the new engineer system for dummies

[WR3ND]

they are not really engineers, but tinkerers pushing the limits of standard industrial components. if what they do were safe it would be on sale on any station. for immersion, engineered modules should have a prng chance to malfunction or even blow up on use.

On that note, the term "hacker" would seem more apt than "engineer," but it is what it is in the game, of course.

 

[Marklar_]

On that note, the term "hacker" would seem more apt than "engineer," but it is what it is in the game, of course.

Actually, they're tuners. "Let's boost this way over stock and see if she can take it..."

 

[Koen]

On that note, the term "hacker" would seem more apt than "engineer," but it is what it is in the game, of course.

Actually, they're tuners. "Let's boost this way over stock and see if she can take it..."

Enchanters?

 

[DoppelGanger]

Absolutely with you OP. And this is not about the modules or rolls or any of that. It's about THE most important currency in the game - Player's time. This reroll grades mechanic just nullifies the player's efforts before the new Engineers. It's basically taking away player's hard spent time and making it do it all over again. Even it's easier, it still takes hours of game time to do brainless activity that you already did.

This is World of Warcraft or Diablo 3 mentality really. It's a new season/raid gear grind that makes your hard earned items obsolete, because there is now better and easier "gear" out there.

What FD could do instead is to let players keep the grades if they already unlocked or at the very least downgrade by 1 level. (but it's still taking away time from a player)

 

[Yure]

LOL. I told y'all new system was going to be worse.

People didn't want the equality, they wanted to believe their lack of skill was the result of a worse tiny fraction in efficiency in theirs mods.

CQC seems like an even playing field... I wonder why that place isn't full with PvPs...

Enjoy!

On the bright note. Thanks for more mat storage.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Exactly my thoughts.
The grind will just shift from gathering materials for a couple grade 5 rolls to gathering a lot more materials for a couple grade 5 rolls.
I can't see any longterm improvement here but then again I'm not a game developer.

You will find most of the materials you need when search for your grade 5 materials anyway. As you don't need to throw any away now it will be much easier to have the lower rank rolls. It's not just the materials broker, its also the materials storage which will make it much easier too. So for those that grind, grind out your G5 materials and you will likely find that you will find your G4, G3, G2 and G1 materials on the way

 

[Raino]

once, when everything is predictable and safe, all them whiners are happy - instant success, game will be dead

 

[Faybs]

You will find most of the materials you need when search for your grade 5 materials anyway. As you don't need to throw any away now it will be much easier to have the lower rank rolls. It's not just the materials broker, its also the materials storage which will make it much easier too. So for those that grind, grind out your G5 materials and you will likely find that you will find your G4, G3, G2 and G1 materials on the way

Exactly. Think of all the times you've dropped into a high grade signal source, only to rage because it's the same wrong mat that you already have way too many of. With the new system, you should be able to trade any high grade mat for any other (both being grade 5 mats).

 

[smiths121]

So why did they even ask the current players for feedback?



Now imagine if you want to engineer 4 Shield Boosters.

Somebody mentioned in another thread, to completely engineer a FAS to G5 everything (with engineers unlocked) you need 72 mats now, in the new system you need 600+ mats.

You could hull tank the FAS rather than shield tank! Thats at least one component less to mod. FAS has crap shields anyway. Facepalm ... ahh ... that will be why you are putting 4 shield boosters on it! Carry on!

On another note, you will only put 3 on the FAS, you need to keep one free for a wake scanner!

Think my sarcasm radar is on the blink.

Simon

 

[s1ngular1ty]

Very shortly, people will be along to tell you that you are wrong. Maybe they are right.

Personally, though, I'm entirely with you on this.

Currently if I want a new Grade 5 FSD for a new ship, I head along to an Engineer and do one or two rolls and then leave happy.

I won't be able to do that any more. I said this a month or two back, people told me to wait and see...because the material trader would make it all ok. However at current test levels, the material trader needs 1296 G1 materials for 1 G5 material. Not a lot of help really.

But Frontier insist it's for the long term betterment of the game, in which case I guess it doesn't matter what players who do this actually want. Game comes first, right?

You are 100% correct. This totally penalizes the average player in favor of PVP players who want GOD roll modules.

I've been saying this since the forum opened for feedback on the engineering changes. I don't see how anyone with any ability to do simple math can argue with what you have said or what I've been saying in the feedback forum. The new system simply takes WAY more rolls to achieve similar results to what is easily achievable in the current system.

The new system is more of a grind in every way. The material trader is not going to be useful at all since FDEV has placed such high trade rates from lower grade materials to higher grade materials. It makes me wonder why they even bothered implementing such a feature if they are going to nerf it so heavily to the point of it being more difficult than just going to find the G5 materials. I think they missed the point of their own feature.

 

[lokvette]

To summarize it:

- The new system is better for players who regularly do 25+ rolls per module to god-roll everyting.
- For casual engineering users, it's much worse and an order of magnitude more grindy.

So for somone like me who has done two FSD's, one set of drives to G3 and a few other little bits in near on 1500 hrs of play, engineers are now a bigger turn off than before.

