The obscurity of our beloved hobby...

[Nomadski]

I got a young work colleague interested in Elite, talking about my playing it as I do. I kept trying to lid his enthusiasm constantly with, well its a sim / its a lot to take in at first / many people find it boring / you have to be super into spacey stuff / its like truck simulator (!) but his enthusiasm seemed legit and real.

I noticed Steam selling Elite horizons for a tenner so I sent him a quick text. Minutes later he said he had bought it! :O

I was on the other side of the galaxy exploring when he began playing, 2 days later he said he uninstalled it....

I mean I tried tempering his excitement, I really did. It's a game that's not for everyone.

 

[Eliza]

I got a young work colleague interested in Elite, talking about my playing it as I do. I kept trying to lid his enthusiasm constantly with, well its a sim / its a lot to take in at first / many people find it boring / you have to be super into spacey stuff / its like truck simulator (!) but his enthusiasm seemed legit and real.

I noticed Steam selling Elite horizons for a tenner so I sent him a quick text. Minutes later he said he had bought it! :O

I was on the other side of the galaxy exploring when he began playing, 2 days later he said he uninstalled it....

I mean I tried tempering his excitement, I really did. It's a game that's not for everyone.

I'm curious, what was his reason to quit Elite?

 

[Sylow]

Actually, I heard from everyone having heard of Elite that it's full of gankers.
That is one major turndown.

Very much. Several of my friends, when i asked them if they'd like to join, reacted the very same way. The very only thing they "knew" of ED was is't terribly bad reputation of griefers and gankers.

And while i told them about Möbius, this again was a turndown. Having to sign up for a moderated player group, having to sign up for that by registering and applying on a forum, etc. That's a lot of hazzle to just start playing in a good environment, while you can have the very same in most games out there out of the box, without any extra effort. So they rather decided we should play other games together and they would not go for ED. And honestly, i can't blame them for that.

 

[Eliza]

Actually, I heard from everyone having heard of Elite that it's full of gankers.
That is one major turndown.

Very much. Several of my friends, when i asked them if they'd like to join, reacted the very same way. The very only thing they "knew" of ED was is't terribly bad reputation of griefers and gankers.

And while i told them about Möbius, this again was a turndown. Having to sign up for a moderated player group, having to sign up for that by registering and applying on a forum, etc. That's a lot of hazzle to just start playing in a good environment, while you can have the very same in most games out there out of the box, without any extra effort. So they rather decided we should play other games together and they would not go for ED. And honestly, i can't blame them for that.

The sad thing is, Elite doesn't deserve such a bad reputation. Amongst other things "G&G" is the least thing one has to worry about in this game. It's really sad.

 

[Sylow]

The sad thing is, Elite doesn't deserve such a bad reputation. Amongst other things "G&G" is the least thing one has to worry about in this game. It's really sad.

Hmm. I am not convinced. Every other year, i give open a try again. And quite reliably, i do get attacked if my ship is not a well renowned combat ship (and sometimes even if it is, usually by a wing of players), while people who themselves are not in combat ships avoid me as if i was the devil himself. Non-firebutton based communication always only happened when people were docked and thus not in danger of being attacked.

I know that people here describe different experiences, but it's what happened to me. Not that i lost many ships there, the only ship i ever lost to other players was my imperial courier. I could easily have escaped, but in a ship as cheap as that, i decided to rather stand and fight. Yet i couldn't honestly tell my friends that the bad reputation would not be well deserved. It very much matches my experience of open.

But i guess this now just degrades into yet another open/solo discussion. Sorry for that. It's just really unfortunate that ED has this bad reputation and really has a hard time to get rid of it. I fear that even if FD now implemented a fully functional mode along the lines of Möbius and/or upgraded crime and punishment to a level where it actually mattered, the bad reputation would still stick. It's not easy to get rid of a bad reputation after steadily building it up over several years.

 

[Sunyavadin]

My circle of friends is basically all gamers, but I'm the only one who plays Elite.

See, I have the opposite, but it's fragmented between platforms. So there's only reliably enough of us to form a full wing on XBox, but we can end up with situations where we're sitting in the same room, hooked up to the same network, flying around the same system coordinating together on something BGS related, with a couple of us on different platforms.

 

[Sunyavadin]

And while i told them about Möbius, this again was a turndown. Having to sign up for a moderated player group, having to sign up for that by registering and applying on a forum, etc. That's a lot of hazzle to just start playing in a good environment, while you can have the very same in most games out there out of the box, without any extra effort.

