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the negative community narrative and the confirmation bias effect.
- Thread starter Boff'in
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So I read that you had previously rage quit and was curious to the reasons why and found a similar thread from 2016, where you were quoting financial reports to support your claim that the players were not receiving appropriate returns on their investments (or something along the lines of FDev was just milking cash from ED for some nefarious reason) and ultimately Ian posted this response and locked the thread:
There have been several similar reponses already in this thread, so it seems there is a pattern here. Either you're trolling, or we're all incapable of understanding your greatness.
Reaching a conclusion based on solid evidence is not at all the same thing as treating the conclusion as a "fact". I used well-referenced facts to support my argument and explained my reasoning. I never stated that my conclusion was a "fact", I stated that it was based on my citations which are well-referenced facts. If you want to present a proper counter-argument you need to actually deal with those facts. Simply yelling "Speculation!" over and over doesn't actually add anything to the discussion.
And yet we've see that FD follows these forums and listens to the playerbase when they are making changes to the game. I might not individually have any control or influence over what FD does but when a significant proportion of the player base expresses similar concerns I expect that FD will listen. Suggesting that discussion on these forums has "no bearing on the game's development" is just not true.
It's a constant balance between the customers and the shareholders, like it is with any publically traded company. The shareholders have a strong voice and a seat at the table when business and development decisions are made. They will try to push as much profit out of a company as they possibly can because that is all it is to them, an investment with a bottom line. Customers might not have a direct "voice" in decision but they are ultimately necessary for that money to be made. FD can't ignore the customers indefinitely if they want a viable franchise for Elite. If a company makes a good product it will sell itself, if the quality of the product declines then customers will go elsewhere and shareholders will ultimately make less money in the end so really everyone loses at that point. It's a system that only works when customers have a voice that FD and the gaming community can hear and that is what these forums represent.
We're getting Beyond for "free" because FD has recognized that they have to start giving something back to the customers again after 2 years of neglected Horizons development or they won't have a viable franchise for Elite for much longer. FD would not be leaving money on the table if they thought they could keep running the game the way they have over the last 2 years and the forums have been a major part of that realization for FD.
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Seriously?
I never "rage quit". It's like you're just flat-out making things up now.
Citation needed.
I have simply given up. It's very liberating.
Except that Mark Allen on the stream today said he was working on beyond before he got to the Thargons. Looks like more pointless speculation with zero basis in any facts.
I don't know the person myself.
I think this was a bit too much man.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
So, what was the OP again? And would it be possible to get back to discussing it?
Do you actually understand why many players are unhappy with how Horizons turned out? If you can't explain this back to me then this entire discussion is not productive because you don't even understand the problem I'm describing.
Horizons will have taken a full 2 years now once we reach the end of 2017. The expected plan for season expansions was to have Horizons content delivered over 1 year.
Like I stated above, if you don't understand why many players are unhappy with the content that was delivered with Horizons then I'm not surprized that you don't understand this.
You made a claim that was demonstrably false based on publically-available financial reports.
You suggested that money from Planet Coaster was "likely" being used to develop Elite. That just makes no sense at all. I've shown you it was exactly the opposite.
Did you actually read the links I provided as citations? At this point it's clear you haven't even bothered reading the information I've referenced.
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The pattern seemingly being he was right all along.
Furthermore, while I agree with the responder on many points, there are two things here I would say.
Is also flawed logic. It's my money, and I get to decide whether the LEP I paid for is providing value, or indeed to give FD any more of it. So it is my business.
Maybe it has become clear I currently require more information than most, in order to make an informed decision?
Is something FD are wholesale guilty of from top to bottom. I find this somewhat confusing.
I wish my cousin Ned was here.
He knows these things.
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Well, I think it boiled down to:
Frontier makes software.
Frontier uses the money gained from said software to fund more software.
Some people are getting all het up over speculative details about the above.
I think that about covers it.
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You are not a clever one are you.
I understand fully, but that has nothing to do minimum viable product. People are unhappy with some of the design decisions.
2.3 was given an autumn release date and was 3 months and 11 days late. 2.4 was never given a date.
You are taking words out of my mouth, I refer to the reply above.
Nothing in the financial reports suggests what I said was false. I have read them myself.
Why is it. It's not like it is all ring fenced off for each product. In my company we sell products that help fund the next product we want to sell. This is standard practice. Why can you not understand this basic principle.
Yes I did, and I say again then only one which I agree on is that some money from ED went to the development of Planet Coaster which again, I will say is normal standard business practice.
He seems to know you. Must have the whole thing confused with something else. Apologies.
You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension.
Nowhere in that post did I say that they should "only develop Planet Coaster using pre-orders". I stated that they funnelled Elite revenue into Planet Coaster before they had properly developed Horizons content.
I actually did mention where I thought the additional money to develop Planet Coaster should come from in the context of Elite development, but you'll have to go back and re-read that post and show me you actually read it yourself.
I don't think you are in the position to dictate what I need to do.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Thats enough everyone. Hint not taken.
Closing.
Closing.
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