The new crime and punishment system will adversely effect the way we manipulate the BGS

[Vicktore Beskor]

Hello commanders
Now that we in the Earth Defense Fleet have spent some time in the beta we began to discuss on how the C&P system will effect the way we can manage and manipulate the BGS.

By making murder of npc’s almost impossible FDev as taken away the ability to adversely effect the BGS. Now I know this may not be there intention but I feel that they have not thought this all the way though. Now I know there are those in this community who are going to say I am complaining about the new C&P system. Let me assure you I am not.

We at the Earth Defense Fleet fully enjoy managing and manipulating the BGS we take our minor faction seriously and murder was one of the tools we used to negatively affect the BGS to manage our own minor faction growth and expansion.

Now with the new C&P system FDev have made it more difficult to place a minor faction into retreat and to keep the targeted minor factions influence below the necessary influence level to force a retreat.

So I pose this question...
How dose FDev expect us who enjoy managing and manipulating the BGS to efficiently push a minor factions influence below 5% if we can not use murder as a tool?

And I would like to point out after looking at the mission rewards and seeing there pay outs I have not been able to find a mission that pays out in high influence percentages.
That being said you will not be able to use missions as they stand in the beta to negatively affect the BGS.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Hello commanders
Now that we in the Earth Defense Fleet have spent some time in the beta we began to discuss on how the C&P system will effect the way we can manage and manipulate the BGS.

By making murder of npc’s almost impossible FDev as taken away the ability to adversely effect the BGS. Now I know this may not be there intention but I feel that they have not thought this all the way though. Now I know there are those in this community who are going to say I am complaining about the new C&P system. Let me assure you I am not.

We at the Earth Defense Fleet fully enjoy managing and manipulating the BGS we take our minor faction seriously and murder was one of the tools we used to negatively affect the BGS to manage our own minor faction growth and expansion.

Now with the new C&P system FDev have made it more difficult to place a minor faction into retreat and to keep the targeted minor factions influence below the necessary influence level to force a retreat.

So I pose this question...
How dose FDev expect us who enjoy managing and manipulating the BGS to efficiently push a minor factions influence below 5% if we can not use murder as a tool?

And I would like to point out after looking at the mission rewards and seeing there pay outs I have not been able to find a mission that pays out in high influence percentages.
That being said you will not be able to use missions as they stand in the beta to negatively affect the BGS.

I pushed multiple factions into retreat by running missions, trading, handing in bounties and exploration data. Never felt the need to muder anyone.

 

[Aashenfox]

Yes, I have to say, despite not being a BGS player, that 10 players killing police can no longer easily throw a critical system into lockdown in two days (if that's inaccurate, forgive me, it's a perception) flat, sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
By making murder of npc’s almost impossible FDev as taken away the ability to adversely effect the BGS. Now I know this may not be there intention but I feel that they have not thought this all the way though. …

Not being able to farm system security to drop the influence of a faction is one of the design goals of ATRs/C&P from what I can tell.
I think someone from FDev actually mentioned exactly that at one of the recent Beyond streams.

It might be the worst possible fix for the underlying issue, but it looks like it's the solution FDev decided to use.

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

Murder was one of the tools. Now it isn't anymore (or hopefully won't be ever again).

Considering how easy it was for random people who enjoyed nothing more then to constantly wreck the BGS efforts of others by killing Security ships without end, this is a vast improvement in every imaginable way.

I am sorry to ask but did all your Retreat plans involve slaughtering NPCs, even those of your own Minor faction? If so then I'm frankly at a loss for words. We've been managing Retreats without Murder for over two years now, mostly because until the middle of last year we didn't even know that this gargantuan exploit was even in existence! And once we knew we still didn't use it because that would be kind of hypocritical.

There are still ways to manipulate the % and to force MF into Retreat. Granted, it won't be as easy anymore but the BGS isn't ment to be easy in the first place. It's about planning, strategising, building diplomatic relationships with your BGS neighbours and Powerplay communities, getting things done with your Wingmates and enjoy your accomplishments as a team / Wing.

Naturally if one doesn't care about getting along with others all that can be scraped and instead of being a sensible human being you resort to being something else. Ever since the implementation of the first Player Minor factions there were those who only sought the exploits to use it to their benefit, burning down the hopes and dreams of others to the ground.

And since FD doesn't want to lose potential long term Players who will buy their future updates (assuming they even cost something) compared to those who only log on to get their ego strokes by ruining some other persons day, what they're going to import into the real game is nothing short of a milestone.

So, there's absolutely no need to change anything imho. Just needs a different approach from here on out. We did and do it, and so can you.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Time to git gud?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I pushed multiple factions into retreat by running missions, trading, handing in bounties and exploration data. Never felt the need to muder anyone.

But that's like playing rest of the game without combat. That's girl stuff.

By making murder of npc’s almost impossible FDev as taken away the ability to adversely effect the BGS. Now I know this may not be there intention but I feel that they have not thought this all the way though.

Adam last week declared that it was exactly intention to make C&P universal not only players oriented.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

But that's like playing rest of the game without combat. That's girl stuff.

