....and attacking their supply routes which presumably exist. Where do they come from? What is their route here? Do they have a forward base?
The "problem" with the current Thargoid attack gameplay
- Thread starter NeilF
- Start date
....and attacking their supply routes which presumably exist. Where do they come from? What is their route here? Do they have a forward base?
Then there's the T-10. Most of us who have them (I would guess) are using them elsewhere for other duties. No game play so far to actually 'defend' somewhere.
Scout where? Thargoid drive technology exceeds what we have. For those in the know, we know what happened when a human tried using reverse-engineered Thargoid drive tech - if you don't know, the long and short of it is, the pilot was found some time after the test, turned inside out and dead.
We don't know where, exactly, they come from - for all we know, they could live in a parallel dimension that is incompatible with our form of life. But please, by all means, venture there. If we don't hear back from you, we'll know this is the case.
A "First Counter-strike" would be a viable option, if, as noted above, we knew where they were, where they came from, where they went, and could travel there and survive there. Right now we don't and we can't.
Defending stations - now this could very well be a whole lot of fun - as long as the stations remember to turn off their "no fire zone" and stand down their weapons. Last thing anyone wants is to be vaporized by a station for trying to defend it. I could see this as being a very viable game-play system - Set an "Under Threat/Under Attack" marker for the station itself, drop in, engage thargoid ships as they appear either alone or with other commanders, kind of CZ-style. This would also afford griefers plenty of opportunity to shoot normal commanders in the back trying to defend the station, so this would work out for everyone. You could be sure Elite's Largest Feminine Hygiene Products would show up in Open to prey on every normal person they could. This just requires some design work and implementation to pull off, but would be exceptional.
Instead, what we currently have is:-
- Thursday morning server tick - Station(s) damaged.
- "Safe" evacuation gameplay.
- "Safe" repair gameplay.
So all we see is a distant shadow of what's supposedly taking place in these terrible attacks...
And we're suppose to feel engaged how? We're suppose to feel motivated why? We're suppose to buy into this threat because?
Anyway, this is my take at least on the current position... Looking at it at the moment, personally I don't feel much motivation to get involved because, (a) there's not much gameplay involved that attracts me (this is a game not a job), and (b) I don't feel I/we can make any/much of a difference.
ps: And a minor comment along these lines - Maybe if a station is damaged by a Thargoid attack, any CMDRs who left their ships onboard should face a rebuy screen next logonThis is suppose to be Winter in Elite Dangerous is it not?
So I don't disagree - this is, as seems to be pretty standard for Frontier or at least for Elite - a mostly thought out and roughly implemented system. A gem-in-the-rough. But no, this isn't Winter, nor Game of Thrones (yes, I FINALLY figured out where that expression came from - sorry, I hate the show and the books). This might be autumn though.
"We must evacuate damaged stations," I hear some CMDRs telling us. "We must repair damaged stations," I hear some CMDRs telling us. The problem is, what's unfolding risks feeling like a set of switches being flicked each Thursday morning, so IMHO it's not surprising many CMDRs simply risk responding with, Why?
Let's consider for a second where we are supposedly in the ED universe. Thargoids are now attacking stations. So what should we be doing logically?:-Instead, what we currently have is:-
- Possibly sending out scouting parties trying to spot the enemy. Seeing if they're building up in numbers etc etc. ie: Tactical information where they might be heading to next?
- If possible, try and hit them first before they can reach a station? ie: A first strike to stop an attack or reduce their numbers?
- Supply stations at threat to potentially build up defense related assets, to help them defend against any Thargoids arriving there?
- Defend stations, so if Thargoids do turn up, there's forces there or at least nearby to help reduce the damage done?
- And during evacuations/repairs, maybe defense could still be an issue, at least early on there would be the threat of Thargoid ships still potentially turning up again?
- Thursday morning server tick - Station(s) damaged.
- "Safe" evacuation gameplay.
- "Safe" repair gameplay.
