The point of view, from an armchair developer.

Pros:

The galaxy simulation is astonishing, i really appreciate the work and time spent to make it as real as possible, this is truly the juvel and shining beacon of Elite.
As the planetary generation gets more perfected, the wasteland of the planets and moons will be more interesting to visit.

Flight and vehicle model in Elite is really good, the speed cap (flight) is there for gameplay reason, most of us understand that, however they feeling of moving the ships around in different
gravity pulls are truly a work of art, it will challenged the pilots and combined with heat management this is a great way of challenging the player.

Puzzles in Elite are actually plentiful, and for the observant player this is where you could spend considerable time to try and crack the nut of one of the many puzzles.

Cons:

Grind grind grind grind, everything is connected to a grind, some of it do not feel like a grind (good game development) a lot feels like a second job (not so good game design)
The feeling of a dead world. ( I need to explain this a bit more)
- The development has come a long way, voice greetings, voice recordings to find and replay, however somehow the worlds just feel dead. This can be used in a good way IF you give the
the player a taste of what it is supposed to be, like in some horror games where you play in a full active environment with NPCS doing routines and so on, then by some event brings the player into
the main game world where there is only him or her in it.

In Elite most of the time there is no one, not even at the so called space ports, only a recorded message playing in the speakers.

There are many many ways to do this and you the reader should check this out, it's a demo of how to do it.
http://megacity.unity3d.com/MegaCity_GDC2019_Release_OC.zip (7.1Gb)

In this demo, there are only traffic activity, however it gives you the sense of scale, if you want to go one level deeper it could be done like my next example.

Planet coaster! yes in planet coaster, you actually have NPCS walking around in a predefined area doing "stuff" this could be done in Elite too.

Suggestions:

When the space ports are created, they should contain all the NPC activity, it would be a predefined area that could be inserted into the planets where they should be.
small rovers driving around, could be on rails to make it easier to control, repair crew walking around, cargo being moved around and so on.

Space elevators to Atmo planets, could be one way to control the access to this planets, you would not need to give the players full access, only through the space station in orbit would the
player gain access to the planet and the ride down planetside could load the access to the atmo planets, of course that would require legs to work, however it would be a good transition from ship to
walking around. These planets could also be few and therefore concentrate the players more together in a smaller area, activities could be many, intel collection by hacking, assassination, or join a local conflict on the planet to fight to conquer bases. We already got these gameplay mechanics in the game, and it would just be an expansion of those mechanics.

My point, FDEV should concentrate the developing efford on smaller areas like a few planets, and make them interesting to go to, this would populate the game world with players and with the right
tools available they will make the game world alive. GTA is a good example of how multiplayer within a gameworld gives you the feeling of being in a real world, and not in a dead one.
 
I came to this thread hoping to find suggestions for how to improve my sitting comfort :mad:

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Pros:

The galaxy simulation is astonishing, i really appreciate the work and time spent to make it as real as possible, this is truly the juvel and shining beacon of Elite.
As the planetary generation gets more perfected, the wasteland of the planets and moons will be more interesting to visit.

Flight and vehicle model in Elite is really good, the speed cap (flight) is there for gameplay reason, most of us understand that, however they feeling of moving the ships around in different
gravity pulls are truly a work of art, it will challenged the pilots and combined with heat management this is a great way of challenging the player.

Puzzles in Elite are actually plentiful, and for the observant player this is where you could spend considerable time to try and crack the nut of one of the many puzzles.

Cons:

Grind grind grind grind, everything is connected to a grind, some of it do not feel like a grind (good game development) a lot feels like a second job (not so good game design)
The feeling of a dead world. ( I need to explain this a bit more)
- The development has come a long way, voice greetings, voice recordings to find and replay, however somehow the worlds just feel dead. This can be used in a good way IF you give the
the player a taste of what it is supposed to be, like in some horror games where you play in a full active environment with NPCS doing routines and so on, then by some event brings the player into
the main game world where there is only him or her in it.

In Elite most of the time there is no one, not even at the so called space ports, only a recorded message playing in the speakers.

There are many many ways to do this and you the reader should check this out, it's a demo of how to do it.
http://megacity.unity3d.com/MegaCity_GDC2019_Release_OC.zip (7.1Gb)

In this demo, there are only traffic activity, however it gives you the sense of scale, if you want to go one level deeper it could be done like my next example.

Planet coaster! yes in planet coaster, you actually have NPCS walking around in a predefined area doing "stuff" this could be done in Elite too.

