The Juicy Feedback Fdev was wanting. The reason Open sucks for everybody.

[BigF]

I play in Möbius for the most part although when I'm no where near CGs or starter systems I do partake in open.

I agree with others, open is like matchmaking with cqc options, and is not for every ones taste.

to be honest you don't really need open unless you want to pvp as everything else is available in private or solo groups.

open should be the play area for all as it was envisioned in the original beta and alpha.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

This game is advertised as a multiplayer game where you can hunt other cmdrs among other things.

PG and solo are not the msinstream modes. This is a MUTIPLAYER game, solo doesnt fit that description, PG - sort of.

Open is the primary mode. Devs play in open on streams. Lore events such as Salome is open only.

You have other modes from reasons I wont write here, this is an open multiplayer game in its core.

It's an online game with some optional multiplayer aspects.

 

[Sole Hunter]

The real arrogance here is to assume open is not special. It is special in the sense that we have very deep impacting social interactions in open while other game mode do not. Every action you do in open as an impact or indirect consequence on the universe - i.e if I kill you, you can't go on about doing your task or if I killed the NPC "Salami" then the story change.

One of the essential aspects of Elite Dangerous hinges on the reputation that a character builds for themselves. As the in game activities of players are associated with the name and the aforementioned reputation they have gained, but also all the players you may have interacted with, even if indirectly.

When events are happening in the safety of solo or private groups we have no other way to prevent them from happening but to play in one specific way which is to use the same tools that solo and private group players have at their disposition. Why do we have open in the first place if player interactions are meaningless?

This is where the problems lays, this is why OP is advocating to have a separate background simulation. We are not asking you to stop playing the game. We are asking to have a fair middle ground so these issues are not preventing you from getting an unfair advantage over open players which is just that.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

This thread is about viewing open as the basis of the game, when it isn't. Open is nothing more than a matchmaking choice you make when logging into the game. All modes and platforms have equal access to the basic functions of the game. To change that, would be to devalue the game for all of those players that prefer to play in Solo or PG's for no reason other than arrogance. the arrogance to assume open is special. It isn't. And, it never was. Al three of the modes were part of the game right from the start.

If a consumer buys a product that consumer should know what the product does. If they don't, they should find out, before buying the product. If they do decide to buy a product, with out understanding it, they only have themselves to blame.

The bottom line is: You can only expect to play along side those that enjoy the same environment as you. Nothing more. I don't expect those in open to play as I wish to. And, you don;t see me telling them that they should. I expect the rest of the player base to do the same. You knew the rules coming in, learn to live with them. We will all be happier if you can.

Its funny you know. Watching every suggestion for making "PVP" meaningful in elite dangerous besides 1v1's or consensual pvp GET SHOT DOWN.

Im even talking about rewarding the traders too. Adjusting powerplay options. Whatever, there have been numerous suggestions.

And they all get shot down over and over and over. When it was an intended part of this game. They did not build this game thinking. HEY were gonna create this awesome space game with multicannons and lasers! But ya'll better 1v1 and you better not kill a trader!

But instead, we have people whining over this. And the same people whining over this. Arent even taking part in the actions anyways. They dont use powerplay, accept maybe for modules or roleplay. But powerplay should be a working machine and its not.

Player factions the same thing. Its supposed to be a working machine and its not. We are asking to make changes so things work. We all know they dont work.

But ive seen no suggestions out of you to make PVP worth while. Im trying to work with what we've got.

Only whining because youre afraid solo/private mode gameplay will be effected in some odd way. When it wont. it can stay the same as it is now. Just add incentives to open, I mean player interaction and the ability to shoot each other is the only thing separating the game modes. And there is no reward for doing it. Thats why no one plays in open. Simple fact. Thats why you see people saying "OH go to mobius! No griefers there!".

The proof is all over the forums. They want people to pvp and fight over territory. They want people to blow up traders. They want people to group up in wings and PVE too. They want people to play all aspects of the game. And they want it balanced.

