The Imperial Clipper needs a buff/rework

Technically, assuming Rubbernuke is correct in saying the alliance ships outshine the fed ones, the pecking order now goes:
  1. Alliance ships (x3)
  2. Federation ships (x4)
  3. Empire ships (x3)

You are aware there are actually 4 ships with the Imperial tag.?

Do not forget the Imperial Eagle. A fine ship in its own right.

So if you include the T10 for the alliance as suggested earlier...

  1. Alliance ships (x4)
  2. Federation ships (x4)
  3. Empire ships (x4)

I do feel they are all on a par though, with each fleet having its own ideology of ship builds. Do not think its as simple as my ship can shoot your ship so it is better.
 
Sure, but it doesn't lead to the Cutter being rarely used by commanders, it's one of the most popular ships. The Clipper has no real significant downsides either, nor does it have significant upsides. That's sort of the problem.

Looking at INARA the Cutter is the least used out of the big 3- its roughly half of the Corvette (but with similar ownership).

And re the Clipper: these are significant, surely?

Its one of the fastest ships out there for its internal size
Its one of the best ramming ships
Lots of internal space
Its low cost
OK range
Looks (i.e. its not a copy / paste of another ship inside)
Modestly armed
Hardpoints badly placed (so gimbals)
L pad only

While I do agree with your second statement I'm afraid it's already too late for that, with the exception for pure combat orientated vessels. Saud Kruger ships no longer have passenger locked slots anymore either for example. The game has been trending towards homogenization of ships for quite some time and well if it were up to me I would say no but the damage is already done. Hence my point of buffing the Clipper to make it more viable.

And my view is that FD need to stop before they wreck even more, and sort out real problems like the Asp Scout. Making the Imperial ships even better is not the answer, because they are already subjectively the best now.
 
The conda is way more op than the python. The python's mass actually makes sense for its size. Still, change nothing, all this stuff has existed for multiple years and would have tremendous backlash. The only acceptable action would be adjust the clipper 😉😉😉😉😉😉


Yes Mick, but, rather than recall all of the 3.6 ton lorries and fit them with larger wheels, bigger capacity bed and a Perkins six pot and a larger fuel tank, a heavy duty battery and a more sturdy gearbox with high and low range, just make a Clipper Series II (mk 2 is so uncouth)
The Clipper Series II could have all of the foibles ironed out and fit on a Medium pad to boot, that way it's about choice... something that should be at the heart of ED and its community.
 
...
And my view is that FD need to stop before they wreck even more, and sort out real problems like the Asp Scout. Making the Imperial ships even better is not the answer, because they are already subjectively the best now.
Yep - I kinda agree with this - but not entirely...

Of the 3 (well, 4) Imperial ships only one really stands out: the Cutter. It's undoubtedly the best at large pad cargo hauling. You can't get more stuff in a ship. T9 is close, but Cutter carries the most, so if you have "lots of stuff" to get from A to B, you get a Cutter. The other 2 aren't "the best" at anything really. That's why I think they are less used. But to me that's OK. You can only really have 1 "the best" ship, so if you make the Clipper better than the Python at - say - medium pad mining then we'll be having this conversation about the Python in 6 months time. If they improved the Clipper then I'd be happy, but I use it now anyway. If they brought out a medium Imperial ship then sign me up for 2.

Now - the AspS. You have some people who love it, but they'd still love it with a massive discount to the price. The DBX is 1.9m. The AspS is 3.9. the DBX is a much better ship in practically every way. The AspS would be slightly overpriced at 2m. I'm just not sure you can fix the AspS. There's no niche I can see for it to fill.

If you want to "fix" the AspS, just make a new ship and sandwich it between the AspS and AspX, but that's a tricky balancing act right there.
 
Looking at INARA the Cutter is the least used out of the big 3- its roughly half of the Corvette (but with similar ownership).

