General / Off-Topic The "If I Were In Charge..." Thread

I see most everyone in here in favor or population control in the UK :S I'm curious, how many of you guys are also in favor of the mass-immigration going on today?
You are aware that the birth rate among immigrants is significantly higher than native Brits? You are aware that native Brits have a birth rate that is way below 2.1(which is necessary to keep population at current level)?

I googled and found out the native British fertility rate is 1.4 in average, but that includes all current generations. If you look at younger generations, the number is closer to 1.0. With a replacement rate of 1.0 children per British female, the next generation of Brits appearing over the next 25 years will be half the size of the last generation, and if the next generation maintains the 1.0 replacement rate, that means that within the next 50 years (roughly 2 generations) the population of native British people in these islands will decrease by roughly 60-75%(worst case scenario).
Meanwhile the muslim birth rate in the UK is somewhere between 3 and 5.

You don't need population control, you need immigration stop..
Here and in the UK generally; one can't talk about immigration control, without being branded a racist. I don't think that the O.P. really wanted to open that can of worms with this thread.

At the same time, being an island, immigration has to be controlled; not banned, just controlled. Which is not the case at this time.
 
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At the same time, being an island, immigration has to be controlled; not banned, just controlled. Which is not the case at this time.

The UK has immigration controls. Believe me, the paperwork a lot of people have to go through to get in the country is substantial.
 
The UK has immigration controls. Believe me, the paperwork a lot of people have to go through to get in the country is substantial.
Try telling the truck drivers that.

Goggle organisations helping people get into the UK.

Yes we have border control; yes its funding has been cut over the last few years.
 
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Try telling the truck drivers that.

Goggle organisations helping people get into the UK.

Yes we have border control; yes its funding has been cut over the last few years.
And whose fault is that?

I agree we need strong border control's, ideally an in/out log of every single person (citizen or not) coming or going backed up with biometrics if possible.

That's not the same as open/closed immigration policies.
 
And whose fault is that?

I agree we need strong border control's, ideally an in/out log of every single person (citizen or not) coming or going backed up with biometrics if possible.

That's not the same as open/closed immigration policies.
I don't know, who do you think? maybe those that have been in power for the last few years? Doh!

Did I say anything about open/closed immigration policies? Check my post above, (21).
 
Whilst not disagreeing with the overall principle of "just" wars to prevent genocide etc. The practical problem that we just aren't very good at them, remains.

Yes Saddam Hussain was a very nasty man who was brutal to some of his own population. But is the life of the average Iraqi shop keeper or Cobbler better now?

The Taliban were not nice, but they were the church of England doing jumble sales and cake bakes compared to ISIS.

Would it have been better, rather than encouraging the "Arab spring" to assist in stopping it.

Is Egypt any better under a military government than under the old regime?

What about Libya? It's pretty much anarchy. Would Gadhafi be blowing up ancient ruins or flooding the black market with the contents of his armoury. Hi might have still sold a few weapons on the side but nothing like the free for all looting that happened after his fall.

Syria is a hot mess right now. If there was a parallel universe where the West hadn't egged on the Syrian opposition and instead had said "OK Assad, crack down but keep the violence to the absolute minimum" - would there be fewer or greater deaths? Would the living conditions of Syrians be better or worse. Yes a few hundred political protesters might have been tortured or shot during crack downs (and I'm not condoning that) but is that a price worth paying compared to the tens of thousands of deaths, the torture, the refugee crisis which is causing problems outside the region?

In short, it think it's hard to make the case that, in general, military action causes less suffering (although there are some case where it has) or even that it is cheaper. Imagine what could have been done to the Asia, Middle East and Africa if the billions spent on wars had been ploughed into development of infrastructure, education, healthcare.

I agree, the way the west handles that region of the world is dire, as i have said, it's because the wars are not fought for the reasons that i gave, but rather to benefit corporate interests, how else can we explain our despicable support for Saudi Arabia ?
 
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I don't know, who do you think? maybe those that have been in power for the last few years? Doh!

Did I say anything about open/closed immigration policies? Check my post above, (21).
For clarity, I was not disagreeing with your post.

I do think.that there needs to be clarity over the whole "control.our borders" thing.

You can have the most closed, anti foreigner immigration policy and terrible border policing letting all and sundry in

Conversely, you could have super efficient border policing telling you exactly hen and where every single person in the UK arrives and leaves and have a very open immigration policy.
 
I agree, the way the west handles that region of the world is dire, as i have said, it's because the wars are not fought for the reasons that i gave, but rather to benefit corporate interests, how else can we explain our despicable support for Saudi Arabia ?
the problem is trying to define a "just war" without hindsight. If it turned out saddam really did have chemical weapons that he could deploy to the UK in 45 minutes and he was planning to use the (presumably whilst holed up in his volcano lair) then the Iraq war might have been a bit more just. If the coalition actually had a plan to prevent Iraq sinking in to chaos and install a genuinely inclusiv and functioning government then even more just.