Right now |----|--------| PVP bar |--------------|--| PVE bar. ( Yes I am aware everyone pves.) They know its one sided. But its not one sided just because people like PVE content. They used to like PVP content, or PVP content is too hard to chase.

So mix the fix I originally stated, give PVPers an outlet. And you'll see less "griefing". And more gameplay.

The statistically "griefing" by numbers goes down by default. And PVPers will have something more to do. And more people would get involved in it as well.

Sorry man, its healthy for the game. People want to do this. And you have always had the option to opt out.

PVP is just as important if not more important than PVE activity. PVP was built into this game by default. They will balance it. Even through PVE activities.

Again, I am thinking outside the box here. There are many changes that can be done that gives the same result. But in the end. Something will be done to promote PVP aspects of this game.

The games evolving bro. Thats just the way it is. o7

 

[Mohrgan]

This game is advertised as a multiplayer game where you can hunt other cmdrs among other things.

PG and solo are not the msinstream modes. This is a MUTIPLAYER game, solo doesnt fit that description, PG - sort of.

Open is the primary mode. Devs play in open on streams. Lore events such as Salome is open only.

You have other modes from reasons I wont write here, this is an open multiplayer game in its core.

These are assumptions you make. Not allowing for the other interpretations that the rule set includes. I can get the multiplayer experience without open. And, I suggest it, to those that don't want to PvP. The game was also advertised to have three modes of play, including a Solo mode, right from the start. What does that do to your assertion that Elite is a multiplayer game? Open is multiplayer game at it's core, that does not mean the game is.

The Dev's are doing what they can to encourage the use of open, and open is the only way the Dev's can be sure to offer equal access to their content, when it's curated. Anything other than timed events are available equally over each of the modes.

If you look at overall populations, as seen in the recent mega-survey, you will see that more people play outside of open, than do play in open. Each of the matchmaking choices are represented pretty well. There is no way to dismiss the fact that Elite is advertised to be many things, to many people. Get what you want from it, but leave others to do the same. That seems simple enough.

 

[Mohrgan]

As long as ED is a constantly evolving product I don't see why 90's expectations can't be soberly considered instead of just dismissively waving them away.

Just because Fdev is currently strapped down to the concept of appeasing the crowd who want the same access and ability to effect the game universe without the same level of risk as Open players doesn't mean they won't eventually snap out of their trance.

Having this conversation, and disagreeing with the OP does discuss his concerns soberly. There have been any number of sober counter arguments to the OP's contentions. Not agreeing with the OP's analysis does not detract from a sober discussion.

Even in open, that extra risk is there by choice. How many times have we heard: 'open's not that bad', 'if you stay away from hot spots', and all of that. Open is what it is, to whomever is looking at it. Leave it at that. FD are not in a trance, they are just averting their gaze so they don;t have to answer this for every new player that comes along. Look at the rules, three modes from the beginning, that should say it all.

 

[Mohrgan]

The real arrogance here is to assume open is not special. It is special in the sense that we have very deep impacting social interactions in open while other game modes do not. Every action you do such as PVP as an impact or consequence on how the universe evolve - i.e if I kill you, you cannot go on about doing your task or if I killed "Salami" then the story change.

When events are happening in the safety of solo or private groups we have no other way to prevent them from happening but to play in one specific way which is to use the same tools that solo and private group players have to their disposition. Why have open in the first place if player interactions are meaningless after all ?

This is where the problems lays, this is why OP is advocating to have a separate background simulation. We are not asking you to stop playing the game. We are asking to have a fair middle ground so these issues are not preventing you from getting an unfair advantage. That's why other players have also suggested to have a PVE game mode with a different background simulation.

The feedback he provided is very valid and this is why Elite will never succeed as a true sandbox experience. I don't even understand why people call it a Sandbox in the first place because it really isn't a sandbox.

Open is there for those that enjoy playing the game along with others. It has evolved into being there for those that enjoy it's environment, but it was never the supreme way to play the game. I offer the fact that the modes were exactly as they are now, since the inception, as evidence. Open is no different than Solo or PG to the game. It is just a different option to choose from. This has been the case from step one in the design phase. You'll just have to come to grips with the fact that Elite is many things, to many players. PvP'ers have no special rights to the game's features.