It's least used yes but it's certainly still a highly popular ship. The Cutter, with a cost of 750m-1bil is more commonly owned and used than the Clipper and Courier. You could argue cost doesn't matter but the Python, AspX and Krait Mk2 are more popular still. People are perhaps more inclined to put the Corvette as their main since it's their best combat ship, while their Cutters are more for trading and mining and other uses. I was one of those people.

And re the Clipper: these are significant, surely?

Apart from the speed and looks and perhaps the L pad I wouldn't say the things you listed are very significant at all. The ramming is nice for PvP I guess, can't really comment on that. "OK range" already implies it's not really good but not also not really bad, which sort of sums up the whole ship. Good internal space is something I disagree with, it's a large ship with a hull mass of an Anaconda, yet it has less space than a Python and barely more than a Mk2.

And my view is that FD need to stop before they wreck even more, and sort out real problems like the Asp Scout. Making the Imperial ships even better is not the answer, because they are already subjectively the best now.

Why not both? Although I agree with that the AspS needs fixing, it will be quite difficult to fix in comparison to the Clipper. The Clipper needs a little buff here and there whereas with the Asp Scout it kind of needs a whole redesign.

Imperial ships are already the best? What? Like another person said the only one that really stands out is the Cutter. For the Federation this is the Corvette and for the Alliance it's the Chieftain. The other faction ships all have something going for them, perhaps not the Crusader and the FAS (atm), but neither does the Clipper. Yes the Clipper has fast speed, but the Crusader has an SLF, surely a very good ship then.
 
Apart from the speed and looks and perhaps the L pad I wouldn't say the things you listed are very significant at all. The ramming is nice for PvP I guess, can't really comment on that. "OK range" already implies it's not really good but not also not really bad, which sort of sums up the whole ship. Good internal space is something I disagree with, it's a large ship with a hull mass of an Anaconda, yet it has less space than a Python and barely more than a Mk2.

But fits a piracy MO right on the nose- or a really, really fast transport or recovery vessel. It can't be good at everything, and its not- but its not Python or Krait dull though.

Why not both? Although I agree with that the AspS needs fixing, it will be quite difficult to fix in comparison to the Clipper. The Clipper needs a little buff here and there whereas with the Asp Scout it kind of needs a whole redesign.

You fix things that need fixing. We have a core of ships that do just fine- Python, Krait, Krait Phantom, moving outside that you have the T-7 which does need to be M pad, and moving further out the Dropship, and further out again the Clipper- but the core pool of ships should be small, otherwise everything is similar- which defeats the object of having unique ships.

Imperial ships are already the best? What? Like another person said the only one that really stands out is the Cutter. For the Federation this is the Corvette and for the Alliance it's the Chieftain. The other faction ships all have something going for them, perhaps not the Crusader and the FAS (atm), but neither does the Clipper. Yes the Clipper has fast speed, but the Crusader has an SLF, surely a very good ship then.

iEagle is a really good fighter, arguably more useful than the Eagle and one of the fastest ships in the game.

iCourier is ungankable due to its speed, chunky shields for its size making it one of the best small ships in the game.

The Clipper is a blazingly fast, cheap transporter, and hard to catch. Its also a potent gank machine and rammer.

The Cutter is the best cargo hauler, its untouchable with its combo of high speed, internal space and defence potential.

Those are great ships, and are a much more rounded spread than what the other superpowers have.
 
iEagle is a really good fighter, arguably more useful than the Eagle and one of the fastest ships in the game.

iCourier is ungankable due to its speed, chunky shields for its size making it one of the best small ships in the game.

The Clipper is a blazingly fast, cheap transporter, and hard to catch. Its also a potent gank machine and rammer.

The Cutter is the best cargo hauler, its untouchable with its combo of high speed, internal space and defence potential.

Those are great ships, and are a much more rounded spread than what the other superpowers have.
Arguably the only change I would love for the Clipper and T7 is making them M pad.
It would make both a more viable alternative as a hauler to the Python (which is the uncrowned M pad mission runner king),
but keep them distinctive.
 
