General / Off-Topic The Orville is the best Star Trek since TNG

[Eukanuba23]

I thought I liked Discovery: season one was interesting and all that. People said it wasn't real Star Trek but I didn't pay them much attention.

Between Discovery seasons, I watched The Orville. The first season has too many puerile jokes that don't fit into the narrative, but overall it's really, really good and properly catches the spirit of Next Gen, if the Enterprise was populated by real people who aren't always the best they can be. So more realistic people, arguably.

I watched the first episode of Discovery 2 the other day and it's too shiny and too serious and I don't really care. There's also the millstone round its neck that Star Trek has been forced to wear for years: having to make enough excuses to fit into canon. So this is why they have different uniforms? Oh, so that's where Spock is? Potentially good stories ruined by the need to pacify the element of the fanbase that will go on the internet and be pedantic if given half the chance.

Season 2 of The Orville has been really excellent so far. The gags have been minimised (or at least woven properly into the story), and in my opinion we now have a Star Trek that hits all the proper emotional beats that Next Gen did at its very best. And (also like the very best Star Trek) it makes intelligent comment on contemporary issues.

 

[Marklar_]

I love this show, it's like STNG for a grow-up audience. The jokes don't always land, but it's pretty funny overall.

 

[Jenner]

Watched the first episode and dropped it there.

It's not really fair to judge a show by the first episode, I know, but frankly neither the Orville *or* Discovery are what I'm after for Trek.

To me the series basically ended after DS9. That's fine.... others can enjoy the new stuff. I'll just re-watch the classics if I need a Trek fix.

 

[mossfoot]

I watched the first episode of Discovery 2 the other day and it's too shiny and too serious and I don't really care. There's also the millstone round its neck that Star Trek has been forced to wear for years: having to make enough excuses to fit into canon. So this is why they have different uniforms? Oh, so that's where Spock is? Potentially good stories ruined by the need to pacify the element of the fanbase that will go on the internet and be pedantic if given half the chance.

I have to admit, trying to cram everything to fit canon can be a huge problem. You should only ever address it if you HAVE to... not to scratch someone's itch.

I loved the movie Solo, but it's major failing was trying to cram EVERY single Han Solo line, reference, or piece of equipment into the movie. A few callbacks (callforwards?) are okay, even necessary, but there is just no need to explain EVERYTHING about him (really? His name? Solo because he's alone? You know that none of the Skywalkers have ever been seen walking on air, right?)

Anyhoo.. I have yet to catch up on season 2 of either series. I liked Discovery (a lot) because of it's overarching approach to its storyline (big Babylon 5 fan here, therefore, interconnectivity rules). The Orville has promise, and while I only liked the first season alright as a timewaster, it was still MILES better than the actual first (an most of the second) season of TNG. So if they're improving, it will be interesting to see where they go

Bottom line, there's room for everyone to like what they like, for the reasons they like it. The butt hurt and fan whinging on any of these franchises just makes me roll my eyes.

 

[Krash]

The Orville is excellent. Maybe better than TNG because it has to be smart and witty to compete in today's streaming world. Some of the episodes even manage to be poignant. The last one with the robot and the doctor caught me by surprise with how it ended. All I can say is smart writing when its not trying to be preachy or political.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I thought I liked Discovery: season one was interesting and all that. People said it wasn't real Star Trek but I didn't pay them much attention.

Season one of Disco was in many ways a travesty of a show meant to pander to modern sensibilities while doing its best to screw over 50+ years of Star Trek lore. The fact they felt the need to shoehorn Burnham in to Spocks family history speaks to that.

They totally passed up on the chance of having the first compelling Captain since Sisko by revealing Lorca as nothing more than a mirror universe baddy. Don't even get me started on the finales we are Starfleet scene on the Disco bridge.

Season two has in part tried to repair some of the damage from season one by actually having a few traditional trek like episodes interspersed with Burhams tedious monologues.

She is to me an amalgamation of Harry Kim, Wesley and Tasha Yar and the show would be a million times better with her gone.