Suggestions:

When the space ports are created, they should contain all the NPC activity, it would be a predefined area that could be inserted into the planets where they should be.
small rovers driving around, could be on rails to make it easier to control, repair crew walking around, cargo being moved around and so on.

Space elevators to Atmo planets, could be one way to control the access to this planets, you would not need to give the players full access, only through the space station in orbit would the
player gain access to the planet and the ride down planetside could load the access to the atmo planets, of course that would require legs to work, however it would be a good transition from ship to
walking around. These planets could also be few and therefore concentrate the players more together in a smaller area, activities could be many, intel collection by hacking, assassination, or join a local conflict on the planet to fight to conquer bases. We already got these gameplay mechanics in the game, and it would just be an expansion of those mechanics.

My point, FDEV should concentrate the developing efford on smaller areas like a few planets, and make them interesting to go to, this would populate the game world with players and with the right
tools available they will make the game world alive. GTA is a good example of how multiplayer within a gameworld gives you the feeling of being in a real world, and not in a dead one.
It's always a pleasure to read good constructive criticism (as opposed to general whining) so thanks for posting your likes, dislikes, and wants, OP :)

I disagree that FDev should only focus on a few planets, but I do agree that more NPCs everywhere will add much more life to the game so I'd love to see that addition :D
 
It's always a pleasure to read good constructive criticism (as opposed to general whining) so thanks for posting your likes, dislikes, and wants, OP :)

I disagree that FDev should only focus on a few planets, but I do agree that more NPCs everywhere will add much more life to the game so I'd love to see that addition :D
As I'm a fully licensed armchair developer, i got no clue about how difficult it would be to make, however making a few planets with a lot of stuff would kind of attract players and
therefore make it more interesting, and you would not need to star jump a gazillion times by .....well we all know the drill. So it was just my two cent.
 
Just commenting one thing : FD is repetitive but not a pure game grinder as other games could be... In general, it is far from grindy now compares to 2.1 for instance or other particular games.

Only thing that FD is : empty.
 
"In Elite most of the time there is no one, not even at the so called space ports, only a recorded message playing in the speakers. "

I play EVE Online which a far more player orientated game and I am in a system only 8 jumps from a major trade hub (there are only 5) living in the "bubble" (high sec) and I will be lucky even during weekends if in my system there are like 6 (currently 5) and before you get excited , usually 2/3rds of them are either AFK or passing by.

Comparing my experience with EVE and Elite I have not noticed any diffirence in terms of player population although I once tried to compare the Elite's starting systems which would be the equivalent of EVE's trade hubs and almost destroyed the moment I stepped my foot in the system.

You think Elite is grindy, by no means don't even try EVE :D I think most of us like a bit of grind, also grind is an easy solution for devs because providing content for a massive bubble, i wont even mention galaxy, is just unrealistic.

At least Elite players get around A LOT , how many groups we have of explorers that travel massive distances to get to the other side of the galaxy. I have lost count. In EVE someone managed to travel in all 7805 systems and made it in top news.


Although to be fair the news was that "she" did make it out alive , which is kinda big deal for EVE standards. Of course she also did a lot more than travel around but that is not uncommon for Elite's explorers either.
 
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Regarding the OP, that demo is in Unity, but ED is using Frontier's own Cobra engine. So just because one engine can render those scenes doesn't mean the other can, nor can it necessarily just be shoe-horned in to do so.

If Unity was a good engine for space sims, I'm sure the cluster-wotsit that is Star Citizen could have been changed over when they did an engine switch, and they didn't so that would suggest to me that Unity has it's place, but not in space...?
 
My point, FDEV should concentrate the developing efford on smaller areas like a few planets, and make them interesting to go to, this would populate the game world with players and with the right tools available they will make the game world alive.
While I agree that there is a problem, part of what is special about Elite is the vast size of the galaxy, and even the Bubble. While there are already a few special planets and locations, too much concentration on a small number of locations would make these the focus of the game, and change its character so that most players would only ever play in or near those locations. This might still be a good game, but would, I think, be a very different game from ED.
 
In my opinion, space should not feel crowded. Stations should not feel crowded most of the time. There should still be a feeling of expansion, exploring the unknown just beyond occupied systems and even within occupied systems where low level exploration could still happen. So I don't see a problem with being alone in space, as far as that goes (alone in the ship is a different matter). So to me it's more about scale. Planets and stars seem to be scaled about right, but ships in SC are terribly over sized lumps of light that could be reduced in size to give the feeling of a larger system. I've seen ships leaving a planet that totally blind out the planet itself. Even a nuclear explosion on a planet should not dwarf the light from the planet.