Arguably the only change I would love for the Clipper and T7 is making them M pad.
It would make both a more viable alternative as a hauler to the Python (which is the uncrowned M pad mission runner king),
but keep them distinctive.

The T-7 for certain, it needs to be what a T-9 is to a Cutter. Although it triggers me slightly, I'd take sedatives and agree to Clippers on an M pad in exchange for the FDL having its old issues back re power and heat.
 
I like the Courier a lot as a lightweight NPC bounty hunter ship, it is surprisingly good, and shields/speed.
I'd not be unhappy if the Clipper was Medium, mine gets used very rarely but I am loathe to get rid of it as it does have that inspiring turn of speed for a 'large' ship :)
 
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Arguably the only change I would love for the Clipper and T7 is making them M pad.
It would make both a more viable alternative as a hauler to the Python (which is the uncrowned M pad mission runner king),
but keep them distinctive.
I'd agree. You'd have a choice for M pad missions:
Python for trouble you can shoot your way out of. Clipper for trouble you need to run away from.
 
Ah yes, I remember 2015 and passionately arguing to improve the Clipper.
And 16, and 17....

The FDL and the Type-9 got majority improved.
But alas the Clipper must be forever useless.
Don’t change it‘s internals to make it a true heavy hitter and keep it on the large pad.
Don’t change it’s size to let it land on a medium.

The Krait series got launched to fill the gaps with no negatives at all. So no need to ask anymore.
 
You are aware there are actually 4 ships with the Imperial tag.?

Do not forget the Imperial Eagle. A fine ship in its own right.

So if you include the T10 for the alliance as suggested earlier...

  1. Alliance ships (x4)
  2. Federation ships (x4)
  3. Empire ships (x4)

I do feel they are all on a par though, with each fleet having its own ideology of ship builds. Do not think its as simple as my ship can shoot your ship so it is better.
Yeah , I had already broached the other ships, link and quote below. And if you are seriously suggesting we take an eagle variant as an equivalent to one of the three fed medium ships; that aint gonna happen.

To start off the feds have 4 ships vs our 3, speaking of rank locked ships so excluding our iEagle and their vulture and regular eagle.

Core Dynamics = Federal ship builder
Gutamaya = Imperial ship builder
Ergo anything made by those manufacturers is to be associated with their affiliate power.

  • Courier roughly equal to vulture
    • But for this comparison I elected to take the courier as the imperial counter to the drop ship, and ingore the vulture.
  • Clipper roughly equal to FAS
  • Cutter & Corvette roughly equal in power but at totally different ends of spectrum
  • No imperial equivalent to Federal Gun Ship
 
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...Clipper roughly equal to FAS...

Not sure I can really agree with this unless the FAS got a speed, jumprange and slight capacity bump. The ship lines don't really give apples to apples comparisons. Sure they fight about the same, anything else and the clipper wins.

Honestly I'm not against giving both the Corvette and the clipper a light boost in jump range.

I don't really think the Vette needs the boost. Especially in the post engineering and guardian module version of the game we currently have.
 
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For cargo runs i have a cutter, for mining and passengers a python. Clipper doesn't feel right for those.
Overall i like my clipper pretty much for my casual flying, and go-to-places ship, because i feel safe in it, and the speed and maneuverability make it awesome to fly.

I recently got a Clipper for exploration, and then immediately parked it.

Cutter is more comfy, better fuel tank, and sounds better, smoother. But mostly it was the bright blue-purple dashboard that I don't like on the clipper. I don't like how it mashes with the HUD. I find the visual interference annoying. If the interior lights could be dimmed that might help.
 
Yeah , I had already broached the other ships, link and quote below. And if you are seriously suggesting we take an eagle variant as an equivalent to one of the three fed medium ships; that aint gonna happen.



