The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[andyraptor]

With a side of Newtonian?

On a serious note, please stick with the guilds and player owned content in this thread. I dread to think what would happen if we had to merge this into the Open v Solo threadnaught.

I think you should merge it anyway ..........and bury it

ta

 

[Asp Explorer]

Spoken like a man who was never a member of a (good) guild. With a good player group you can easily find buddies to PvE or PvP together, make your own fun, help out newbies, fight griefers and make lots of friends. I still play with people I met 7 years ago in my Age of Conan guild, and my case is hardly exceptional.

Lulz - I used to lead a PvP Lotro Guild. I'm not against guilds, they can be a lot of fun - but I am absolutely against guilds in Elite - I can see no purpose to them given the nature of the game. You are out to become Elite, not some Mediocre Guildie

 

[jabokai]

Just goes to show that many who play this game are totally unaware of Galnet News that features in the game, or you would have recognised our Group name immediately and the success we have achieved.

I'm aware of the Galnet feature, I just don't read it. I was aware that Commander names were popping up in the "Most Wanted" list and that irritated me (when so many were stupidly named) so I stopped reading it. One of my pet hates that guilds only (generally) make worse.

To address your point - if you already have this recognition you crave, then what's the big deal? Do you want a broadcast onto everyone's screen, no matter what they're doing saying "OMG Player Guild X has taken over Boombackachackawawa"? Or is the Galnet thing actually enough, when you stop and consider?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Speaking as a player who never even looked at the forum, but reads reddit, I wouldn't have even *known* about the pole unless it had been posted there. So I made a forum account and voted. Yes, it's a zero day account, yes it's my first time coming here, yes I am a redditor. I am also a player, so I voted.

As one of the "zero day" accounts that voted on the poll, I find this pretty ridiculous. I've lurked on these forums since january, and this is the first issue that made me actually motivated to post. If you just wanted a poll of regular forum posters, you should have explicitly made that poll. It might be interesting that an issue like this is split pretty heavily based on where you previously have posted (here vs. the reddit) but I don't think it in any way makes this poll illegitimate.

No, that ship sailed at creation of the poll.

The thing is that a voting base has been mobilised with the specific intent of voting in favour of guilds. It does not invalidate your vote, but it does warp the results. It's like 2 political parties during an election, where only one of them is doing any campaigning. Does that mean that everyone's vote who voted for the campaigning party is invalid? Nope. Does it mean the vote has been slanted by outside influences, of course.

I know a thing or two about polling. and I know how unreliable they can be when they are conducted by phones, or street interviews or such. But even those two types are more reliable than internet polls by a lightyear.

The first poll here that showed support against guilds? Inconsequential
The poll on reddit with 83% in favour? Inconsequential
This one? Inconsequential from the start, as all the others were.

 

[Theodrid]

Because polls were disabled and threads or polls about guild topics usually got merged into the monster thread with the poll from 2013, so people could say "See how the poll ended? Noone likes guilds."

This thread/poll has been up what? - 18 hours or so? - many of the previous threads and polls on this very subject that have occured since January were up much longer before they were merged/closed.

 

[Alonzo Solace]

I don't really think player-owned stuff would work very well, and in my mind it comes a looong way down the priority list, way after fixing the bugs in the background sim, the bugs in PowerPlay, etc. Make the core game work well, then think about something significant like player-owned stuff.

I'm very much in favor of guilds. Every significant, long-term MMO experience I have had has a guild at its center. Social interaction increases stickiness (go read the Blizzard annual reports to their shareholders if you want more detail). I'm very confused at the people who don't want guild features. Right now I have a friends list that I can only ping individually, I have no guild or faction chat, I have no way to identify that a Commander is part of a particular group, and I must use out-of-game tools for all my organization. It feels really clunky.

Given the P2P limitations (32 players, more like 10 frankly), Private Group and Solo modes, I think it's extremely unlikely that large griefer groups would form, as some in this thread seem to fear. As with almost all things in life, guilds can have a positive and negative effect, and I believe the positive would outweigh the negatives.