There's an odd mix of arcade level gaming with sim, and the arcade level gaming is a detractor at least for me.

As for the rest of the kudos offered, I agree. It's why I am playing the game years after I bought it instead of playing some "hot off the press" game that's promised so often to blow away ED.
 
While I agree that there is a problem, part of what is special about Elite is the vast size of the galaxy, and even the Bubble. While there are already a few special planets and locations, too much concentration on a small number of locations would make these the focus of the game, and change its character so that most players would only ever play in or near those locations. This might still be a good game, but would, I think, be a very different game from ED.

Let’s leave the player population for a moment, i would like some activity in the ports, cargo being moved around, repair team doing stuff, you know activity, as I said the game has come a long way, but I still feel the world is a dead world.

Regarding the size, I love the huge size, I’m just suggesting that concentrating activity around smaller areas would be great because most players would actually see what was created and most players would be doing stuff in these areas.
 
As you identify, there is a lot good with ED but there is a lot that could be improved. For me, the grind is a non-issue as I just accumulate what I need at my own pace which is why I haven't unlocked most of the Engineers, am not Elite anything and have about 400million in credits, despite playing from day one.

However, pretty much everything else you have identified I agree with. Ports have been devoid of life since launch, with the exception of the looped animation of the vehicles in the tubes, there is no planetary NPC activity other than skimmers and guardians - it would be fantastic to see other SRVs driving around, especially if these are of a different class to the ones we have.

I am really quite nervous about the 2020 update; part of me wants to believe that the team are going to hit it out of the park and make ED the space game with atmospheric landings, loads of "life" etc. However, it is also very easy to be cynical about the future.
 
As you identify, there is a lot good with ED but there is a lot that could be improved. For me, the grind is a non-issue as I just accumulate what I need at my own pace which is why I haven't unlocked most of the Engineers, am not Elite anything and have about 400million in credits, despite playing from day one.

However, pretty much everything else you have identified I agree with. Ports have been devoid of life since launch, with the exception of the looped animation of the vehicles in the tubes, there is no planetary NPC activity other than skimmers and guardians - it would be fantastic to see other SRVs driving around, especially if these are of a different class to the ones we have.

I am really quite nervous about the 2020 update; part of me wants to believe that the team are going to hit it out of the park and make ED the space game with atmospheric landings, loads of "life" etc. However, it is also very easy to be cynical about the future.

We need to dial down the expectations, it is very easy to be carried away in speculations, one thing I would like is more dev diaries to see what they are working with, however you almost need the Spanish Inquisition to get any information from FD these days. I still got high hopes for what’s coming.
 
Pros:

The galaxy simulation is astonishing, i really appreciate the work and time spent to make it as real as possible, this is truly the juvel and shining beacon of Elite.
As the planetary generation gets more perfected, the wasteland of the planets and moons will be more interesting to visit.

Flight and vehicle model in Elite is really good, the speed cap (flight) is there for gameplay reason, most of us understand that, however they feeling of moving the ships around in different
gravity pulls are truly a work of art, it will challenged the pilots and combined with heat management this is a great way of challenging the player.

Puzzles in Elite are actually plentiful, and for the observant player this is where you could spend considerable time to try and crack the nut of one of the many puzzles.

Cons:

Grind grind grind grind, everything is connected to a grind, some of it do not feel like a grind (good game development) a lot feels like a second job (not so good game design)
The feeling of a dead world. ( I need to explain this a bit more)
- The development has come a long way, voice greetings, voice recordings to find and replay, however somehow the worlds just feel dead. This can be used in a good way IF you give the
the player a taste of what it is supposed to be, like in some horror games where you play in a full active environment with NPCS doing routines and so on, then by some event brings the player into
the main game world where there is only him or her in it.

In Elite most of the time there is no one, not even at the so called space ports, only a recorded message playing in the speakers.

There are many many ways to do this and you the reader should check this out, it's a demo of how to do it.
http://megacity.unity3d.com/MegaCity_GDC2019_Release_OC.zip (7.1Gb)

In this demo, there are only traffic activity, however it gives you the sense of scale, if you want to go one level deeper it could be done like my next example.

Planet coaster! yes in planet coaster, you actually have NPCS walking around in a predefined area doing "stuff" this could be done in Elite too.

Suggestions:

When the space ports are created, they should contain all the NPC activity, it would be a predefined area that could be inserted into the planets where they should be.
small rovers driving around, could be on rails to make it easier to control, repair crew walking around, cargo being moved around and so on.