So all we see is a distant shadow of what's supposedly taking place in these terrible attacks...
And we're suppose to feel engaged how? We're suppose to feel motivated why? We're suppose to buy into this threat because?
Anyway, this is my take at least on the current position... Looking at it at the moment, personally I don't feel much motivation to get involved because, (a) there's not much gameplay involved that attracts me (this is a game not a job), and (b) I don't feel I/we can make any/much of a difference.
ps: And a minor comment along these lines - Maybe if a station is damaged by a Thargoid attack, any CMDRs who left their ships onboard should face a rebuy screen next logon
Why? Gameplay. It's a game; playing it isn't compulsory. If I do decide to play, FD have structured it so that the Pleiades shenanigans is just one option. Do it for fun, or do not; there is no try.
To the extent that I decide to play this game because I enjoy it, I'm engaged, motivated and bought-in.
You think this Thargoid invasion is a game? Tell that to the survivors trying to escape Obsidian and Reed's Rest !
Did you guys notice that the two highest traffic Obsidian Orbital attacked threads were just moved out of the most popular forum section, and into one of the "backwater" sections most people never look at?
I only found out about the attacks last night because of those forum threads this morning! There is NOTHING on GalNet, and NOTHING on the game launcher about this!
And now the moderators are moving these threads out of a high visibility area and into the opposite location! [wacko]
THIS is precisely the kind of clueless handling of 2.4 many are sick and tired of!
I only found out about the attacks last night because of those forum threads this morning! There is NOTHING on GalNet, and NOTHING on the game launcher about this!
And now the moderators are moving these threads out of a high visibility area and into the opposite location! [wacko]
THIS is precisely the kind of clueless handling of 2.4 many are sick and tired of!
verminstar
Banned
The problem is they arent hostile and the so called invasion never materialized. Looking at who they are attacking...why did they stop? Why they started isnt really that much of a mystery, even a complete moron could work out why which ties in with why they stopped. They could have destroyed the station but didnt because they dont want a war, just some privacy considering we invaded their land...they didnt invade us because they were already there.
That or the thargoids are without a doubt the dumbest creatures that ever evolved space flight...but Im guessing they reallly aint that dumb and its humans that are the aggressors here, not the thargoids. All the evidence confirms it even to a casual observer. Why not just kill Jacques fer instance? Why go to the trouble of ending his journey and then leave him utterly alone? The facts just dont add up here with far too many inconsistencies.
So if FD wish us to consider this an actual invasion with real hostile aliens...then it really needs to be server wide and not restricted to one small part of it...otherwise its just a new combat zone mechanic, and thats about as special as it looks atm ^
That or the thargoids are without a doubt the dumbest creatures that ever evolved space flight...but Im guessing they reallly aint that dumb and its humans that are the aggressors here, not the thargoids. All the evidence confirms it even to a casual observer. Why not just kill Jacques fer instance? Why go to the trouble of ending his journey and then leave him utterly alone? The facts just dont add up here with far too many inconsistencies.
So if FD wish us to consider this an actual invasion with real hostile aliens...then it really needs to be server wide and not restricted to one small part of it...otherwise its just a new combat zone mechanic, and thats about as special as it looks atm ^
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Philip Coutts
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah I have to agree, especially the part about the action all happening as if by rails every Thursday. I would prefer a lot more sporadic Thargoid attacks and sightings rather than ohhh it's a Thursday time for a Thargoid station attack.
Agreed with the OP, hate to say it but this is now becoming a bit run of the mill as in oh look another Thargoid in a US, but now its stations, dont get me wrong I really like the whole look of it and was happy to read that things were moving forward, but it feels next week it will be X station with nothing going along with it bar what has already been done, and tbh I sort of forgot about the whole Thargoid thing until someone posted about Obsidian Orbital being attacked.
Unless of course I missed the galnet article or a forum post from one of the CM's telling us to get our backsides into gear there's work to be done, or even a CG based around searching for clues or answers to what and why.