Labels. If we could just stay off of labels, and get on with our games, we'd all be happier. Sandbox, MMO, FPS, are just phrases people use to pigeonhole games, and force an agenda. There is no reason FD has to meet theses expectations. Live and let live. Play and let play.

 

[Sole Hunter]

Open is there for those that enjoy playing the game along with others. It has evolved into being there for those that enjoy it's environment, but it was never the supreme way to play the game. I offer the fact that the modes were exactly as they are now, since the inception, as evidence. Open is no different than Solo or PG to the game. It is just a different option to choose from. This has been the case from step one in the design phase. You'll just have to come to grips with the fact that Elite is many things, to many players. PvP'ers have no special rights to the game's features.

Labels. If we could just stay off of labels, and get on with our games, we'd all be happier. Sandbox, MMO, FPS, are just phrases people use to pigeonhole games, and force an agenda. There is no reason FD has to meet theses expectations. Live and let live. Play and let play.

You're wrong and it hurt my eyes to read that text.

One of the essential aspects of Elite Dangerous hinges on the reputation that a character builds for themselves. As the in game activities of players are associated with the name and the aforementioned reputation they have gained, but also all the players you may have interacted with, even if indirectly. Open is just that, it's not just an environment like solo.

Whether you disagree or not. This distinction is very important and it wouldn't be that important if Elite Dangerous was simply a singleplayer game. The reality is that while open may be a different option to choose from in the game menu, it is incredibly different in the way it was designed due to the indirect and direct actions with players surrounding your so called environment.

This is why open players are advocating to separate the background simulation.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Less is more.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

This is why open players are advocating to separate the background simulation.

I play in Open and I'm not advocating any such thing. It's fine as it is.

 

[Sole Hunter]

I play in Open and I'm not advocating any such thing. It's fine as it is.

Sigh..

I'm not saying all do but many do like me. Reading between the lines seems to be a difficult task.

 

[Mohrgan]

You're wrong and it hurt my eyes to read that text.

One of the essential aspects of Elite Dangerous hinges on the reputation that a character builds for themselves. As the in game activities of players are associated with the name and the aforementioned reputation they have gained, but also all the players you may have interacted with, even if indirectly. Open is just that, it's not just an environment like solo.

Whether you disagree or not. This distinction is very important and it wouldn't be that important if Elite Dangerous was simply a singleplayer game. The reality is that while open may be a different option to choose from in the game menu, it is incredibly different in the way it was designed due to the indirect and direct actions with players surrounding your so called environment.

This is why open players are advocating to separate the background simulation.

You seek to over value player interaction. If it is so essential, why was Solo, and PG designed in to the game, and defended by the Dev's since? There are no rules in the game that values interaction enough to reward it. All of that touchy-feelly stuff about player interaction is a personal philosophy of yours, but has no bearing on how the rest of us should play. In the end, player interaction can be avoided, just as easily in open as in a PG. I've seen that written in these forums any number of times.

Open is nothing special, neither are the players that use it.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

You seek to over value player interaction. If it is so essential, why was Solo, and PG designed in to the game, and defended by the Dev's since? There are no rules in the game that values interaction enough to reward it. All of that touchy-feelly stuff about player interaction is a personal philosophy of yours, but has no bearing on how the rest of us should play. In the end, player interaction can be avoided, just as easily in open as in a PG. I've seen that written in these forums any number of times.

Open is nothing special, neither are the players that use it.

Solo and pg are there to compensate the crying backers who live in 1984 and want a single player game.
This game is an open multiplayer. Everything else is added on top of that.

 

[Mohrgan]

Solo and pg are there to compensate the crying backers who live in 1984 and want a single player game.
This game is an open multiplayer. Everything else is added on top of that.

Ok, you want to rewrite history as well. I can now simply regard your assertions with the merit they deserve.