At the very least, it would be nice to have a statement from FD about their intentions, once they've had a chance to think more about the issue. I'm glad they took the time to post a poll, but polling is a very inexact science, especially on the internet.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why didn't the people crying for Guild's not research the game before buying it? I did and no Guilds / Player owned content was one of the reasons I joined beta. And it one of the few things that would drive me from the game.

Two things made me venture into the shady world of MMO's, as quoted from David Braben

PvP being rare and meaningful
No guilds.

 

[Whiterose]

I can confirm the only thing illegitimate on this forum is me. Unless there are others with doubtful parentage.
As to the poll, does it really matter? hmm is anyone going to die because of the outcome. I think not.

 

[rehael]

Can I please see some Offline Client discussion

Sure. Khm, khm, here it goes.

Why don't we have offline groups!? It's outrag… oh, wait…

 

[Cadoc]

Declaring wholecloth that a forum is hostile to an opinion is a little bit like saying it's wrong for people to have opinions on a game they play and have paid for.

I didn't meant to suggest that the entire forum is like that, sorry if that's how it came across. However, it is a fact that quite a few people here are very... zealous in their opposition to guilds - not just the introduction of guild mechanics, but guilds in general. I've seen some mind-boggling stuff recently, including claims that player groups are a way for social rejects to find an outlet for their inadequacies, frequent comparisons to gangs, equating guilds with griefing and just straight-up, childish insults. That kind of crap is common in every guild-related thread. That certainly puts some people off.

 

[_Flin_]

I don't really think player-owned stuff would work very well, and in my mind it comes a looong way down the priority list, way after fixing the bugs in the background sim, the bugs in PowerPlay, etc. Make the core game work well, then think about something significant like player-owned stuff.

We don't need player owned stuff as long as there are fun things to do with the minor faction owned stuff.

AEDC does get rather territorial if someone ends up manipulating "our" systems. We don't need to "own" the stations in a gameplay way. We just pretend to own them, and it is all the same. Funny interactions can occur due to this.

 

[smiths121]

Well Guilds, and ownership - 2 of the most divisive, polarising topics for this forum. The questionable poll reflects this.

I voted no to both for the record.

Power Play is not my favorite addition to the game adding the concept of territory for large groups of players - I see the powers as NPC Guilds. Player Guilds would be a step too far for me personally. Having said that I enjoy manipulating the background simulator along with 5 other friends in an area we call home. This small group mentality fits in with the mechanics of ED.

Although Power Play is not for me I did give it about 10 hours last week. Most of the actual power playing was taking place in solo, so I can see why for some Power Play does not satisfy their desire for "organised" large groups. A lot of players play in solo or PVE out of preference, some of the ideas put forward on this thread have attempted to be inclusive, but Guilds, at least how there are structured in an MMO do not naturally fit with the concept of solo (there is a better fit for PVE groups though).

At the moment, with the surface of a world being off-game, stations are the "points", so are the natural fit for ownership. Given the trouble we have had post 1.3, as the powers began moving towards our bit of space, player guilds are just going to exasperate the situation, I was that close to quitting for good last Thursday/Friday because of Power Play.

Why didn't the people crying for Guild's not research the game before buying it? I did and no Guilds / Player owned content was one of the reasons I joined beta. And it one of the few things that would drive me from the game.

I am afraid this is my position as well.

Simon

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

We don't need player owned stuff as long as there are fun things to do with the minor faction owned stuff.

AEDC does get rather territorial if someone ends up manipulating "our" systems. We don't need to "own" the stations in a gameplay way. We just pretend to own them, and it is all the same. Funny interactions can occur due to this.

There ya go then! Seems you're all doing fine without official in-game support.

CASE CLOSED! NEXT TOPIC OF CONTENTION PLEASE!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I didn't meant to suggest that the entire forum is like that, sorry if that's how it came across. However, it is a fact that quite a few people here are very... zealous in their opposition to guilds - not just the introduction of guild mechanics, but guilds in general. I've seen some mind-boggling stuff recently, including claims that player groups are a way for social rejects to find an outlet for their inadequacies, frequent comparisons to gangs, equating guilds with griefing and just straight-up, childish insults. That kind of crap is common in every guild-related thread. That certainly puts some people off.

