The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Asp Explorer]

what else are guilds going to do? Pat each other on the back and say "nice credit balance! Enjoy a peaceful evenings trading. Our guild will be engaging in Shieldless Sidewinder Stacking at Lave tonight."

Having played many games over the decades (and been in and lead Guilds) that is not the kind of thing that typically happens

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Everything you're saying can already be done outside the game - you keep failing to address that point whenever I mention it. Convenient.

Also, Elite is not and has never been a game of guild wars - and no, Powers aren't guilds - they're fictional NPC/PvE creations, and Powerplay is a bolt-on to the game which you can join or not. If you choose not to join in on the Powerplay stuff - the game continues on as Elite-as-it's-meant-to-be, in Solo, Group, and Open.

Everything I said can be done?

Can I borrow your T9 for some trading tonight?

Sure you can - just pop over to my house for the evening - after all, we're guildie buddies and know each other, right?

Oh wait I've never owned a T9. Never mind

Why does putting guilds in the game make you assume that those guilds' first and foremost priority will immediately be to lock each other in a bloody struggle for survival?

Because it's obviously inevitable something like that will happen.

[CITATION] : http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/28/eve-evolved-top-ten-ganks-scams-heists-and-events/

Please don't try and tell me that there won't be players in your fantasy Elite: Guildwars game who will do those sorts of shenanigans.

 

[Malpherian]

well we'll see about that!.

but let's suppose you're correct...


why have you, in this thread, and on multiple occasions

called FD's policies 'irrational', and the devs themselves 'hypocrites'?

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oh, and for the record, i play in open because i do like interacting with people...
but i dont like petty minded guildies who start wars with other petty minded guildies

and who suggest that i should play in solo, if i dont want to be involved in the crap they spew into the game.

i was in a guild once in star wars galaxies. they sold the idea of helping each other do quests and stuff....

but the reality was they were just bickering with other guilds. it was pathetic. i lasted 30 mins and left.

then.... i got messages accusing me of being a spy from another guild.

you think i want that kinda childishness in elite?

I said their opinions, as stated by that specific Mod was irrational. I also stated earlier what I thought FD's plan was. Which was the exact opposite of my debate with that mod, who himself stated although agreeing with what he viewed as FD's opinion on guilds he himself was not a representative of FD.

FD has not weighed in to make an official comment on any of this. Nor have they actually stated their policies on such, actually they've remained quite vague, so while we can debate "Opinions" of what those might be, we don't actually know what they are. We can take guesses at what we see however. Which is why some of my post's contridict each other in that area. Some of them are based on what I see, and the others are me debating these opinions of policies with that Mod.

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So you like petty minded individuals and groups of individuals who gank and start wars with other petty minded individuals and groups of individuals, (as long as they are not in a guild).

But you don't like guilds that have petty minded individuals and groups of individuals who gank and start wars with other petty minded individuals and groups of individuals who belong to other guilds?


Right....

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

what else are guilds going to do? Pat each other on the back and say "nice credit balance! Enjoy a peaceful evenings trading. Our guild will be engaging in Shieldless Sidewinder Stacking at Lave tonight."

Having played many games over the decades (and been in and lead Guilds) that is not the kind of thing that typically happens

I suggest you play a few more then. That is exactly what happens. One of my favorite corp activities in Eve was the Races they held to the bottom of Null. Grab a cheap, crappy ship, line up at the starting line and everyone takes off to the absolute farthest point in hostile territory possible, pick your own route, and do what you have to do to survive in territory that's so hot you could cook a roast just by walking in the room holding it in hand. Since you are in one of the crappiest ships imaginable and racing on your own, fighting is not an option, only thing you have is your wits and some luck. Even better if you can make your own luck.

 

[Herik]

You never did a death run through black rock mountain, or got screwed over in Elwynn forest or ganked relentlessly in the Barrens, etc etc etc. remember, ED has one open server and it is PvP. There is no flag to turn on or off, sit and pretend that a guild wouldn't sit and wait around the Lave cluster waiting to gank starters learning to trade rares all you want, I'd put big money on some group called the Eravate slaughterhouse cropping up within a week of organized guild functions. Like I said, one bad apple ruins the whole bin, and I don't know if you know how big a bin of apples is but it doesn't take long for just one rotten one to ruin all the rest.