Unless of course I missed the galnet article or a forum post from one of the CM's telling us to get our backsides into gear there's work to be done, or even a CG based around searching for clues or answers to what and why.
It’s pretty clear that the interaction and escalation is being rolled out in stages. The dev challenge is how long to keep one stage of The Return going before the next?
Now we have no idea what the next gameplay loops will be. Sure, we can be optimistic or pessimistic about it in our speculations and wants.
There are players who are just starting, who just got back from exploring, or just returned to the game each week that are experiencing the station rescue for the first time in this tick. The first experience is exciting and fun. So when do they make the call to move to the next phase?
Frontier has the player numbers to work with. I assume they are watching the interaction and have triggers for the next event.
I can certainly see how the immediate content consumers jump on the new stuff, then become bored as the rest of the player base catches up. It’s been a problem in supported games from the beginning.
Each release of Return content is like raising the level cap, and new fun continues. I’m excited to see what’s next. I was at Obsidian, and woke up with my ship docked in a rescue bay?! Boy those movers were quiet. It was actually pretty exciting.
Now we have no idea what the next gameplay loops will be. Sure, we can be optimistic or pessimistic about it in our speculations and wants.
There are players who are just starting, who just got back from exploring, or just returned to the game each week that are experiencing the station rescue for the first time in this tick. The first experience is exciting and fun. So when do they make the call to move to the next phase?
Frontier has the player numbers to work with. I assume they are watching the interaction and have triggers for the next event.
I can certainly see how the immediate content consumers jump on the new stuff, then become bored as the rest of the player base catches up. It’s been a problem in supported games from the beginning.
Each release of Return content is like raising the level cap, and new fun continues. I’m excited to see what’s next. I was at Obsidian, and woke up with my ship docked in a rescue bay?! Boy those movers were quiet. It was actually pretty exciting.
One would expect something along those lines... But I am afraid based on simple observation over the last 3-4 months that they likely misplaced their telemetry binder back in August and no one has bothered to go looking for it.
I think 3 months between phases is probably the sweet spot for the majority of the player base to experience each. There’s a lot of players...One would expect something along those lines... But I am afraid based on simple observation over the last 3-4 months that they likely misplaced their telemetry binder back in August and no one has bothered to go looking for it.
I'm sure most of the various expanded scenarios had occurred to FDev. Developing and then deploying the new assets plus the supporting new--probably non-existent--gameplay mechanics is another matter entirely...
The big picture issue is that they've been hyping the Thargoid/Alien story for nearly two years now and the build-up had sharply increased a year ago with the first Hyperdictions, etc. Six months ago I've spent many an hour parked at a Barnacle site awaiting for the Thargoid Jesus to appear. Never did. Compared to that 2.4 is a big step forward, since I also belonged to the "never been hyperdicted" camp.
In hindsight the "2.4 will be rolled out gradually over a period of time." Yup, that's what happening when you have limited resources asked to deliver what amounts to the equivalent of a Hollywood-style production of a sci-fi saga with epic fleet battles in an interactive way. Cue in the soundtrack from "Mission Impossible:" CMDR, your instance will self-destruct in 5 seconds.""
Perhaps...just perhaps, it would have been a better strategic direction to fix the plumbing limitations first before unleashing the Return narrative. The pressure is always there from the player base for new content, but the severely limiting instancing limits and probably a bunch of other things prevent these events to unfold anywhere near their potential and the Galactic-wide expectations implied in "Winter is coming."
I'm sure they will deliver something like that eventually. Could be Winter 3305 or "Beyond." In the meantime, there are still more Guardian mysteries to solve.
The big picture issue is that they've been hyping the Thargoid/Alien story for nearly two years now and the build-up had sharply increased a year ago with the first Hyperdictions, etc. Six months ago I've spent many an hour parked at a Barnacle site awaiting for the Thargoid Jesus to appear. Never did. Compared to that 2.4 is a big step forward, since I also belonged to the "never been hyperdicted" camp.
