time I think of it, even considering the also failing storyline.
 
Maybe I should just start a new threas for each of the following suggestions, but as they are both related to this topic...

1) if pre-set landscape slots are the same for each map (like, just 4 terrain brushes, 4 bush brushes, etc) allow an option for choosing which ones to apply while starting a new Sandbox map.

2) allow linking Sandboc maps pertaining to the same island, so money, dinos, etc can be share among them.

Wild ideas but...
 
It's an island chain. How different do you expect them to be?

Are you really complaining about the maps not being an exact replica from some picture? LOL It's an aerial photo of the map. Of course it looks smaller. Go look at your neighborhood on Google maps and zoom out, it will look way smaller than it actually is. Zoom out on a park in the game and it will look smaller. Get in the jeep on the ground and it looks huge. It's a perspective issue.

The map you posted seems fine to me. It makes sense. If you go the other side of the island you can see the harbor and that's exactly what the map shows. You see the thinner portion that leads down to the larger portion. Just from the aerial shot that thinner portion looks smaller and so not as long as it would be from a ground view.

As far as it breaking immersion? I don't see how it breaks immersion since immersion in this game doesn't come from making sure the buildable areas we play on lines up exactly with promotional pictures of the island. Immersion in this game comes from building a park and managing it. When I was on Pena I didn't spend my time worrying about the in game buildable area matching up with a promotional map.

I know what this is getting to. Bigger maps. Unfortunately that can't happen due to console limitations. People really don't like the mountain in the middle of the Sorna map. But it's there for a reason and I have heard the Sorna map in the JP DLC has three mountains separating the buildable areas. The mountains are so consoles don't have to render everything at once. They act as a kind of buffer. The Sorna map we have now has three buildable areas around a mountain. You can't see the next buildable area till you go around the corner. Each buildable area is like mini Nublar sandbox. So when you fill it with game assets like buildings, dinosaurs and so on then performance would take a real bad hit if that mountain wasn't there. Consoles are already playing this game at lower settings and 30 fps. So without that mountain they performance would be really bad on consoles.

So basically the Nublar map we have now, Nublar north from Claires Sanctuary and the Nublar map coming in the JP DLC is about as big as we will ever get without adding in mountains to act as a buffer. The JP DLC Nublar map looks pretty big as well. A bit bigger than the Nublar map.

No I don't want constant fog on my maps so it looks like Turok on the N64. lol The only fog I would want to see is the kind that we saw in the first game trailer.

Though at one point this game had some really good looking lighting and atmospheric effects, which I imagine they were cut because consoles couldn't handle it. In some ways the footage from this trailer looks better than the final game. As you can see there was a variety of trees, the lighting was better, the Rex looked great, but that late day orange lighting with that fog effect was amazing. We don't have that in the game. That would have looked amazing with a JP park build.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVnk3yT2Lgo


That's the only kind of fog I want to see.


We will just have to wait for JWE 2 and hopefully with new consoles we can get bigger maps to build on.
 
I usually choose to ignore trolls in order to not flame myself, but since this is such a flagrant trolling unmoderated...

It's an island chain. How different do you expect them to be?

So what? What if it is an island chain? One island alone can sport several ecosystems within itself, provided it has enough space and geography. Novel canon states so for Isla Nublar, and movie canon certainly shows it for Isla Sorna as well.

Are you really complaining about the maps not being an exact replica from some picture?

No, that was not my complain. Please, learn to read and then go back to my original post.


The map you posted seems fine to me. It makes sense. If you go the other side of the island you can see the harbor and that's exactly what the map shows. You see the thinner portion that leads down to the larger portion.

I recommend you to take some trainning on spacial abilities, because that is NOT what the photos show. Certainly we can see the harbour, and I can even bough you (with some huge grain of salt) that it also shows the 'thinner portion', but that's all: given the building area's location and orientation, the larger portion of Isla Pena should be visible from the mountaintop too, and it doesn't.

That's why I think all that remaining space wasn't planned to be used in the future, should the alleged game support meant to eventually implement more maps on the current islands.

As far as it breaking immersion? I don't see how it breaks immersion since immersion in this game doesn't come from making sure the buildable areas we play on lines up exactly with promotional pictures of the island. Immersion in this game comes from building a park and managing it.

Ha! Speak for yourself. It fails horribly on both. I don't give a damn about neither Challenge nor Campaign, sorry. But, if I did, I wouldn't be playing JWE for sure. Choose PC or PZ maybe. Pretty much anything else with real depth.

And I know I'm not alone on enjoying building the best looking possible scenearies and taking pictures around there. Landscape and surroundings are vital for that. Anyway, let's assume someone wants to just build and manage an island themed park as some players out there (Botanical Gardens, North America Paleo-Preserve, pick any YouTuber you might like). They will be confronted with basically the very same background. Tell me, beyond any other content that might appeal you, what is the incentive for getting new DLC-map? I'll tell you: none.

I know what this is getting to. Bigger maps.

The most obvious proof of trolling. I didn't say anything about bigger maps, although I do agree they are mostly tiny and disappointing. But I also acknowledge consoles are f***ing us all and pretty much accepted it by now. What I just can't understand is why all building areas have to look the same and why cannot be located within the islands they supposedly belong.