Space elevators to Atmo planets, could be one way to control the access to this planets, you would not need to give the players full access, only through the space station in orbit would the
player gain access to the planet and the ride down planetside could load the access to the atmo planets, of course that would require legs to work, however it would be a good transition from ship to
walking around. These planets could also be few and therefore concentrate the players more together in a smaller area, activities could be many, intel collection by hacking, assassination, or join a local conflict on the planet to fight to conquer bases. We already got these gameplay mechanics in the game, and it would just be an expansion of those mechanics.

My point, FDEV should concentrate the developing efford on smaller areas like a few planets, and make them interesting to go to, this would populate the game world with players and with the right
tools available they will make the game world alive. GTA is a good example of how multiplayer within a gameworld gives you the feeling of being in a real world, and not in a dead one.
I like these suggestions. I don't agree on the grind though. But the ideas are great and agree that the game doesn't feel alive enough.
 
Good posts.

A couple of points.

For FD to have NPCs walking around space ports and whatnot, that's already a chunk of what is required for space legs to happen, so its kind of a big question if they will consider doing that before they move onto doing space legs. However, their doing it might be an indication that space legs is on its way. As a first step, lets have our NPCs in our cockpits!

I disagree with your point about fleshing out a few specific areas rather than doing the usual proc gen thing that applies across the board. While i see a benefit, i'd much rather see them continue with their slower-across-the-board-but-wide-reach approach they have used to date. Yes, it has its downsides, but in the long term upsides, and I think FD do look to the long term rather than the short term with their development decisions.
 
Good posts.

A couple of points.

For FD to have NPCs walking around space ports and whatnot, that's already a chunk of what is required for space legs to happen, so its kind of a big question if they will consider doing that before they move onto doing space legs. However, their doing it might be an indication that space legs is on its way. As a first step, lets have our NPCs in our cockpits!

I disagree with your point about fleshing out a few specific areas rather than doing the usual proc gen thing that applies across the board. While i see a benefit, i'd much rather see them continue with their slower-across-the-board-but-wide-reach approach they have used to date. Yes, it has its downsides, but in the long term upsides, and I think FD do look to the long term rather than the short term with their development decisions.

Yes if we’re talking about crew walking around, it would require space legs, however I’m sure it would be possible to make a few SRV drive around on rails, also adding more activity in the cargo areas could be done without people walking around. I get the impression that the effort simply was not done due to cost as it would not bring gameplay values, only a pretty scenery for the players to look at. There is a lot of gameplay around combat, however not so much when it comes to mining or cargo hauling. Real cargo hauling should be in huge ships that cannot dock in the station, a new type of docking for these mega ships would need to be designed. However when in place they would bring a lot of gameplay to the table, just think of hauling minerals from large mining stations.

I don’t know if we would ever see mega cargo ships controlled by players, if the are afraid of players becoming too rich, they could just prevent them from transporting anything the player purchased, and only transport by contract from station to station.

Mining got a big upgrade, and it is great, I just need planetary mining on a bigger scale that collecting rocks.
 
Yes if we’re talking about crew walking around, it would require space legs, however I’m sure it would be possible to make a few SRV drive around on rails, also adding more activity in the cargo areas could be done without people walking around. I get the impression that the effort simply was not done due to cost as it would not bring gameplay values, only a pretty scenery for the players to look at. There is a lot of gameplay around combat, however not so much when it comes to mining or cargo hauling. Real cargo hauling should be in huge ships that cannot dock in the station, a new type of docking for these mega ships would need to be designed. However when in place they would bring a lot of gameplay to the table, just think of hauling minerals from large mining stations.

I don’t know if we would ever see mega cargo ships controlled by players, if the are afraid of players becoming too rich, they could just prevent them from transporting anything the player purchased, and only transport by contract from station to station.

Mining got a big upgrade, and it is great, I just need planetary mining on a bigger scale that collecting rocks.

Would love to see SRVs driving around. I wouldn't like to see SRVs stuck on their back like beetles, waving their little wheels in the air, so on rails might be the way, but what if a player rams them? Should they flip, should they stick?

IIRC, FD said the reason they didn't put SRVs on planets driving around were due to the complexity of the AI required... not impossible, but not trivial i presume. It raises the question though, what is the mistress working on these days that requires her skills?
 
IIRC, FD said the reason they didn't put SRVs on planets driving around were due to the complexity of the AI required... not impossible, but not trivial i presume. It raises the question though, what is the mistress working on these days that requires her skills?
Indeed !

I should imagine there is a challenge in achieving flight of ships in atmospheres of different densities. Then there's L ...........
 
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