yes, and? nothing about this powerplay discussion changes that. nothing forcing players to do powerplay, and no gameplay is unique to it.
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Nothing about Powerplay requires players to present themself to be shot at.
yes, and thats the topic of this thread, and changing that. welcome to the conversation.
Every game feature is accessible from every mode. Been like that since the beginning, and I personally I don't see that changing ever. And yet there is a very special subset of players who think they are entitled to what fit's their dreams.txt because they play in open. This isn't even as unique to PP as it is being presented right now - I've seen demands in the past to gate the BGS or CGs to open, and even the calls for removing the other modes to facilitate and endorse more PvP. Some players just can't get over the fact that, by Frontier's own admission, a lot of the players simply aren't interested in PvP.
And it's kind of always the same type of player / poster - trying to be super edgy, confrontative, quick to belittle other players, calling them names and accusing them of "hiding" from whatever the boogeyman of the season is.
I wonder why that is.
And it's kind of always the same type of player / poster - trying to be super edgy, confrontative, quick to belittle other players, calling them names and accusing them of "hiding" from whatever the boogeyman of the season is.
I wonder why that is.
The topic of this thread isn't OOPP exclusively. It is all things modes and why people like or dislike them in general.
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Of course!
Every time you choose Open, you are consenting to PvP. No problems there whatsoever.
But it's nowhere said "therefore, Powerplay has to be played only in Open." The players can choose the mod they play in. And that is the foundation of Elite Dangerous.
Whoever doesn't like it, bought the wrong game. Haven't read the fine print. Or not comprehended these sentences.
And expecting FD to change the core of their game for whoever's whims is...
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Or not, as the case maybe, noting differing opinions as to whether such a change would represent an improvement to each players enjoyment of the game.
Ah yes, players have an opinion, how entitled of them. The comments from folks like you are always the same. Moralizing the matter, talking down to others, insulting their intelligence, telling others to just leave the game entirely, along with all the other implicit and explicit insults to the character of someone who dares suggest that the feature we have which was designed with pvp in mind at its core, needs tweaking.
Doesnt matter to me at all if a player doesnt want to do pvp, if they dont, then powerplay isnt for them. Why? Powerplay is basically a map overlay only and a flag you get under your name which puts you in opposition to other players. It purposely condenses players into the same systems where they would be opposing one another. If a player isnt interested in pvp, then powerplay isnt for them, becuase regardless of if theyre in open or not they still must compete against other players. All we're asking is that the pvp feature of the game be adjusted to fit in line with its stated goals and design choices. I'll never understand why players who by their own admission dont want pvp, and will insist they will never engage with it, oppose a change that wont impact them at all. Its just a desire to make sure "muh gankers", a title they use for everyone who has ever shot at another ship, are punished for a rebuy they ate in their paper ship one time years ago.
We all bought the game knowing that there were three modes of play. Solo oriented players like me were happy that I could do everything in the game that I wanted without having to PvP. On the other hand, some were not happy that as PvP orientated they could not engage with the solo orientated. Therefore, to get what they wanted, they lobbied changes to benefit them to the detriment of the solo orientated players.
Not going down the "discuss the poster" route too deeply, but that's exactly what you do for pages now. Being edgy, lol'ing all the time and "welcoming people to the discussion" isn't exactly productive in an argument. I try to be always respectful and consider other people's input and opinions when they are presented in a respecful and coherent manner. If you find my way of writing talking down and insulting your intelligence, well that's a burden I am going to live with.
Apparently because you say so it's a fact. Label it more as your opinion and less as a fact, and the discussion suddlenly gets much less heated. Maybe think about that for a bit.
Yes, and that's why I (just speaking for myself here) have agreed multiple times that PP is PvP, just not the kind of PvP people keep calling for - the whole symmetric vs. asymmetric thing.
It does affect them very much if all the PvE loops (which there are quite a few of) in PP suddenly are gated to open, whether as a whole or in part. The fundamental misunderstanding (or maybe it's on purpose or out of spite) is that when people say they are not interested in PvP, they mean "shooty shooty" PvP. Playing for territory, be it BGS or PP, is always PvP - but mostly of the "fill your bucket faster" type, even after the revamp of PP.
As you adressed me personally as basically being toxic towards your line of arguments: You might have noticed that I personally haven't really complained about gankers. Personally I have never been ganked because I know how the game works, how the modes work and because I don't fly paper ships in open. I dislike the choice of gameplay of gankers, and I dislike the hypocrisy of "looking for the human challenge" while simultaneously seal clubbing in Deciat, and personally I find it harmful for the game. And I make no excuse for that.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Repeatedly insisting that those who don't enjoy in the same instance PvP should not engage in Powerplay does not make it so.
The pan-modal nature of the feature entirely undermines the "it's only for those who PvP" position.
I'm not sure how that follows.
Everything is optional and everyone accepts this, even if they don't like it.
How optional certain aspects should be, and the merits of hypothetical changes, are the points of contention. There is no real confusion over how the game currently works with regard to modes.
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thought the game was either perfect or going to be forever locked in the state in which it was when they purchased it. The game has changed enormously since I started playing it.
I bought the game knowing it had flaws. I'd still like there to be fewer flaws. Flaws being completely subjective, of course.
For what it's worth, So did I. Of course the game has flaws, assuming otherwise is silly. Some flaws could be easily corrected, some can't. Some are objectively flaws or bugs, some are very subjective. And some things are just fundamental, and I think the modes and all features being eqally available in all of them is one of the fundamentals.
Is it a tough cookie to balance? Probably. But gating any content from any of the modes in favor of another is a dangerous slope in my opinion, and as a developer I wouldn't touch that with a ten feet pole, especially after almost eleven years.
There is not a single PVE loop locked behind powerplay. Powerplay is very purposely only using the other existing loops, and even outlines which ones the different powers incentivize. Filling buckets is not a game loop in powerplay. Its measurement of activity, and occurs at the same time you do other things. Nothing else. The gameplay loop of filling buckets is colonization.
That's not what I was saying.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It follows because PvP interactions are, for some, merely interruptions of engagement in PvE content, imposed upon the target by the attacker.
I misread, my mistake. I see what youre saying but then what separates PP from BGS?
Of course not, and i'm not even suggesting anything like that. And over the years we have had many improvements.
But buying the game and then complaining incessantly that the game has modes, knowing full well the game has modes, it is, to be blunt, stupid beyond belief.
It would be like playing EvE and complaining there is no PvE mode.
Its one reason I have never bought Sea of Thieves, although I would love to play it, only if it had a PvE mode... and yes, i know they added one, but they put restrictions on it. I think they know the regular mode would die a death the moment they added a fully functioning PvE mode. Maybe in a few years, when the PvP players move on, then they'll make that change.
Change like that that isn't likely to happen in ED though, as the population eventually dwindles, PvE becomes more relevant while PvP less so.
I completely agree. It's a forlorn hope, at best (and even the strongest proponents of such changes acknowledge this). There are too many prerequisites to such changes and far too little motivation/appetite for them on FDev's part.
My issue is with tautological non-arguments that amount to saying 'things are the way things are', as if that precludes any discussion of change.
And PvP is hardly unique here. Plenty of complaints about NPC interactions, travel times, grind, et al interrupting other content. What is it about PvP that mandates it should be more optional for trade than say, supercruise?
The purpose. And that PP is actually meant to be played for territorial gains, when playing the BGS wasn't, as I understand it, a planned game feature but the players basically "hijacking" what was meant to be just that - a background simulation.