 

[Sole Hunter]

You seek to over value player interaction. If it is so essential, why was Solo, and PG designed in to the game, and defended by the Dev's since? There are no rules in the game that values interaction enough to reward it. All of that touchy-feelly stuff about player interaction is a personal philosophy of yours, but has no bearing on how the rest of us should play. In the end, player interaction can be avoided, just as easily in open as in a PG. I've seen that written in these forums any number of times.

Open is nothing special, neither are the players that use it.

Alright then why is Solo and Private groups still connected to the multiplayer server if there's nothing special about it?

Why do we even have a forum to discuss thing's if player interactions are so over valued?

Clearly, Frontier believe the multiplayer aspect of the game and being online at all time was important enough to make it permanent during development and so are players opinions or they wouldn't have live streams, fan festivals and in-game events with us. They definitely value their fans or they wouldn't do all of these thing's.

It's not 1984 anymore.

 

[Morkel]

Solo and pg are there to compensate the crying backers who live in 1984 and want a single player game.
This game is an open multiplayer. Everything else is added on top of that.

If things were equal you would see more people in open. But right now these so called PVP people end up in a sidewinder at the end of the day because they cannot live up to the consequences of their actions. The game also needs a decent C&P system, so that trading in High security systems actually feels that way. Leave the anarchy systems to the outlaws and make traders fear these places.

Saying that people are crying because they simply dont want to play the game the same way you do just makes you sound like an angry 12 year old.

If these people could play together as well as work together to some degree would be perfect. But as it is right now many people just shoot down noobs, traders and explorers in highly engineered ships and it has no consequence at all, only for the victim. This is the problem with the current game.

 

[Crank Larson]

Again, if the Engineers are unbalanced for us PVPers. Then the rest of you dont stand a chance. The only thing ya'll can do is run and high-wake away. And thats not fun for you, and thats not fun for us. Cause trust me, people want to fight back. But its not worth their time. And its not worth their credits.

Trust me, many people couldn't care less about fighting back. Successfully running away can be quite satisfying, as it happens (credits and time are little to do with it).

I wouldn't be against less randomness and more skill or choice being involved in engineering, but likewise I am quite happy with how it is at the moment. It's not unbalanced, as everyone has the same opportunities - even if the outcome will never be the same.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Open is nothing special, neither are the players that use it.

Really. Right on the money. Well said.
You "Must be in Open/You must PvP with us" types really should talk a lot less.
I'm a big believer in the validity of all three play modes being able to suit the vast majority of the player base - do what you want in Open - I could care less. But the last two pages of drivel about how you guys are apparently special, how the game should tailor to what you want because you assume the "risks" (in a space ship video game!), etc, etc, with the same uber Open player stuff as always does you an immense disservice and hurts your cause. Little snippets like these make it real easy to dismiss any valid proposal you may have.

Clearly this may may be a shock but this constant refrain of "risk" in Open is laughable. This is a computer game about space ships! Risk!?! There is none. Rebuy is not "risk." Here is your surprise: It's not "risk" that keeps people out of Open - they just don't want to put up with the phoney baloney antics of some of the Open players. Very simple concept. They want to play a space ship game the way they want and not to be your content. Stop demonstrating the bankruptcy of Open play. The other two modes aren't begging for you to come to Solo or PG. It's always the Open players wanting more targets...err...player interaction. How about some folks don't want to play with you. Don't want to interact. And just want to play a game, their way not yours, in their off time.

Station rammers always make for a good game right?. As do pad blockers and mine droppers. And let's not forget my favorite - the one that has macros assigned for obscenities so he can spam the Chat channel with constant foul language. This all really adds to the game and makes Open a good vehicle for gameplay eh?

 

[Mohrgan]

Okay then why is Solo and Private groups still connected to the multiplayer server if there's nothing special about it?

Why do we even have a forum to discuss thing's if player interactions are so over valued?

Clearly, Frontier believe the multiplayer aspect of the game and being online at all time was enough important to make it permanent during development and so are players opinions or they wouldn't have live streams, fan festivals and in-game events with us. They definitely value their fans or they wouldn't do all of these thing's.