Between Discovery seasons, I watched The Orville. The first season has too many puerile jokes that don't fit into the narrative, but overall it's really, really good and properly catches the spirit of Next Gen, if the Enterprise was populated by real people who aren't always the best they can be. So more realistic people, arguably.

I watched the first episode of Discovery 2 the other day and it's too shiny and too serious and I don't really care. There's also the millstone round its neck that Star Trek has been forced to wear for years: having to make enough excuses to fit into canon. So this is why they have different uniforms? Oh, so that's where Spock is? Potentially good stories ruined by the need to pacify the element of the fanbase that will go on the internet and be pedantic if given half the chance.

Season 2 of The Orville has been really excellent so far. The gags have been minimised (or at least woven properly into the story), and in my opinion we now have a Star Trek that hits all the proper emotional beats that Next Gen did at its very best. And (also like the very best Star Trek) it makes intelligent comment on contemporary issues.

Yea Orvilles crap mate sorry.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I love this show, it's like STNG for a grow-up audience. The jokes don't always land, but it's pretty funny overall.

I've heard that half of the writing staff from STTNG is working on the Orville, so that helps to explain why it is so TNG like.

 

[Eukanuba23]

I think that a large part of the purpose of the first episode of S2 of Discovery was to make the point that they are going in a different direction. In the real world, the showrunner was fired midway through season one, and in Discovery S01E01 a character makes a point of saying how bad the old captain was and assuring everybody that the new captain will be much better. Very subtle.

Watched the first episode and dropped it there.

It's not really fair to judge a show by the first episode, I know, but frankly neither the Orville *or* Discovery are what I'm after for Trek.

To me the series basically ended after DS9. That's fine.... others can enjoy the new stuff. I'll just re-watch the classics if I need a Trek fix.

I rewatched season one of The Orville after having watched the newer episodes and it was a bit too cringey and a bit too Family Guy.

IMO DS9 only got good from season 3 onwards (and it was SO GOOD from S3 onwards), and even TNG was pretty rubbish for the first two seasons, standout episodes excepted. I would say that my favourite episode of Orville S2 so far has been this one (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7826030/?ref_=ttep_ep3), so if you're inclined please give that a go.

 

[Chris Simon]

Yup.
Although personally I dropped STG after two episodes and reading some reviews, recently, I did good.
Orville is awesome. By the ST fans for the ST fans.

 

[Eukanuba23]

I've heard that half of the writing staff from STTNG is working on the Orville, so that helps to explain why it is so TNG like.

And the look of it too! The first thing my girlfriend did when she saw the Orville bridge was to ask how they could get away with it.


It's so obviously made with love for TNG, and I think season two has really found its groove. Seth MacFarlane is finally letting himself write things that don't rely on non sequiters and irrelevant gags.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I think that a large part of the purpose of the first episode of S2 of Discovery was to make the point that they are going in a different direction. In the real world, the showrunner was fired midway through season one, and in Discovery S01E01 a character makes a point of saying how bad the old captain was and assuring everybody that the new captain will be much better. Very subtle.

The two lead writers who replaced Fuller in season one were fired themselves part way through season 2.

Sadly hack writer producer Kurtzman is now leading the production of Disco so I imagine the progress they've made with season 2 will ground to a halt come mid-season.

 

[Rade Konn]

Great show even though I dislike Seth Macfarlene. Upset about the Alara situation!

 

[Eukanuba23]

The two lead writers who replaced Fuller in season one were fired themselves part way through season 2.

Sadly hack writer producer Kurtzman is now leading the production of Disco so I imagine the progress they've made with season 2 will ground to a halt come mid-season.

Oh dear. Disco S1 reminded me of Westworld S1, in that it seemed to building towards something great and then the last couple of episodes ruined it. I'll keep at it for another couple of episodes but I'm very glad The Orville exists. Sorry you don't like it, have you given season two a go or do you just hate Seth MacFarlane?

 

[EUS]

Watched the first season, it's like going out for italian food, kinda boring, no surprises, I can take it or leave it.
I expected more. I blame those around me talking it up, I thought it was going to be funnier.
Of course people draw similarities to TNG, it's a rip off of it.
SM has a problem; he can write scripts, he can write music, he can produce, but all his material are reproductions of stuff that was great at the time (70's 80's stuff), but his reproductions end up being a product that does everything "ok", but nothing original, nor great, which means it won't be memorable.
Very beige.

