The Problem with Odyssey missions... nothing for your ship.

It's getting annoying that you have to go to the Concourse for every Odyssey mission. I see no compelling reason for this, except perhaps to strictly (and even spatially) separate the two mission types Odyssey and Horizon. But that too could easily be regulated via a menu sub-item, which would then only be available to Odyssey owners. Otherwise, the menu structure is completely identical.
Truth be told, there is an acceptable alternative to the repetitive and ultimately pointless concourse run IMO: visiting settlements. There, at least, I can check out mission givers and terminals while pursuing other goals.

I would still prefer to have all mission types available from all terminals in the game, though. The on-foot missions could have a separate tab, like passenger missions do. And I still think the concourse run should be skippable.
 
As far as I know, only money. And money is pretty meaningless after a certain point, as you should know by now. Or has some NPC mission giver who didn't offer material at first, ever changed his mind and now offers some? I haven't used this function much yet, but recently I had the impression that negotiations after 'much' more are always successful with allies and pretty static. I could be wrong though.

No, material rewards definitely go up. I'm not sure about INF and REP, would need to check that out.

Regarding material rewards, you need to bargain for a lot more to make something that only offers a low amount up. I think there is number rounding at play and i suspect it rounds down and its all based off the credit value.

So, let's say you have a mission offering 1 power regulator worth 100k, and you bargain up for a bit more, let's say 150k, then it will still be 1 power regulator. But bargain for a lot more and you get 200k, then it becomes 2 power regulators.

It is more apparent when they are offering 5 materials, as bargaining for a bit more might get you 6 or 7. I've heard people getting 10 materials from an initial 5, although not had that myself, but i've been jumping around systems a lot, not generally staying long enough to become allied.
 
But aren't they both basically the same thing: doing something to do it better as the only motivation, the only source of fun? Please explain what the fundamental difference is between space missions and surface missions. Both amount to some kind of engineering, so what is the difference? I'm not generally against questioning engineering as such, but then we should question both variants and not just the one we just happen to like best (especially because it's still new?).
Isn't that kind of the whole point of playing games that feature advancement, rather than creative-mode sandboxes or hard sims?

I know I would've gotten bored with Kerbal Space Program, Minecraft, Surviving Mars, and just about any other game I can name if I didn't feel a sense of accomplishment from pursuing goals. Frontier Development's continuing and ever growing Monty Haul Campaign reward has been primarily responsible for me not playing this game as much as I did when I started.

I wanted to play a struggling commander, who needs to make meaningful decisions, which frequently push me out of my comfort zone, to get ahead in an unforgiving world. Instead, I find myself playing a wealthy dilettante, whose most meaningful decision these days is what kind of mission am I in the mood to do.
 
Isn't that kind of the whole point of playing games that feature advancement, rather than creative-mode sandboxes or hard sims?

I know I would've gotten bored with Kerbal Space Program, Minecraft, Surviving Mars, and just about any other game I can name if I didn't feel a sense of accomplishment from pursuing goals. Frontier Development's continuing and ever growing Monty Haul Campaign reward has been primarily responsible for me not playing this game as much as I did when I started.

I wanted to play a struggling commander, who needs to make meaningful decisions, which frequently push me out of my comfort zone, to get ahead in an unforgiving world. Instead, I find myself playing a wealthy dilettante, whose most meaningful decision these days is what kind of mission am I in the mood to do.
It's more of a difficulty setting Fdev choose than gameplay type
 
I've always found difficulty settings to be immersion killers, even in single player games (the only ones where I can at least halfway accept them). The problem with difficulty settings is that far too often they serve as a cheap ploy for game developers to escape any responsibility for good balancing by simply leaving it up to the players. This turns any game into a shallow form of entertainment and, on reflection, is a poor show for game developers. It can be done sensibly, but it needs to be thoroughly guided and structured by the devs, but not with this sandbox nonsense (which is all too often just another excuse for not delivering decent game mechanics).

I hear where you are coming from, but on the other hand, they also stop arguments about whether enemies need to be nerfed or made harder. You always have the elites who brag about how they can kill the main boss with nothing but a bucket on their head and how the game should be made harder and at the other extreme you have people who can't even beat the easiest bosses.