It's not 1984 anymore.

Because, all of the modes are connected to the BGS. That's why all three modes are connected. Because they are all part of the same galaxy simulation, with matchmaking options available to the individual player.

Is Solitaire a multiplayer game? If having a forum is the basic requirement, computer solitaire is a multiplayer game. https://www.trueachievements.com/game/Microsoft-Solitaire-Collection/forum
There are forums for almost everything, that can't be used to shoehorn Elite into following your personal vision . Marketing devices can't answer this question either. Having fans, doesn't mean that the open environment is the pinnacle of Elite gaming. All three modes share the BGS server. Direct Multiplayer is optional.

Really.
You "Must be in Open/You must PvP with us" types really should talk a lot less.
I'm a big believer in the validity of all three play modes being able to suit the vast majority of the player base - do what you want in Open - I could care less. But the last two pages of drivel about how you guys are apparently special, how the game should tailor to what you want because you assume the "risks" (in a space ship video game!), etc, etc, with the same uber Open player stuff as always does you an immense disservice and hurts your cause. Little snippets like these make it real easy to dismiss any valid proposal you may have.

Clearly this may may be a shock but this constant refrain of "risk" in Open is laughable. This is a computer game about space ships! Risk!?! There is none. Rebuy is not "risk." Here is your surprise: It's not "risk" that keeps people out of Open - they just don't want to put up with the phoney baloney antics of some of the Open players. Very simple concept. They want to play a...space ship game the way they want and not to be your content. Stop demonstrating the bankruptcy of Open play. The other two modes aren't begging for you to come to Solo or PG. It's always the Open players wanting more targets...err...player interaction. How about some folks don't want to play with you. Don't want to interact. And just want to play a game in their off time.

Station rammers always make for a good game right?. As do pad blockers and mine droppers. And let's not forget my favorite - the one that has macros assigned for obscenities so he can spam the Chat channel with constant foul language. This all really adds to the game and makes Open a good vehicle for gameplay eh?

You may have quoted the wrong thing? What you quoted agrees with your stance. Was that intended?

 

[Sole Hunter]

Because, all of the modes are connected to the BGS. That's why all three modes are connected. Because they are all part of the same galaxy simulation, with matchmaking options available to the individual player.

Is Solitaire a multiplayer game? If having a forum is the basic requirement, computer solitaire is a multiplayer game. https://www.trueachievements.com/game/Microsoft-Solitaire-Collection/forum
There are forums for almost everything, that can't be used to shoehorn Elite into following your personal vision . Marketing devices can't answer this question either. Having fans, doesn't mean that the open environment is the pinnacle of Elite gaming. All three modes share the BGS server. Direct Multiplayer is optional.



You may have quoted the wrong thing? What you quoted agrees with your stance. Was that intended?

You didn't actually answer my question about the multiplayer aspect of the game, we already know that the 3 modes are connected to the BGS and you just basically proved my point by providing a forum with feedback and developers interacting with their userbase.

Let's establish some facts :

A) Multiplayer was made possible because they wanted to make updates easier for the game. That doesn't mean the background simulation is necessary to be shared across all game modes. We already know that because it was mentioned during kickstarter the development process. Which is why many players are advocating to have a different BGS for open versus solo and private groups because of the aforementioned issues in my previous post.

B) We have events, a forum board and other avenue of communication such as reddit, twitter, facebook, discord and other social media platforms not only because they want to market Elite Dangerous as product but because they want to have player interacting with each other and because they value their customer opinions. Then why else would we need to have community managers in the first place? Why else would they bother doing live streams, fan-fest events like the cringy gamescon Q&A panel. This is the nature of game development nowadays and was one of the main reason why they chose to launch the game on kickstarter.

C) There's two type of players on these forums, the 1984 white knight fan-bros who still live in this delusional fantasy world and can't do the distinction between a multiplayer game and a single player game and then we have the fan-bros who are highly critical of the game and know very clearly the distinction between a multiplayer game and a single player game. Both want the best for the game but both disagree on these facts.

Crazy stuff isn't it?