Both sides of the isle suffer from those conditions you describe. I decide not to have those people be the representative of the opposing view, and thus dismiss them more easily.

I still wonder how people feel about player owned stations when the player owning the station can only set rules with regard to players affiliated to guilds.

Guild X, we don't want the likes of Guild Y here!
Guild Y: Blast!
No guild: Hi guys, just selling some gold, buying some conductors, cheerio.

 

[Whiterose]

Speaking as a player who never even looked at the forum, but reads reddit, I wouldn't have even *known* about the pole unless it had been posted there. So I made a forum account and voted. Yes, it's a zero day account, yes it's my first time coming here, yes I am a redditor. I am also a player, so I voted.

Welcome Phaedryn to the ED forum. May your questions be answered promptly, and your debates be fruitful, and your polls be in your favour.

 

[Cadoc]

Both sides of the isle suffer from those conditions you describe. I decide not to have those people be the representative of the opposing view, and thus dismiss them more easily.

I certainly don't dismiss the anti-guild crowd because of some rather bizarre people on that "side". I was just talking about those attitudes in relation to all those 0-day accounts. Many people read this forum regularly, but choose not to post or even make accounts, and I think the attitude of some members is to blame in at least a small part.

 

[Marc Alexander]

There have been many zero day accounts today, most of which have had no activity but, guess what, vote on this poll.

ETA - another 10 accounts as I typed the above

Well that's interesting - and fairly shoddy behaviour from some people (especially if multiple accounts are being created). It just highlights how easy it is to skew daft polls into uber-daftness.

Congrats!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Why didn't the people crying for Guild's not research the game before buying it? I did and no Guilds / Player owned content was one of the reasons I joined beta. And it one of the few things that would drive me from the game.

I wouldn't go as far as to say it would drive me away from the game unless they went overboard, but the lack of guilds was one reason i was very interested in buying it, as well as the ability to switch modes as well.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I didn't meant to suggest that the entire forum is like that, sorry if that's how it came across. However, it is a fact that quite a few people here are very... zealous in their opposition to guilds - not just the introduction of guild mechanics, but guilds in general. I've seen some mind-boggling stuff recently, including claims that player groups are a way for social rejects to find an outlet for their inadequacies, frequent comparisons to gangs, equating guilds with griefing and just straight-up, childish insults. That kind of crap is common in every guild-related thread. That certainly puts some people off.

I agree i am biased......... (though I think/hope I have not gone so far as to call guildies social rejects ) the point is however I bought a game which actively advertised NO to guilds. Can you not see how many of us think that to implement them now would be a bait and switch?. I actively do NOT play EVE and other games which are heavily influenced by guilds....... I DID back SC knowing it will have them and will never demand their removal.... but then I got it mainly for S42 which will be guild free.

I do my homework on games and back based on what the devs say........ I have actively not bought games due to guilds, many actively bought ED due to the promise of a LACK of them. To just with the wave of a hand say, well that was a little naive now wasn’t it? seems a little disingenuous to me.

OTOH am I naive however? well put it this way... I did buy Alien Colonial marines because I trusted the guff Randy Pitchford said about it as well as the vertical slice of "live" gameplay shown.... but that is one for Jimquisition!. But fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice..... put it this way, i will buying all my next games from them from the bargain bin now, under my devs never to be trusted pile.

 

[Darkfalconz]

Speaking as a player who never even looked at the forum, but reads reddit, I wouldn't have even *known* about the pole unless it had been posted there. So I made a forum account and voted. Yes, it's a zero day account, yes it's my first time coming here, yes I am a redditor. I am also a player, so I voted.

Phaedryn, you are not alone. Lurking on the forums, read reddit, never made a account before today. But I am a real player, who paid money, and my opinion should count as well as anyone else who paid for this game.

Anyhoo, I like seeing and reading all of these constructive comments. Keep em coming!

CMDR Talons