The only saving grace for me is I go with the flow and do a bit of this and that and in that the new market brookers might come into play, that is if im reading this right and they hold onto what you give them or is it I change X for Y as I need more of Y but have a lot of X so change X to Y.

I stil cant get past the fact that before if I had a engineer unlocked to 5 they would give me grade 5 rolls good or bad, but now I have to roll from 1 to 5 for eveything, and whatI read somwhere the 1-3 are not worth it the 4 might be ok but its the 5 you want.

Its a bit like usesing the self service scanner at the store only to find all the terminals are down and you have to join the back of the ever increaseing que, and its pension day...

Ill wait and see how the feed back goes but as is the way its changed isnt for the better, or at least how I understand the whole thing which might be rather left of the mark.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You are 100% correct. This totally penalizes the average player in favor of PVP players who want GOD roll modules.

I've been saying this since the forum opened for feedback on the engineering changes. I don't see how anyone with any ability to do simple math can argue with what you have said or what I've been saying in the feedback forum. The new system simply takes WAY more rolls to achieve similar results to what is easily achievable in the current system.

The new system is more of a grind in every way. The material trader is not going to be useful at all since FDEV has placed such high trade rates from lower grade materials to higher grade materials. It makes me wonder why they even bothered implementing such a feature if they are going to nerf it so heavily to the point of it being more difficult than just going to find the G5 materials. I think they missed the point of their own feature.

How do you work that out. As a PvE player it gives me more reasons to interact and play the game. I would be happy with Grade 3 rolls for most of my modules, so no big deal.

 

[Vegassimus]

So in a nutshell... Assuming I'm not a min-maxer looking for crazy rolls, but just an average guy wanting some upgrades...

In the current system, I go to engineer that I have already unlocked up to g3 or g4, do 1-2 rolls per module for whatever grade I can get, and I'm done.
It's currently doable with very few mats that I get by doing missions or generally playing the game without grinding.

In the new system instead, since I cannot skip to the best grade anymore... I'm gonna have to do how many rolls for each and every module? I'm gonna need how many orders of magnitude more items?
Seems designed to just push average people out. (Not to mention pvp, but that was already made an exclusive club with the current implementation.)

I agree 100%!
The good in the new system: 100 units /material or data ... and the end of being obliged to discard materials/data that you will need later.
+ materials/data trade
The ugly: no shortcut to accelerate module crafting with an engineer reputation (I was not sure of that in the live... but it seems that it is the case)

 

[Oss133]

I do not like the current implementation of Engineers because it is too random for my taste. I no longer have anything engineered.

I am looking forward to trying the new Engineers when they are released into the galaxy. If I can see some sensible progression I will be happy.

 

[The Tick]

Exactly. Think of all the times you've dropped into a high grade signal source, only to rage because it's the same wrong mat that you already have way too many of. With the new system, you should be able to trade any high grade mat for any other (both being grade 5 mats).

Couldn't agree more. Basically, when collecting mats for a specific G5 upgrade, you will collect all the more common materials for the G1-G4 rolls anyway.

Just take the G5 increased jump range on FSDs as an example:
For G5, you need the very (painfully) rare Datamined Wake Exceptions

For G1 to G4, you need Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes, Strange Wake Solutions, and Eccentric Hyperspace Trajectories - which are a byproduct of collecting DWEs. With the increased storage capbilities, just don't discard these, and you are set.

 

[s1ngular1ty]

How do you work that out. As a PvE player it gives me more reasons to interact and play the game. I would be happy with Grade 3 rolls for most of my modules, so no big deal.

You don't sound like you understand the current system. Here is a simple break down. Lets see what each system takes to get a high end G5 FSD range increase (~50%) with engineer I have G5 access with already.

Current system (it usually takes me 8 rolls for a decent upgrade):
8x Arsenic
8x Chemical Manipulator
8x Datamined Wake Exceptions
------------------------------
16 materials (2 types)
8 data (1 type)

New system (with 4 rolls on average per grade):
G1
4x Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes
G2
4x Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes
4x Chemical Processors
G3
4x Chemical Processors
4x Phosphorus
4x Strange Wake Solutions
G4
4x Chemical Distillery
4x Eccentric Hyperspace Trajectories
4x Manganese
G5
4x Arsenic
4x Chemical Manipulators
4x Datamined Wake Exceptions
-----------------------------------------
28 materials (6 types)
20 data (5 types)



So the new system will require 175% more materials and 250% more data to upgrade the same module. On top of the raw increase in quantities, now you have to gather 4 more types of materials and 4 more types of data that weren't even needed before. Oh and for EVERY module you upgrade. So this probably means going to 8 different NEW locations to gather these if you don't want to be robbed at the material trader by the super high prices FDEV will be charging for materials. Because you can't get all the materials in the same places!!! I think people conveniently forget this.

Keep in mind, this doesn't include the cost of the secondary effects which came free with the old system. You could get lucky and get a really good secondary in under 8 rolls. It happened to me. So in the new system it will cost you extra, and they weren't cheap.