 

[Eukanuba23]

Great show even though I dislike Seth Macfarlene. Upset about the Alara situation!

So upset. She is fantastic and I hope that whatever is needed to rectify it gets rectified.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Oh dear. Disco S1 reminded me of Westworld S1, in that it seemed to building towards something great and then the last couple of episodes ruined it. I'll keep at it for another couple of episodes but I'm very glad The Orville exists. Sorry you don't like it, have you given season two a go or do you just hate Seth MacFarlane?

I don't hate him I just dont think he or his work is particularly funny.

I also don't think he's done anything with the Orville that wasn't done better by TNG back in the day.

 

[Eukanuba23]

I don't hate him I just dont think he or his work is particularly funny.

I also don't think he's done anything with the Orville that wasn't done better by TNG back in the day.

I can't argue with your opinion and I personally find Family Guy and related shows very tedious.

I do feel like he's hit some gold with Orville, with the interpersonal relationships, with the Black Mirror-style episode and with the likeability of the main characters. If you haven't tried season two I would suggest you have a go, and if you have then fair enough.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Watched the first season, it's like going out for italian food, kinda boring, no surprises, I can take it or leave it.
I expected more. I blame those around me talking it up, I thought it was going to be funnier.
SM has a problem; he can write scripts, he can write music, he can produce, but all his material are reproductions of stuff that was great at the time (70's 80's stuff), but his reproductions end up being a product that does everything "ok", but nothing original, nor great, which means it won't be memorable.
Very beige.

The second season has an episode that involved the Orville recording the last planet in a system getting swallowed by an expanding Sun. The stellar phenomena they were witnessing was better than anything we saw the TNG crew do during their exploration. The situation got more complicated as the episode went on. The episode had a more tragic ending than most TNG episodes. Meanwhile, the subplot with Bortas covered more issues with sex and marriage than most non-scifi shows and better. It was also extremely funny.

The show is clearly becoming more TNG like and less like a Seth McFarlane STTNG Fanfic.

The only real "failing" is that the show is anachronistic in that it constantly makes references to pop culture of today - way more than a civilization 300 years from now should be making. However, that makes it more relatable to the audience, so I let it slide.


I still want to see Discovery just to judge the train wreck (if it is one) for myself. I'm just going to pay CBS for privilege to do so. Bleh.

 

[Eukanuba23]

The only real "failing" is that the show is anachronistic in that it constantly makes references to pop culture of today - way more than a civilization 300 years from now should be making. However, that makes it more relatable to the audience, so I let it slide.

TNG was also pretty rooted in the pop culture of the 20th century: Picard loved pretending to be a 1940s noir detective and Data sang Irving Berlin songs. Orville is a bit more explicit in its references but it's functionally the same thing.

I really, really hope that the new Picard series lives up to its pedigree. I genuinely believe that Patrick Stewart is the best human being who has ever existed so I'm confident that he won't have agreed to do it unless it's brilliant.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I don't hate him I just dont think he or his work is particularly funny.

I also don't think he's done anything with the Orville that wasn't done better by TNG back in the day.

Fair enough. Sometimes Seth McFarlane can get on my nerves too.

As far as not handling anything better... for the most part TNG was the better show, because of the cast/crew/writers/etc. However, not handled ANYTHING better?! Nope, have to disagree with you there. While the original series boldly tackled race issues, TNG (and all the following shows) failed to handle gay or transgender issues well at all. Bortas and his husband, their culture, and the whole sexual reassignment surgery episodes was far more on point and brave then anything TNG ever did.

And then there was the blue alien that caused his marital breakup. When he returns, we find out it's because his species goes into heat and becomes super attractive to everyone. The captain ended up banging the very (alien) guy that did his wife. And they did the whole thing very "matter of fact" and not in a "very special episode" manner.

I love TNG, but it did NOT do everything right. Not even the science (e.g. 7th season episode "Genesis").