I suspect it's an easier sell to folks who are already invested in games which require this, like some of the private servers for Freelancer, such as Discovery.

 

[Eliza]

Hmm. I am not convinced. Every other year, i give open a try again. And quite reliably, i do get attacked if my ship is not a well renowned combat ship (and sometimes even if it is, usually by a wing of players), while people who themselves are not in combat ships avoid me as if i was the devil himself. Non-firebutton based communication always only happened when people were docked and thus not in danger of being attacked.

I know that people here describe different experiences, but it's what happened to me. Not that i lost many ships there, the only ship i ever lost to other players was my imperial courier. I could easily have escaped, but in a ship as cheap as that, i decided to rather stand and fight. Yet i couldn't honestly tell my friends that the bad reputation would not be well deserved. It very much matches my experience of open.

But i guess this now just degrades into yet another open/solo discussion. Sorry for that. It's just really unfortunate that ED has this bad reputation and really has a hard time to get rid of it. I fear that even if FD now implemented a fully functional mode along the lines of Möbius and/or upgraded crime and punishment to a level where it actually mattered, the bad reputation would still stick. It's not easy to get rid of a bad reputation after steadily building it up over several years.

Sorry to read that you had the "luck" to make such a horrible experience. I was ganked only once, also when I was a "Newb". But after I got out of the known hotspots it wasn't that bad at all. Now that I "Git Betta", I remember those times and every bullet / laser-ray I fire upon these jerks are filled with the memories of the past. And it feels great!

 

[Rat Catcher]

Sadly, none of my personal friends play ED, although I may have nearly convinced one I'd really like to play

I bought ED and started playing it, with no prior knowledge of the current game, only memories of the original - which I did enjoy - and no youtube/forum etc. doing the hand-holding.

Yes, I blew up a lot of times in the first couple of weeks play, some of them even caused by other players... No great shakes, I quite like the Sidewinder
I joined in here a few months after starting playing as I did a search to find out something and the forum had the answer - been lurking here since! Here I read the horror stories of gankers and terrible game design... Hmmm...

Nearly 2 years on and still playing, I guess one day I'll run into this terrible design!

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I'm curious, what was his reason to quit Elite?

Hutton Orbital was sold out on Anacondas.

 

[Eliza]

Hutton Orbital was sold out on Anacondas.

 

[Ezren]

I think I see what you are trying to tell me there (at first I thought it means you don't believe me, then that I'd need a therapy). Truth is, about 1/4 to 1/3 of this obsessive number must be wasting my time on this forum while docked somewhere or floating in the void. But still...

 

[Deleted member 182079]

On the 'Elite is a gankfest' reputation, I can sort of understand it and at the same time disagree - in hotspot systems for sure it happens, and pretty regularly, and it happened more than once to me... in fact I stopped counting, it's probably in the several dozens at this stage. I'm actually surprised at those people here who are long time players and hardly ever/never had it happen to them.

Thing is, I got used to getting pulled, I learned lessons from each engagement, I read up a bit on defensive outfitting, on evasive maneuvers incl FA Off, and now unless I willingly take risks i.e. by knowingly flying a build that will likely not survive active engagement, the chances of me blowing up are maybe 5-10%, even against wings. And it implies I'm staying for the fight, and once I pass 50% hull damage or realise I'm losing the battle, I usually don't try to escape any more and just fight to the death (of my ship), because, why not.

On top of that, and this is just a theory of mine, I do recognise quite a few CMDRs now - it honestly feels like a big village at this stage - I know what ships they tend to fly, and many did or at least tried to destroy my ship more than once in the past, but in recent times leave me alone. Maybe because I'm at this stage pretty capable of escaping (especially in smaller ships as most are fastboi type builds - I'm pretty much 100% left alone in those now, even in Deciat), and/or maybe because those CMDRs recognise me also and know I'm eating rebuys without adding salt. Maybe it's the Elite combat rank (even though all that shows is grind stamina as opposed to actual skill, certainly in my case).

Although granted, it took me a while and the first few rebuys really stung badly but they occurred when I had specific goals in the game and credits were harder to come by - so I do get that it puts people off who only start off.

But then, is there really the need to play the game in Open from the get go? Maybe younger players feel the need to default to the MP mode as they would in other titles, no idea... I spent my first two years exclusively in Solo and still managed to enjoy the game. Once I started to feel more adventurous, I tried Open more and more, until I ended up there almost exclusively now.

I guess as has been said above, the reputation is what it is now, and is very hard to shake off. Which is a shame as "getting ganked by other players" is 100% optional.