Player groups can and already do those kinds of things, but on a much less coordinated, inconvenient level and without the ability to easily attract others.

Lets not mention the fact that the whole feel of the game goes against the grain of this kind of thing.

I'm repping you on this; I's what I believe. If these yokels start co.ordinating, then we really have a major game problem. I really believe DB knows this...

 

[Asp Explorer]

Since you are on your own, why would any of that need guilds? You can do the exact same thing in Elite, many already have. I do something similar by flying My Little Hauler around places that The Big Bad Boys claim they own.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Sure you can - just pop over to my house for the evening - after all, we're guildie buddies and know each other, right?

Oh wait I've never owned a T9. Never mind



Because it's obviously inevitable something like that will happen.

[CITATION] : http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/28/eve-evolved-top-ten-ganks-scams-heists-and-events/

Please don't try and tell me that there won't be players in your fantasy Elite: Guildwars game who will do those sorts of shenanigans.

LOL. Eve is specifically designed to encourage such behavior. You always have the option of NOT designing the game to reward people for stealing, scamming and betraying their fellow members. And guess what, Eve players made their own system for discouraging this behavior. You know what they used for it? The social tools in the game. You wanna be a corp thief you're going to get blacklisted in a hurry and burn all of your chances for future success. Even if someone does entertain your application to a corp after you've been blacklisted, you will never get permissions to touch any assets in the corp holdings, which can be locked down on a person by person basis by the administrators of the corp.

You are quoting stuff beyond your ken, son.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Since you are on your own, why would any of that need guilds? You can do the exact same thing in Elite, many already have. I do something similar by flying My Little Hauler around places that The Big Bad Boys claim they own.

Not forgetting the Buckyball Runs

 

[medwyn]

It's hard to DISCUSS any topics when one part of the participants are repeatedly reacting from their guts like "No, just no" and all other very creative ways.
Interesting to see still so much people here who claim the whole galaxy for themselves and demanding not to be affected by others in a MULTIPLAYER game which on the other hand provides solo play as an alternative.
Degrading players to act like NPCs because one would like to control the whole galaxy of 400 billion and tell who is allowed to do what to avoid any affection is beyond my understanding.

Let me then join:
- I don't want you to trade because it affects the price I can access at a station. (Of course not, because the BGS is not functioning properly, but you see what I'm saying.)
- I don't want you to fly anywhere near me in open, because I would like to enjoy open in my way and you just block the letterbox with your ship so I have to wait to dock or undock.
- I don't want ED to allow players to be pirates because I would like to enjoy my open play with big trading ships but without shields to maximize my profit.
- I don't want you to shoot at me in any circumstances because it affects my gameplay and I may need to pay extra for hull damage, no-no-no-noh...
- I don't want you to log in when I play because it affects the instancing layout and you may get into my instance while my friend does not who I want to play together with in my open mode. Don't tell me I should go and play in a group because I want to enjoy the whole game in open.

..and the list goes on.
So please stop this nonsense about guilds that you don't want to be affected. You'll be affected only if you would like to be affected and only on a level you let this all affect you.
If you still don't get it I may just fire up ED after 3 months of pause, kit out a Vulture, and go and affect your gameplay as much as possible. Then we may be able to discuss a multilpayer feature of a multiplayer game with some open mind.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

LOL. Eve is specifically designed to encourage such behavior. You always have the option of NOT designing the game to reward people for stealing, scamming and betraying their fellow members. And guess what, Eve players made their own system for discouraging this behavior. You know what they used for it? The social tools in the game. You wanna be a corp thief you're going to get blacklisted in a hurry and burn all of your chances for future success. Even if someone does entertain your application to a corp after you've been blacklisted, you will never get permissions to touch any assets in the corp holdings, which can be locked down on a person by person basis by the administrators of the corp.

You are quoting stuff beyond your ken, son.

Congratulations! You've just won first prize for citing the very reasons that Elite should never have in-game guild support!

Your prize is 10 internets - all connected to EvE's servers. Off you go!