So please explain to me how the new system is better over what I can do with the current system for the example I've given? I dare you...

Someone showed on this forum that it would required more than 900 extra materials to upgrade all the module on an Anaconda using the new system over the old system. From my example you can see how this is easily the case. Think of how many modules are on an Anaconda. That was even before the material trader. The material trader will increase that amount by 10x if you try to get the higher grade materials with lower grade materials, because the prices to convert lower materials to higher materials is so expensive. So how does any of this make sense when FDEV wants to reduce the grind??????

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You don't sound like you understand the current system. Here is a simple break down. Lets see what each system takes to get a high end G5 FSD range increase (~50%) with engineer I have G5 access with already.

Current system (it usually takes me 8 rolls for a decent upgrade):
8x Arsenic
8x Chemical Manipulator
8x Datamined Wake Exceptions
------------------------------
16 materials (2 types)
8 data (1 type)

New system (with 4 rolls on average per grade):
G1
4x Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes
G2
4x Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes
4x Chemical Processors
G3
4x Chemical Processors
4x Phosphorus
4x Strange Wake Solutions
G4
4x Chemical Distillery
4x Eccentric Hyperspace Trajectories
4x Manganese
G5
4x Arsenic
4x Chemical Manipulators
4x Datamined Wake Exceptions
-----------------------------------------
28 materials (6 types)
20 data (5 types)



So the new system will require 175% more materials and 250% more data to upgrade the same module. On top of the raw increase in quantities, now you have to gather 4 more types of materials and 4 more types of data that weren't even needed before. Oh and for EVERY module you upgrade. So this probably means going to 8 different NEW locations to gather these if you don't want to be robbed at the material trader by the super high prices FDEV will be charging for materials. Because you can't get all the materials in the same places!!! I think people conveniently forget this.

Keep in mind, this doesn't include the cost of the secondary effects which came free with the old system. You could get lucky and get a really good secondary in under 8 rolls. It happened to me. So in the new system it will cost you extra, and they weren't cheap.


So please explain to me how the new system is better over what I can do with the current system for the example I've given? I dare you...

Someone showed on this forum that it would required more than 900 extra materials to upgrade all the module on an Anaconda using the new system over the old system. From my example you can see how this is easily the case. Think of how many modules are on an Anaconda. That was even before the material trader. The material trader will increase that amount by 10x if you try to get the higher grade materials with lower grade materials, because the prices to convert lower materials to higher materials is so expensive. So how does any of this make sense when FDEV wants to reduce the grind??????

And it is still rubbish, as already stated you will find most of those items while searching for your G5. It will be far easier as you do not need to trash your materials anymore. The working out is completely flawed.

 

[zz9pa]

Current system (it usually takes me 8 rolls for a decent upgrade):
8x Arsenic
8x Chemical Manipulator
8x Datamined Wake Exceptions
------------------------------
16 materials (2 types)
8 data (1 type)

New system (with 4 rolls on average per grade):
G1
4x Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes
G2
4x Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes
4x Chemical Processors
G3
4x Chemical Processors
4x Phosphorus
4x Strange Wake Solutions
G4
4x Chemical Distillery
4x Eccentric Hyperspace Trajectories
4x Manganese
G5
4x Arsenic
4x Chemical Manipulators
4x Datamined Wake Exceptions
-----------------------------------------
28 materials (6 types)
20 data (5 types)

Even if you accept the madness of the extra mats - using your numbers its now 20 clicks as opposed to 8.
Personally - I think your "8" is a bit higher than I'd normally bother with for anything other than an exploration build.

And thats for every module on your ship..
Every module..


Come on FD.
Do it on the next live stream, buy a new cheiftan - you can start with 100 of every mat and data - just engineer it up in real time..

 

[s1ngular1ty]

Exactly. Think of all the times you've dropped into a high grade signal source, only to rage because it's the same wrong mat that you already have way too many of. With the new system, you should be able to trade any high grade mat for any other (both being grade 5 mats).

Actually you can't. You can only trade mats for those of a similar type. So you can't exchange Exquistie Focus Crystals for Chemical Manipulators. You can only exchange up or down grades in the same material family. Oh and you have to go to different locations for different types of material trades because the traders specialize in a certain type.


Yay!!!!

 

[Bomba Luigi]

The new system sure is weird, forcing every player who wants more then a Grade 1 mod to do a bunch of craft and trash is weird. Not sure whats supposed to be so enganging about producing mods you don't want.

Worst aspect tough has to be the incredible weird decision to hide crucial information from the player. That was already there by only letting us pin one blueprint meaning it was impossible to look up every mod in game, made now worse a lot by making 5 blueprints requiert just do one grade 5 mod while still only being able to pin one blueprint per engineer.
Trying to figure out what you all need for that grade 5 mod before going to the engineer is gonna be an incredible hassle.


Not my problem anymore tough, I did some engineering marathon so I don't have to do any engineering anymore in the future. I'm not gonna deal with that new system, to much grinding, wasting of time and hassle involved.