 

[Bigmaec]

On the 'Elite is a gankfest' reputation, I can sort of understand it and at the same time disagree - in hotspot systems for sure it happens, and pretty regularly, and it happened more than once to me... in fact I stopped counting, it's probably in the several dozens at this stage. I'm actually surprised at those people here who are long time players and hardly ever/never had it happen to them.

Thing is, I got used to getting pulled, I learned lessons from each engagement, I read up a bit on defensive outfitting, and now unless I willingly take risks i.e. by knowingly flying a build that will likely not survive active engagement, the chances of me blowing up are maybe 5-10%, even against wings.

On top of that, and this is just a theory of mine, I do recognise quite a few CMDRs now - it honestly feels like a big village at this stage - I know what ships they tend to fly, and many did or at least tried to destroy my ship more than once in the past, but in recent times leave me alone. Maybe because I'm at this stage pretty capable of escaping (especially in smaller ships as most are fastboi type builds - I'm pretty much 100% left alone in those now, even in Deciat), and/or maybe because those CMDRs recognise me also and know I'm eating rebuys without adding salt. Maybe it's the Elite combat rank (even though all that shows is grind stamina as opposed to actual skill, certainly in my case).

Although granted, it took me a while and the first few rebuys really stung badly but they occurred when I had specific goals in the game and credits were harder to come by - so I do get that it puts people off who only start off.

But then, is there really the need to play the game in Open from the get go? Maybe younger players feel the need to default to the MP mode as they would in other titles, no idea... I spent my first two years exclusively in Solo and still managed to enjoy the game. Once I started to feel more adventurous, I tried Open more and more, until I ended up there almost exclusively now.

I guess as has been said above, the reputation is what it is now, and is very hard to shake off. Which is a shame as "getting ganked by other players" is 100% optional.

I don't say it is, but it certainly has the reputation.
Of the games I know, only ARK (on official servers) has a worse reputation for ganking / noobkilling.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Wait, did you just say Elite horizons for a tenner, not just the base game? Hard to believe...

It was on sale on Steam recently, and yep, for about 10 Euros for base game & Horizons. I was very tempted to get a second account but ultimately decided against it for various reasons.

I don't say it is, but it certainly has the reputation.
Of the games I know, only ARK (on official servers) has a worse reputation for ganking / noobkilling.

Tbh, I never thought Elite had such a bad rep regarding its community. There are so many other games I've considered in the past (Rust, ARK, etc.) where videos of absolutely foul behaviour have put me off, but those are MP only games (afaik), unlike Elite which does have a single player mode. So I don't really get why the Open aspect (which is pretty non-toxic as far as game communities go, in my experience at least) is putting people off the game, unless they somehow feel the need to play all their games with other people online.

 

[Eliza]

On the 'Elite is a gankfest' reputation, I can sort of understand it and at the same time disagree - in hotspot systems for sure it happens, and pretty regularly, and it happened more than once to me... in fact I stopped counting, it's probably in the several dozens at this stage. I'm actually surprised at those people here who are long time players and hardly ever/never had it happen to them.

Thing is, I got used to getting pulled, I learned lessons from each engagement, I read up a bit on defensive outfitting, on evasive maneuvers incl FA Off, and now unless I willingly take risks i.e. by knowingly flying a build that will likely not survive active engagement, the chances of me blowing up are maybe 5-10%, even against wings. And it implies I'm staying for the fight, and once I pass 50% hull damage or realise I'm losing the battle, I usually don't try to escape any more and just fight to the death (of my ship), because, why not.

On top of that, and this is just a theory of mine, I do recognise quite a few CMDRs now - it honestly feels like a big village at this stage - I know what ships they tend to fly, and many did or at least tried to destroy my ship more than once in the past, but in recent times leave me alone. Maybe because I'm at this stage pretty capable of escaping (especially in smaller ships as most are fastboi type builds - I'm pretty much 100% left alone in those now, even in Deciat), and/or maybe because those CMDRs recognise me also and know I'm eating rebuys without adding salt. Maybe it's the Elite combat rank (even though all that shows is grind stamina as opposed to actual skill, certainly in my case).

Although granted, it took me a while and the first few rebuys really stung badly but they occurred when I had specific goals in the game and credits were harder to come by - so I do get that it puts people off who only start off.

But then, is there really the need to play the game in Open from the get go? Maybe younger players feel the need to default to the MP mode as they would in other titles, no idea... I spent my first two years exclusively in Solo and still managed to enjoy the game. Once I started to feel more adventurous, I tried Open more and more, until I ended up there almost exclusively now.