P.S. Elite is not designed to encourage such behaviour - and I'm sure FDEV will continue tweaking things like security levels in in habited space to further discourage such behaviour.

Now toddle off

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Since you are on your own, why would any of that need guilds? You can do the exact same thing in Elite, many already have. I do something similar by flying My Little Hauler around places that The Big Bad Boys claim they own.

Nobody said you HAD to have guilds to do so. Pay attention. The entire point is that guilds would make such activities more common, more easily accessible and easier to organize.

 

[Malpherian]

Everything I said can be done?

Can I borrow your T9 for some trading tonight?

Why does putting guilds in the game make you assume that those guilds' first and foremost priority will immediately be to lock each other in a bloody struggle for survival?

- - - Updated - - -



Current player stored ships work. Guild stored ships can work.

Galnet news works, Guild message boards can work.

There are no possible social features that can be implemented in any guild setup that wouldn't work perfectly fine, except for maybe a dating service, but we're not going down that road.

Why not? I could use a sexy nerdy girlfriend that will play ED with me....

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Congratulations! You've just won first prize for citing the very reasons that Elite should never have in-game guild support!

Your prize is 10 internets - all connected to EvE's servers. Off you go!

P.S. Elite is not designed to encourage such behaviour - and I'm sure FDEV will continue tweaking things like security levels in in habited space to further discourage such behaviour.

Now toddle off

No, actually I just pointed out why you have no idea what you're talking about, but you can continue to not read my posts before replying if it makes you feel involved with the conversation, this is the third one that you haven't provided a coherent reply to.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

snip

Oh it's you again.

Stop trying to make Elite, not-Elite.

No.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Lulz - you are going to get a vulture, find me, and show me exactly what? How you can pew pew My Little Hauler and make me RAEG? Lol - that is not going to happen and we both know it.

Big Boy posturing at its best, and all you are saying to other players in Open is "I am going to kill you for no reason in Open, and you are going to like it or else!"

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

No, actually I just pointed out why you have no idea what you're talking about, but you can continue to not read my posts before replying if it makes you feel involved with the conversation, this is the third one that you haven't provided a coherent reply to.

Oh I read your posts and I understand them rather quickly. I'm gifted like that.

I feel sorry for you if my plain English replies are incoherent to you.

You still don't recognise that your last post outlined exactly why Elite should not be turned into a guild-fest(ering pile of rubbish). Sad, really.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Oh I read your posts and I understand them rather quickly. I'm gifted like that.

I feel sorry for you if my plain English replies are incoherent to you.

You still don't recognise that your last post outlined exactly why Elite should not be turned into a guild-fest(ering pile of rubbish). Sad, really.

You always have the option of NOT designing the game to reward people for stealing, scamming and betraying their fellow members.

Anything else from my previous post I can highlight for your reading pleasure?

 

[BurnyBurns]

That's called Open, which should stay exactly as it is. If Guildies want to stomp other Guildies - they can have their own special playpen.

The name open implies the mode to be open. Not closed for group players and hypothetic group features and just open for those that would like to fence in those players into a separate mode.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Lulz - you are going to get a vulture, find me, and show me exactly what? How you can pew pew My Little Hauler and make me RAEG? Lol - that is not going to happen and we both know it.

Big Boy posturing at its best, and all you are saying to other players in Open is "I am going to kill you for no reason in Open, and you are going to like it or else!"

Not even sure if you're posting in the correct thread right now.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So please stop this nonsense about guilds that you don't want to be affected. You'll be affected only if you would like to be affected and only on a level you let this all affect you.
If you still don't get it I may just fire up ED after 3 months of pause, kit out a Vulture, and go and affect your gameplay as much as possible. Then we may be able to discuss a multilpayer feature of a multiplayer game with some open mind.

What you refer to in your post are all part of the game already. Guild support is not. Not being in favour of a set of game features that do not seem to form part of Frontier's vision for the game is quite different from requesting that the game is changed to suit a particular play-style.

I very much doubt that players would have much choice as to whether they were affected (in any way) by a Guild that they were not a member of.

Do that and players will choose carefully which mode to play in - you may meet few who are unprepared.