Hey, I said 'bounties'!
I farm NPCs in my engineered god-ship just like the big boys

 

[Snowymonk]

I pushed multiple factions into retreat by running missions, trading, handing in bounties and exploration data. Never felt the need to muder anyone.

yeah - what he said.

We have forced a faction into retreat by starving it out. Running sufficient missions for everyone in a system except that faction achieves the same goal.
You don't have to kill anyone.

 

[Sofica]

But that's like playing rest of the game without combat. That's girl stuff.

Girl stuff is when you kill NPC ships in high security system without any punishment.Totally unreal.This way game looks more real.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Hello commanders
Now that we in the Earth Defense Fleet have spent some time in the beta we began to discuss on how the C&P system will effect the way we can manage and manipulate the BGS.

By making murder of npc’s almost impossible FDev as taken away the ability to adversely effect the BGS. Now I know this may not be there intention but I feel that they have not thought this all the way though. Now I know there are those in this community who are going to say I am complaining about the new C&P system. Let me assure you I am not.

We at the Earth Defense Fleet fully enjoy managing and manipulating the BGS we take our minor faction seriously and murder was one of the tools we used to negatively affect the BGS to manage our own minor faction growth and expansion.

Now with the new C&P system FDev have made it more difficult to place a minor faction into retreat and to keep the targeted minor factions influence below the necessary influence level to force a retreat.

So I pose this question...
How dose FDev expect us who enjoy managing and manipulating the BGS to efficiently push a minor factions influence below 5% if we can not use murder as a tool?

And I would like to point out after looking at the mission rewards and seeing there pay outs I have not been able to find a mission that pays out in high influence percentages.
That being said you will not be able to use missions as they stand in the beta to negatively affect the BGS.

See unless a minor faction is made anarchistic, "murder" should not even be a standard tool for them to consider. And if you need, some specialised commanders that sacrifce their renown for the greater good of their faction. So as long as a faction isn't in a a war state with another this is nothing that should be standard.

however what FD still needs to implement is a lot mroe difference between minor factions differences by their government type. A Cordporation like you have should be able to utilise a few monetary based measurements vs other minor factions. Such as hostile takover by trade and monetary missions. This is a mjor lacking feature the BGS has.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Not being able to farm system security to drop the influence of a faction is one of the design goals of ATRs/C&P from what I can tell.
I think someone from FDev actually mentioned exactly that at one of the recent Beyond streams.

It might be the worst possible fix for the underlying issue, but it looks like it's the solution FDev decided to use.

I have been an advocate of npc's being treated the same as players since the C&P tweaking was announced. Why should npc's be treated differently than players?

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Girl stuff is when you kill NPC ships in high security system without any punishment.Totally unreal.This way game looks more real.

Well it now will be real mansports because one needs to grow some balls to keep handling murdering as a tool.

 

[Deareim]

Deleted.

 

[krylite]

One could still get bgs combative doing massacre missions/CZs, assassinate pirate lords, etc. without having to murder security ships of other factions.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I pushed multiple factions into retreat by running missions, trading, handing in bounties and exploration data. Never felt the need to muder anyone.

Problem is a few hours game time by opposition or even a passing player who doesn’t realise what they are effecting will cancel the retreat. Getting it below 2.5% isn’t the problem. Keeping it there is particularly if you are not trying to mess up the rest of the system into chaos and war.

I don’t use murder (an RP thing) so in 1 system I have dropped a faction below 2.5% 5 times only to have somebody on a weekend pop them back up again. The diminishing returns on working for others to lower 1 faction means you either resort to murder as the only way to hit that faction (unless a BM exists which can also gets you wanted) or give up and try again later.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Problem is a few hours game time by opposition or even a passing player who doesn’t realise what they are effecting will cancel the retreat. Getting it below 2.5% isn’t the problem. Keeping it there is particularly if you are not trying to mess up the rest of the system into chaos and war.

I don’t use murder (an RP thing) so in 1 system I have dropped a faction below 2.5% 5 times only to have somebody on a weekend pop them back up again. The diminishing returns on working for others to lower 1 faction means you either resort to murder as the only way to hit that faction (unless a BM exists which can also gets you wanted) or give up and try again later.

High traffic systems are always going to harder to control - which is why as a lone player I hang out on the edge of the Bubble.

But for an active opposition, they should absolutely be able to counter the effect of regular BGS work. There shouldn't be method for reducing faction influence that can't be countered by an equal amount of work by the opposition - or, in this case, the method is there, but there are consequences to using it.

 

[Imgran]

Imagine that... a change to the system may require a change in tactics.

Perish the thought.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I have to say I'm quite fond of the idea of the BGS being pushed further into the Background. It is called Background Simulation, not Foreground Simulation, after all.

 

[Schlack]

By making murder of npc’s almost impossible FDev as taken away the ability to adversely effect the BGS. .

Murder is not impossible, it is harder. What has been removed is the ability to farm sys security and murder at will. It is now essentially equivalent in time and effort to bounty hunting - with additional consequences for being naughty. Murder has been bgs balanced, it was massively OP.

I suspect the ATR effect has been turned up to 11 for the beta and will be tweaked downwards.

There are plenty ways to adversely effect the BGS other than murder.