I guess as has been said above, the reputation is what it is now, and is very hard to shake off. Which is a shame as "getting ganked by other players" is 100% optional.

As I stated, I experienced the same at the beginning and hided im solo too. After 2-3 month I discoveres my squad (although it wasn't called so back then) and they convinced me to try open and teached me 1 or 2 things. Now I still stick around with this bunch and never regretted it.

According to "g&g": wich mmo with pvp has no jerks who are only in for lolz? One cannot blame Elite to be the only gankfest out there (remembering my EvE Online career).

 

[Deleted member 182079]

As I stated, I experienced the same at the beginning and hided im solo too. After 2-3 month I discoveres my squad (although it wasn't called so back then) and they convinced me to try open and teached me 1 or 2 things. Now I still stick around with this bunch and never regretted it.

According to "g&g": wich mmo with pvp has no jerks who are only in for lolz? One cannot blame Elite to be the only gankfest out there (remembering my EvE Online career).

Heh, EVE is another game that put me off due to its community's rep (and the time commitment required, but look who's talking with 2k hours and counting in Elite...).

I think the most toxic community I experienced was GTA Online so far. As much as I like the concept of it (P2W aside), it's really unpleasant in reality. Do not recommend.

 

[Eliza]

Heh, EVE is another game that put me off due to its community's rep (and the time commitment required, but look who's talking with 2k hours and counting in Elite...).

I think the most toxic community I experienced was GTA Online so far. As much as I like the concept of it (P2W aside), it's really unpleasant in reality. Do not recommend.

Oh cool another member of the 2k+ club. Cheers!

 

[CMDR Fnool]

It's been my experience that most game-playing females i know, don't see the attraction of ED. I can't be certain but i get the feeling that it's viewed by some, as the gaming equivalent of a five-year-old waving a toy spaceship around and making whooshing noises. I could be horribly wrong here for which i apologise in advance, but that's kind of the impression i get. Same goes for games like Euro-truck driver 2, and most other things that involve vehicles. I have to add i'm very old and out of the loop of popular culture, so i could be seeing it through a dinosaur's eyes, and missing a possible reality that in actual fact, lots of female players love these kinds of games.

 

[Sylow]

Sorry to read that you had the "luck" to make such a horrible experience. I was ganked only once, also when I was a "Newb". But after I got out of the known hotspots it wasn't that bad at all. Now that I "Git Betta", I remember those times and every bullet / laser-ray I fire upon these jerks are filled with the memories of the past. And it feels great!

No need to feel sorry, at least not for me. As said, the only ships i ever lost there was because i decided that the ship is cheap and i can go all in. Up to now, all my ships were set up well enough to survive when i was attacked in open. The problem is that many players have similar stories. Many of them were not prepared for the risk. (E.g. see a posting further above, about a new player being ganked in the starting system, when still trying to learn how to fly. ) And youtube is full of videos telling the very same story.

So no need to feel sorry for me. When i went to open, i knew the risk. (Except the few times i was there by accident and was very surprised to be attacked, but still escaped. ) I know about Möbius, went through the procedure and find it the overall much better playing experience. I found my place, i am fine.

Feeling sorry would rather be in place for those who were driven away by such people and for the game, which gained a bad reputation and thus lost a lot of potential income.

One cannot blame Elite to be the only gankfest out there (remembering my EvE Online career).

Hmm. Same story, basically. Just out of memory, a list of MMOs i tried with my friends, some for more time, some for less. It's not complete, but it might show the idea: Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Neocron 2, Tales of Pirates, Guild Wars 1 & 2, World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, DC Universe, Star Trek Online, Star Wars the old Republic, The Secret World, Bounty Hounds Online, MechWarrior online, World of Tanks, FireFall, Warframe, Elder Scrolls Online. I am rather sure i missed out a few still.

Now based on the topic, you can guess which one was pondered several times, but always rejected due to the bad reputation it had? (And mind you, even Neocron 2 and Warhammer Online actually made the cut and were played for some months! )

Basically one of our group, when we again discussed what to try next, basically put it down like this: the best thing about EvE is that it keeps the worst scum busy elsewhere, so they can't ruin the games we play. The game could actually be awesome. I can't tell. I just know that my old group of friends from university time still uses online games (next to a monthly board game evening) to keep in contact. And the mere reputation of EvE made sure that we never touched it.

It's the very same barrier which ED doesn't manage to break for most of them. Over the years, FD had the chances to fix this. By now, i guess the boat as sailed, i won't manage to get them to play this game any more.