I don't really care about Sorna's mountain. I do think Nublar North's slopes are just dumb (not to mention constant earthquakes and smoke). But It would be nice if a supposedly coastal map were indeed coastal like Muerta's, or if a mountaineous/valley map would be so. They cannot have all the same forests and vegetation, either. Doesn't make sense at all.

No I don't want constant fog on my maps so it looks like Turok on the N64. lol The only fog I would want to see is the kind that we saw in the first game trailer.

Again, you seriously need some reading classes....

For the record, I didn't suggest 'constant fog' on any buildable area. Just suggested it could be used to hide things such as so wide open ocean views such as Pena's when there isn't really a whole island to see around there. And it wasn't even my ideal solution. But whatever.

Though at one point this game had some really good looking lighting and atmospheric effects, which I imagine they were cut because consoles couldn't handle it. In some ways the footage from this trailer looks better than the final game. As you can see there was a variety of trees, the lighting was better, the Rex looked great, but that late day orange lighting with that fog effect was amazing. We don't have that in the game. That would have looked amazing with a JP park build.

Agreed.

We will just have to wait for JWE 2 and hopefully with new consoles we can get bigger maps to build on.

Wholeheartedly disagree. But I won't be buying a JWE2, so I don't give a damn.

For future references, please refrain from trolling my posts. Also, don't expect any reply from my part on this one. Have a nice day.
 
Far as fog goes, I've always mentioned that JWE needs it. But only at certain situations. Like after a rain shower or storm. Or early morning. It is cannon, nublar the cloud island. Hehe
 
I usually choose to ignore trolls in order to not flame myself, but since this is such a flagrant trolling unmoderated...



So what? What if it is an island chain? One island alone can sport several ecosystems within itself, provided it has enough space and geography. Novel canon states so for Isla Nublar, and movie canon certainly shows it for Isla Sorna as well.



No, that was not my complain. Please, learn to read and then go back to my original post.




I recommend you to take some trainning on spacial abilities, because that is NOT what the photos show. Certainly we can see the harbour, and I can even bough you (with some huge grain of salt) that it also shows the 'thinner portion', but that's all: given the building area's location and orientation, the larger portion of Isla Pena should be visible from the mountaintop too, and it doesn't.

That's why I think all that remaining space wasn't planned to be used in the future, should the alleged game support meant to eventually implement more maps on the current islands.



Ha! Speak for yourself. It fails horribly on both. I don't give a damn about neither Challenge nor Campaign, sorry. But, if I did, I wouldn't be playing JWE for sure. Choose PC or PZ maybe. Pretty much anything else with real depth.

And I know I'm not alone on enjoying building the best looking possible scenearies and taking pictures around there. Landscape and surroundings are vital for that. Anyway, let's assume someone wants to just build and manage an island themed park as some players out there (Botanical Gardens, North America Paleo-Preserve, pick any YouTuber you might like). They will be confronted with basically the very same background. Tell me, beyond any other content that might appeal you, what is the incentive for getting new DLC-map? I'll tell you: none.



The most obvious proof of trolling. I didn't say anything about bigger maps, although I do agree they are mostly tiny and disappointing. But I also acknowledge consoles are f***ing us all and pretty much accepted it by now. What I just can't understand is why all building areas have to look the same and why cannot be located within the islands they supposedly belong.

I don't really care about Sorna's mountain. I do think Nublar North's slopes are just dumb (not to mention constant earthquakes and smoke). But It would be nice if a supposedly coastal map were indeed coastal like Muerta's, or if a mountaineous/valley map would be so. They cannot have all the same forests and vegetation, either. Doesn't make sense at all.



Again, you seriously need some reading classes....

For the record, I didn't suggest 'constant fog' on any buildable area. Just suggested it could be used to hide things such as so wide open ocean views such as Pena's when there isn't really a whole island to see around there. And it wasn't even my ideal solution. But whatever.



Agreed.



Wholeheartedly disagree. But I won't be buying a JWE2, so I don't give a damn.

For future references, please refrain from trolling my posts. Also, don't expect any reply from my part on this one. Have a nice day.

Just because you don't agree with or like it doesn't mean it's a troll post.
 
Far as fog goes, I've always mentioned that JWE needs it. But only at certain situations. Like after a rain shower or storm. Or early morning. It is cannon, nublar the cloud island. Hehe

Agree with that too, however that would be much more like an atmospheric/lightning thing.

With regards to certain parts of landscape and certain islands, however, a kind of perpetual fog could partially help solve the problem, and wouldn't be necessarily linked to daytime or climatic events. As you said, Nublar is the 'cloud' island, and both novel and movie canon state that certain parts of it, specially high montaintops, were perpetually covered in clouds.

Isla Sorna would certainly have similar landscape perks, and JWE's Isla Pena could certainly use it to at least cover what clearly isn't finished. Although, again, it would be far better if it were indeed finished.

In this post I tried to focus on landscape, but atmospheric phenomena would be another great part that could add so much. Currently, I really love the day/night cycle (although the 24h is still broken for me)
 
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