Core Dynamics = Federal ship builder
Gutamaya = Imperial ship builder
Ergo anything made by those manufacturers is to be associated with their affiliate power.

  • Courier roughly equal to vulture
    • But for this comparison I elected to take the courier as the imperial counter to the drop ship, and ingore the vulture.
  • Clipper roughly equal to FAS
  • Cutter & Corvette roughly equal in power but at totally different ends of spectrum
  • No imperial equivalent to Federal Gun Ship
Ah. It feels to me like you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

Federation have very different values to Imperial, the same as again they are both very different to Alliance.

I would say you cannot truly compare their ships like that, as they do not share an ideology behind their design. they are built to do very different things, in very different ways, by very different peoples.

And then we can also add in the truly independent ships and where they fit in the grand scheme of things.

But that is just the way I see it.
 
Not sure I can really agree with this unless the FAS got a speed, jumprange and slight capacity bump. The ship lines don't really give apples to apples comparisons. Sure they fight about the same, anything else and the clipper wins.
Ah. It feels to me like you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

Federation have very different values to Imperial, the same as again they are both very different to Alliance.

I would say you cannot truly compare their ships like that, as they do not share an ideology behind their design. they are built to do very different things, in very different ways, by very different peoples.

And then we can also add in the truly independent ships and where they fit in the grand scheme of things.

But that is just the way I see it.

The opposing superpowers military vehicles, despite their vastly differing dorctrines, would end up converging either in similar capabilities, or in counters to each others approach. Take a look at the cold war and Nato's military hardware compared to soviet equipment...

Soviet Tanks were heavily armoured, had a turret, and varying weapons - so did Nato tanks. Slight nuance being that Nato tanks had higher technology weapons, russian tanks were more numerous and more heavily armoured. Would be a close run fight on a battlefield.
Nato submarines were quiet, deep water capable, carried a mix of missiles and torpedoes and were either diesel-electric or nuclear powered, so were soviet submarines. Was a very close run thing in the deapths.
Airpower is where we have the biggest divergence, Nato favoured setalth and beyond visual range weapons systems in the air, russia favoured strong Anti Aircraft defences such as SAM's and highly manouevrable fighters geared for dogfighting. So the Nato Jets would shoot down the Soviet jets before the Soviets had close enough to play to their strengths, but most Nato Jets, except the stealth bombers B2 and F117a, would likely never get past enough of the sam sites to get deep enough into soviet territory to encounter soviet jets. Would most likely be a stalemate in the air.

So if Nato and the soviets had mostly convergent but some countering designs of weapons systems its reasonable to expect imperials and federals to have similar levels of capabilities in their ships. Even if its not, for the sake of balance, or game play, there ought to be a relative comparability between the powers ships.

I like the Cutter / Corvette application of divergent approaches creating different ships of similar power levels focussed on different roles, on balance they are fair. Even the courier for all its diminutive proportions and comparatively weak firepower relative to the fed three medium ships, balances this with superior shielding, speed and agility, so its fair.

But the clipper has too many draw backs, large pad, fragile hull, pathetic shields (courier and vulture have stronger shields than a clipper), significantly less firepower, horific weapons convergence, smaller power distributor, mediocre cargo capacity (less than a python or Krait). The clipper ought to balance against a FGS and a FAS. It's outgunned by FGS & Krait & Python. It's got less shields than Krait & Python, but only slightly more than FGS, whcih is using class 6 shield on class 7 distributor, vs clipper class 7 shields on class 6 distributor, drastically hurting its relative recharge rates, meaning effectively weaker, or at least less usable shields on the clipper. The FAS can keep up with a clipper in a twisty fight, and the clipper is only slightly faster at running away. The clippers cargo capacity is less than a Python, only slightly more than a krait. Krait Mkii and FGS have the ability to launch SLF's.

With the FGS having, bigger distributor, additional hardpoints, and SLF capability it is totally over powered compared to a clipper.
 
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