In hindsight the "2.4 will be rolled out gradually over a period of time." Yup, that's what happening when you have limited resources asked to deliver what amounts to the equivalent of a Hollywood-style production of a sci-fi saga with epic fleet battles in an interactive way. Cue in the soundtrack from "Mission Impossible:" CMDR, your instance will self-destruct in 5 seconds.""
Perhaps...just perhaps, it would have been a better strategic direction to fix the plumbing limitations first before unleashing the Return narrative. The pressure is always there from the player base for new content, but the severely limiting instancing limits and probably a bunch of other things prevent these events to unfold anywhere near their potential and the Galactic-wide expectations implied in "Winter is coming."
I'm sure they will deliver something like that eventually. Could be Winter 3305 or "Beyond." In the meantime, there are still more Guardian mysteries to solve.
Likewise, but at the same time there is this ancient axiom: Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
the only thing destroying ships parked at attacked stations would do is cause players to disengage even further from thargoid gameplay and park all their ships as far away as possible from the new content FDev is trying to roll out.
The problem is really that there is no way to engage with the goids unless you want to kill them or take on the ridiculous task of trying to grind enough cargo to a station without any rewards/motivation to do so.
For me, I like fighting the goids, its fun....but I am NOT grinding cargo deliveries for the repairs. that's just mindless busywork.
The problem is really that there is no way to engage with the goids unless you want to kill them or take on the ridiculous task of trying to grind enough cargo to a station without any rewards/motivation to do so.
For me, I like fighting the goids, its fun....but I am NOT grinding cargo deliveries for the repairs. that's just mindless busywork.
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"We must evacuate damaged stations," I hear some CMDRs telling us. "We must repair damaged stations," I hear some CMDRs telling us. The problem is, what's unfolding risks feeling like a set of switches being flicked each Thursday morning, so IMHO it's not surprising many CMDRs simply risk responding with, Why?
Let's consider for a second where we are supposedly in the ED universe. Thargoids are now attacking stations. So what should we be doing logically?:-
Instead, what we currently have is:-
- Possibly sending out scouting parties trying to spot the enemy. Seeing if they're building up in numbers etc etc. ie: Tactical information where they might be heading to next?
- If possible, try and hit them first before they can reach a station? ie: A first strike to stop an attack or reduce their numbers?
- Supply stations at threat to potentially build up defense related assets, to help them defend against any Thargoids arriving there?
- Defend stations, so if Thargoids do turn up, there's forces there or at least nearby to help reduce the damage done?
- And during evacuations/repairs, maybe defense could still be an issue, at least early on there would be the threat of Thargoid ships still potentially turning up again?
- Thursday morning server tick - Station(s) damaged.
- "Safe" evacuation gameplay.
- "Safe" repair gameplay.
So all we see is a distant shadow of what's supposedly taking place in these terrible attacks...
And we're suppose to feel engaged how? We're suppose to feel motivated why? We're suppose to buy into this threat because?
Anyway, this is my take at least on the current position... Looking at it at the moment, personally I don't feel much motivation to get involved because, (a) there's not much gameplay involved that attracts me (this is a game not a job), and (b) I don't feel I/we can make any/much of a difference.
ps: And a minor comment along these lines - Maybe if a station is damaged by a Thargoid attack, any CMDRs who left their ships onboard should face a rebuy screen next logon
Exactly this. +1 Rep inbound.
I LOVE that analogy you used there at the end!
[up]I am sure everyone who went out to The Oracle or one of the other first three stations for that very first time were more than impressed by what they saw there. I certainly was! It was one of a handful of moments within this game that was truly jaw dropping to witness for the first time.
As I sat there parked some clicks away from the entrance to The Oracle that first time, I just wanted to take it all in. Take it all in BEFORE I headed off to the second and third station that was also attacked. As much as I didn't want to be right, I was pretty sure that when I got to that next station, I was going to basically see a "Rinse and Repeat" of what I was currently looking out at.