There are a wide range of skill levels between players and by adding difficulty levels you can cater to a much wider demographic and satisfy more players rather than turning them away from the game.

Its a bit of a guilty please of mine on forums when i see someone bragging about how they play a game on ultra-max-mega-killer-death diifculty and how its still too easy, to drop in with a post saying i play it on the easiest difficulty and its so much fun. Sometimes they get really wound up that people can finish a game on easy mode when they put so much effort in. Bonus points if the game doesn't have any sort of rewards for doing it on a harder difficultly, no steam achievements, no different ending.
 
Ah, very interesting. Good to know. Since you seem to do it more regularly, did you every run into the case where the allied mission giver rejected a 'much higher' bargain attempt? And what happens in this case? Does it affect the current offer (like in reset to basic) or even negatively affects Inf or Rep?

Depends on their reaction (RNG with modifier based on REP as far as i can tell). You either get told to take the current offer that you negotiated or forget it, or else they just tell you to take a hike.
 
This seems to be a constant theme and I wonder what's driving it? Do their project managers have attention issues? Are they using poor root cause analysis to drive decisions?

EVE Online used to have a feature called the Captain's Quarters which was the beta for their version of space legs. It was pretty clear they had a lot of learning to implement performant biped animation but for what it was it had potential. Much like many things here the feature got neglected to the point it was negatively impacting other rendering tasks so they removed it. When asked why they said "but nobody used it!" ... Of course nobody used it because performance sucked and all we could do was walk from the couch to another chair.
Maybe I'm being unfair ... it's not the technical people who won't do these things, but perhaps the game designers or people who prioritize features. They have alluded to resource constraints as some reasoning behind not doing some things, so it very well may be a financial constraint.
 
I hear where you are coming from, but on the other hand, they also stop arguments about whether enemies need to be nerfed or made harder. You always have the elites who brag about how they can kill the main boss with nothing but a bucket on their head and how the game should be made harder and at the other extreme you have people who can't even beat the easiest bosses.

There are a wide range of skill levels between players and by adding difficulty levels you can cater to a much wider demographic and satisfy more players rather than turning them away from the game.

Its a bit of a guilty please of mine on forums when i see someone bragging about how they play a game on ultra-max-mega-killer-death diifculty and how its still too easy, to drop in with a post saying i play it on the easiest difficulty and its so much fun. Sometimes they get really wound up that people can finish a game on easy mode when they put so much effort in. Bonus points if the game doesn't have any sort of rewards for doing it on a harder difficultly, no steam achievements, no different ending.
Ground instalaltions in Ody are way harder than old Horizons ones, especially in CZ, but same apply for some settlements, yet, rewards for finishing Ody missions are worse than in Hor, it's hard to go further with those kind of blunders left behind for a year now, if you are involved in some sort of indirect pvp in BGS, you have to choose betwean grindy efficiency and fun that come from new gamplay. It's not acceptable in any game, no matter it's sandbox or linear gameplay. I disagree with any decision that flatten influance regardless of skills, it kills sense of progress.
 
I don’t understand why they introduced new materials in the first place. We already had 2 currencies - credits to buy stuff and materials to upgrade.
Why introduce a third?

I get that new engineers for on-foot upgrades is ok, but why not just have them use the same materials we already had? That way, ship missions and on-foot missions can be used for both types of upgrade.

There is already a huge disconnect between ship and on-foot gameplay. The decision to separate the materials required just makes it even bigger.

Crazy really
 
Ground instalaltions in Ody are way harder than old Horizons ones, especially in CZ, but same apply for some settlements, yet, rewards for finishing Ody missions are worse than in Hor, it's hard to go further with those kind of blunders left behind for a year now, if you are involved in some sort of indirect pvp in BGS, you have to choose betwean grindy efficiency and fun that come from new gamplay. It's not acceptable in any game, no matter it's sandbox or linear gameplay. I disagree with any decision that flatten influance regardless of skills, it kills sense of progress.

What? CZ aren't hard!

I've heard of people doing them in Artemis suits!
 