Unfortunately, that appeared in hindsight (though many had suspicions at the time, I remember being very sceptical about the 45 minute claim) to be wrong and the war unjustified.

To some extent we should learn to live and let live. Yes Saudi is terrible, but maybe just not supporting them until they get the message might be better (though oil is a complicating factor). The same goes for other terrible regimes. The carrot of economic co-operation (we'll allow you access to our markets if you allow women the vote etc.) is more effective than the stick of.....well....sticks.
 

Javert

Volunteer Moderator
the problem is trying to define a "just war" without hindsight. If it turned out saddam really did have chemical weapons that he could deploy to the UK in 45 minutes and he was planning to use the (presumably whilst holed up in his volcano lair) then the Iraq war might have been a bit more just. If the coalition actually had a plan to prevent Iraq sinking in to chaos and install a genuinely inclusiv and functioning government then even more just.

Unfortunately, that appeared in hindsight (though many had suspicions at the time, I remember being very sceptical about the 45 minute claim) to be wrong and the war unjustified.

To some extent we should learn to live and let live. Yes Saudi is terrible, but maybe just not supporting them until they get the message might be better (though oil is a complicating factor). The same goes for other terrible regimes. The carrot of economic co-operation (we'll allow you access to our markets if you allow women the vote etc.) is more effective than the stick of.....well....sticks.

The odd thing is, I remember clearly back at the time when TB made that speech about WMC in 45 minutes etc.

He never actually even said that the weapons could be deployed against the UK in 45 minutes - he left the media to fill that in for him. He just said they could be deployed in 45 minutes - could have been to attack a base 50m from their border.

I remember clearly at the time thinking - there is absolutely no way on this Earth that Iraq has WMD that they can use to attack the UK within 45 minutes - the way the media was reporting the story at the time was rubbish, but I do wonder now if that was exactly what was encouraged.

At the time, when I was much younger and maybe a bit naive, I gave them the benefit of the doubt that there was "stuff" that they couldn't reveal and this was the right thing to do. These days - it seems like my first instinct was more correct.
 
The odd thing is, I remember clearly back at the time when TB made that speech about WMC in 45 minutes etc.

He never actually even said that the weapons could be deployed against the UK in 45 minutes - he left the media to fill that in for him. He just said they could be deployed in 45 minutes - could have been to attack a base 50m from their border.

I remember clearly at the time thinking - there is absolutely no way on this Earth that Iraq has WMD that they can use to attack the UK within 45 minutes - the way the media was reporting the story at the time was rubbish, but I do wonder now if that was exactly what was encouraged.

At the time, when I was much younger and maybe a bit naive, I gave them the benefit of the doubt that there was "stuff" that they couldn't reveal and this was the right thing to do. These days - it seems like my first instinct was more correct.
That was all down to Bush junior. His attitude of, 'you're with us or against us' and needing a powerful ally for his own personal agenda. He claimed the CID had the info, M16 at the time, could not prove one way or another and by the time it got to the house; it was to late, the ball was rolling.
 
Try telling the truck drivers that.

The premise behind that comment kind of validates my statement doesn't it? If there weren't strict border controls there wouldn't be an issue for the truckers. But coming into the uk, by sea, air or tunnel, you go through immigration checks. The suggestion that you don't and that the UK has open borders is simply incorrect.
 
The premise behind that comment kind of validates my statement doesn't it? If there weren't strict border controls there wouldn't be an issue for the truckers. But coming into the uk, by sea, air or tunnel, you go through immigration checks. The suggestion that you don't and that the UK has open borders is simply incorrect.
I have not suggested there are no border controls or checks. I am stating the fact that they are not carried out well enough to stop all of those wishing to get, doing so. Not every lorry is subjected to a proper search and it is a fact that the border control budgets have been cut over the last 7 years. They simply don't have the resources or the time to check every truck. If you genuinely believe that people are not coming into the UK illegally, you need to do some simple research; I would suggest looking at the BBC local news history for Kent, for a start.
 
If you genuinely believe that people are not coming into the UK illegally, you need to do some simple research; I would suggest looking at the BBC local news history for Kent, for a start.

I don't "genuinely believe" that. I'm not one for false dichotomies.
 
The 'unemployment' figures in the UK does not represent the reality of those are not in work. Students are not counted. It only reflect people who are claiming JSA. People basically die commit suicide before they get jobs so figure drop. ESA are not counted. I voluntarily stopped claiming before the people in JOb centre are not nice and the system is ridiculous. You basically get fordced to work for £73 at G4S security. Yes robots and automation will happen. There is so much inefficiency in civil service. We live in a global village look at these forums. Essentially we will have to go off world at some point. But that also will be robots. But its this attitude about claiming benefits. Its there for a reason. To stop peasant revolts.

My mate from uni is an idiot he is standing for Election as an MP. He gets all the benefits possible . His parents have money but that isn't counted. But he has the write kind of face. OMG he might even get elected. I just want to state I am exercise my democratic right as a british citizen to vent about the system I live under Such are the sensitive times we live in lol.
 
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