And of course, as we all know, that is precisely what awaited me and everyone else when they arrived at that second station. Sure the station damage was slightly different, but I was also looking at a Coriolis now instead of a ringed Orbis design. *
But the reuse of assets to the point of groans went even farther than I had expected when I first heard the second station's frantic traffic controller on my Comms system. IDENTICAL to the voice I had heard at The Oracle! Not only was the voice actor the same person, but what was playing out of the game were the identical audio files! I was hearing word for word, the exact same script I had heard coming from The Oracle's traffic controller! BOO! [sad] [down]
I don't know about you guys, but that was hands down the most disappointing revelation for me that night. I know what goes in to recording voice overs in a recording studio, having owned such a studio for 20 years myself. I know how much time it would have taken to record separate and unique VOs for each and every station that got attacked. I also know that just 4-6 individual collections of audio files could have been used over 30-40 stations and most players would not notice for a good long time.
But I digress to a degree...
My point is simply that despite how epic the whole thing looked the very first time we all saw it. The fact that Frontier chose to do the minimum amount of work possible in order to deliver this content left me cold.
* I have since learned from visiting all of the attacked stations so far, that every single Orbis station involved ends up loosing the same exact portion of its front/primary ring during the attack. You can take screenshots of every one of these stations, line them up side by side and see what I am referring to. Not so much as a modest change to the amount of missing ring, or putting it on the secondary ring instead or whatever.
Nope... Identical.
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I LOVE that analogy you used there at the end!
I am sure everyone who went out to The Oracle or one of the other first three stations for that very first time were more than impressed by what they saw there. I certainly was! It was one of a handful of moments within this game that was truly jaw dropping to witness for the first time.
As I sat there parked some clicks away from the entrance to The Oracle that first time, I just wanted to take it all in. Take it all in BEFORE I headed off to the second and third station that was also attacked. As much as I didn't want to be right, I was pretty sure that when I got to that next station, I was going to basically see a "Rinse and Repeat" of what I was currently looking out at.
And of course, as we all know, that is precisely what awaited me and everyone else when they arrived at that second station. Sure the station damage was slightly different, but I was also looking at a Coriolis now instead of a ringed Orbis design. *
But the reuse of assets to the point of groans went even farther than I had expected when I first heard the second station's frantic traffic controller on my Comms system. IDENTICAL to the voice I had heard at The Oracle! Not only was the voice actor the same person, but what was playing out of the game were the identical audio files! I was hearing word for word, the exact same script I had heard coming from The Oracle's traffic controller! BOO! [sad] [down]
I don't know about you guys, but that was hands down the most disappointing revelation for me that night. I know what goes in to recording voice overs in a recording studio, having owned such a studio for 20 years myself. I know how much time it would have taken to record separate and unique VOs for each and every station that got attacked. I also know that just 4-6 individual collections of audio files could have been used over 30-40 stations and most players would not notice for a good long time.
But I digress to a degree...
My point is simply that despite how epic the whole thing looked the very first time we all saw it. The fact that Frontier chose to do the minimum amount of work possible in order to deliver this content left me cold.
* I have since learned from visiting all of the attacked stations so far, that every single Orbis station involved ends up loosing the same exact portion of its front/primary ring during the attack. You can take screenshots of every one of these stations, line them up side by side and see what I am referring to. Not so much as a modest change to the amount of missing ring, or putting it on the secondary ring instead or whatever.
Nope... Identical.
I agree with a lot of this. I too was very impressed at first. Rescuing people off the station was compelling and new, as an experience, which even lasted a few hours. But I haven't been back there, other than to record some video of stations in repair, since i was in the neighborhood.
But it was sort of inevitable. This was always going to be a lot of dev time for something that wouldn't last very long for individual CMDRs.
Which is why I think FD should really just concentrate on developing out the sandbox, and let players create the stories. It would be more varied, more complexly interwoven, and even just the sheer volume of it, produced by the crowd of CMDRs, would far exceed whatever FD ever could put in a story line.