Ah, very interesting. Good to know. Since you seem to do it more regularly, did you every run into the case where the allied mission giver rejected a 'much higher' bargain attempt? And what happens in this case? Does it affect the current offer (like in reset to basic) or even negatively affects Inf or Rep?

A successful negotiation at Allied level will usually double the material reward.
Especially nice when that means getting 10 Manufactured Instructions out of a successful negotiation instead of 5.
 
I always predicted this long before we actually got it. And it serves as a very welcome template for all ship interior dreams. If anything, FDev has impressively demonstrated that they are completely incapable of convincingly filling static interiors with meaning and life. The only exception are missions in surface installations; these are surprisingly quite good.
I agree with this very much.
Ship interiors would only make sense if there is meaningful gameplay associated with it. Empty static and plain corridors are boring and don't contribute to anything, really. Same as walking from the hangar to the concourse. Fantastic the first few times, but after the 20th, 50th or 100th time it's really just an 'UGH"! moment.
 
People seem to get upset with fade to black.... "Armstrong moment"

But if youre talking about instant travel times, no, i don't want that in my space game.
Not talking about instant travel, just cut out unnecessary waiting. Don't use the FSD either. I mean, that's instant travel to the nearest stars
This isn't a mobile game, where one is trying to sell microtransactions to skip waiting.

There is no gameplay value in making a player wait for nothing.
 
I've really enjoyed the Odyssey missions, and Odyssey in general has made me fell more like a ship captain/space freelancer than ever. It's very immersive to me to fly my little viper out to a settlement, disembark, and walk over to the place to do whatever mission related activity I'm there for -- or just to look around and get a feel for the place. Same for exploration. Now that I can get out of my ship and look for plants and whatnot, I feel more like a space explorer. And the views are fantastic.

I know a lot of people don't feel this way (clearly) but I think Odyssey has added a lot to the game. And I'm very much enjoying it.
 
What I had in mind with the sentence "It can be done reasonably, but it has to be thoroughly managed and structured" was something like open chess tournaments (even has the name in common, after all!). Not really comparable, but the situation where completely asymmetrical skill levels encounter each other is very similar to our wild and uncontrolled "Open" mode. The biggest difference is that in a well-organised structure like a chess tournament, this situation evens out very quickly and everyone finds themselves in a field of equally strong players after a few rounds. This even goes so far as to have different rewards at the end, with prizes for each rating group (with the highest prizes for the most skilled players).

From a chess player's point of view, all Open in ED stands for is extremely poor, almost non-existent game design. And so, in the end, no one is really satisfied: ace pilots looking for a challenge are disappointed because they waste their time with too many sheep, while the sheep are unhappy about being constantly steamrolled. There's a reason why there's a never-ending stream of threads initiated by enthusiastic PvPers trying to force everyone into their favourite battleground - which is Open. And of course, by its very nature, the higher a pilot's skill level, the more this state of affairs tends to be welcomed. You could of course (and it does seem to happen) organise private tournaments. Which, however, only helps one of the two sides.

But if you look at the basic design of ED and compare it again to chess, it's as if the developers don't provide the game as such, but only the venue, boards and other needed material, but can't even design reasonable tournament rules. If that's fine with you, then good for you. For my part, I find this a pathetic display of any self-respecting game designer.

But as I am all too aware that I am questioning a sacred cow here, and before this thread becomes another of the many "Open" vs "Solo" threads, I'll shut up and take my coat.

Ok, but i'm not sure what you're advocating for here then anyway. That ED instances be split by skill level?
 
As a solo player, my main concern is more variety on the NPC side of the game. I'm actually in favour of zones or more distinct differences in NPC behaviour depending on the security status of the system. We all know from the past that they can bring brutally tough NPCs, so that shouldn't be a problem from there. For PvPers, there should be a much stronger reaction in high security systems and almost no or no reaction in anarchy systems (similar to what we already have, only much more pronounced). Even if this sounds a lot like EVE now: Why not adopt the one thing EVE does right - and which is also so obvious? It would bring more variety, life and meaning at least to the populated areas.

Ah, i see. Yes, i'd like to see more differences like that.
 
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