The problem with the exploration features, where's the gameplay?

[Vasious]

I want more things to do with the research limpets, & short range composition scanner so one can collect samples from as much as possible, and have a reason to SRCS things more than once for the codex.

Have Scanning things with the SRCS generate a new data material category

I want there to be a demand for samples and data scan that is more than just CRs

Let me trade samples of Molluscs* and Asher trees*, and SRCS Scan data of L-Type Anomalies* at Material Traders for other materials.
Let me trade samples from P-Type & Q Type Anomalies* and SRCS Scan data of Peduncle Trees* to Tech brokers to unlock interesting modules
Let me hand in samples and SCRS scan data to the Science and Research Contact to help trigger a "Scientic breakthrough" state in factions that see increase production, demand for Scientist passengers and/or temporary supply of Tech Broker-esque/side grade modules

Let us have Exploration CGs where we have to collect samples and SRCS scan data


* Example only

 

[loki12345]

One thing that could easily be implemented would be more information about not landable planets. When I think about the old elite on the c64 was that you got written information about some special features of the Flora and fauna on the planet. What plants are there, what live forms. This would be a nice touch if we could get those infos after using the probes on atmospheric planets. Maybe with a picture of what it looks like down there. Would be a little extra to the scanning while not being too complicated to implement as far as I see.

 

[Rustnsawdust]

How can it be nerfed when it's never had more exploration content?

Agreed. I've never found exploration more engaging. It isn't that they've added more stuff to find (although they have), but that they've given us workable tools to find what's there. I've found half-a-dozen bio sites that I never would have seen before the DSS mechanic. And way more geo sites than I'd ever seen before.

And I should add that I have no sympathy or time for the 'jaded, seen it all' players. They're appalling in real life, and no less so in game. We all know them - seen one sunset, seen them all; seen one spectacular waterfall, seen them all; seen one lion on the National Geographic channel, no need to go on safari; people have helicoptered to the top of Everest, what's the point in climbing it. It doesn't matter what FD put in the game, or what mechanics they provide, it will never be enough. They should be ignored.

 

[Sapyx]

The OP wishes to add more danger and excitement to explorition. There are issues here:

- Adding events which are unavoidable and simply provide random death, is probably not desirable. Eg. jump into a star and there's a 1 in 1000 chance of there being a Thargoid battlecruiser right there waiting for you at the arrival point. Boom, Thargoid god-guns bring instant death, no avoiding, no "gameplay" other than a cutscene then the rebuy screen. I don't think anyone wants that.

- Adding events which are unavoidable and simply provide random damage, is probably not desirable either, because if you get unlucky, you might get three such random events in a row - so it amounts to "random death", only slightly less probable.

- Adding events which are dangerous but avoidable would be pointless, because most explorers would simply avoid them. How many explorers right now bother checking out the "signal source" USSs that you still sometimes find within 2000 LYs of the Bubble? None - because they might contain a nasty surprise (pirates or whatnot). Now, perhaps if the risk/reward were tweaked such that interrupting your exploration plans to investigate a potentially risky anomaly might actually grant you some special reward not otherwise obtainable, there might be some benefit or use here - for example, a "rescue the princess" scenario where the princess offers to join your crew, for free, out of gratitude for being rescued.

- Adding random, unavoidable events which seem dangerous, but actually aren't, is perhaps the best that can be hoped for. It would tend to turn the galaxy into a giant theme park. Thargoid hyperdictions are perhaps a classic example of this. All scary fireworks, but not actually dangerous unless you've gone out of your way to make them dangerous.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The OP wishes to add more danger and excitement to explorition. There are issues here:

- Adding events which are unavoidable and simply provide random death, is probably not desirable. Eg. jump into a star and there's a 1 in 1000 chance of there being a Thargoid battlecruiser right there waiting for you at the arrival point. Boom, Thargoid god-guns bring instant death, no avoiding, no "gameplay" other than a cutscene then the rebuy screen. I don't think anyone wants that.

- Adding events which are unavoidable and simply provide random damage, is probably not desirable either, because if you get unlucky, you might get three such random events in a row - so it amounts to "random death", only slightly less probable.

- Adding events which are dangerous but avoidable would be pointless, because most explorers would simply avoid them. How many explorers right now bother checking out the "signal source" USSs that you still sometimes find within 2000 LYs of the Bubble? None - because they might contain a nasty surprise (pirates or whatnot). Now, perhaps if the risk/reward were tweaked such that interrupting your exploration plans to investigate a potentially risky anomaly might actually grant you some special reward not otherwise obtainable, there might be some benefit or use here - for example, a "rescue the princess" scenario where the princess offers to join your crew, for free, out of gratitude for being rescued.

- Adding random, unavoidable events which seem dangerous, but actually aren't, is perhaps the best that can be hoped for. It would tend to turn the galaxy into a giant theme park. Thargoid hyperdictions are perhaps a classic example of this. All scary fireworks, but not actually dangerous unless you've gone out of your way to make them dangerous.

In summary:

If I'm unlucky I could die - BAD
If I'm stupid I could die - GOOD

 

[marx]

Six months in, not every species with traits has had all those traits catalogued to the Codex.

But sure, they're only good for screenshots.

First off, you're making an assumption here: that the Codex is always correct with registering and listing the lifeform traits. However, seeing the general state of the Codex, half a year after its release, and how it has problems with missing entries, things failing to scan, wrong information and so on, it's entirely reasonable to assume that at least some traits are still listed as undiscovered not because nobody found them, but because they are bugged as well.

Other than getting a new line in the Codex though, what is the point of those traits? More broadly, what is the point of the spaceborne life? There could easily be gameplay to be had there, but all we can do with them is to scoop some samples from just a few(!), which sell for peanuts and do nothing else. (At least, none of the ones I know of, sold at bulk, would produce any effects, like UAs once did.) You can discover them and/or their traits, and have them added to the Codex, unless you're unlucky and it doesn't work.
So yeah, I'd say that unless you're a Codex completionist, their most useful features right now are screenshots. They do look pretty good, after all.


Also, let's not forget that CG from four months back which was supposed to found a research centre to analyse these. That sounded promising... but not a word since then.
I wonder if the live team will remember to implement this, or if we'll have to wait until 2020 Q4 (or beyond) to get this alien research gameplay as well.

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

I agree that USS gameplay needs to be polished up and scripted out a bit. For something that is so tied to mat grind, which itself is tied for worst thing about Elite with long-distance traversal (with obv exception of ganker trash exploiting open), it could be way more interesting.

Plenty times you jump into a degraded emissions, it's the same thing. "Here's between 4 and 10 floating thingies". If you're lucky, there'll be a busted Anaconda or Type-9. This should be expanded. It doesn't need anything major to be added to be expanded from where it is right now. All ships should be capable of being derelicts in USS, and there should be the possibility of more than one. Maybe the Anaconda was able to shoot down one of its attackers first?

They should increase possible scenarios in USS. Sometimes you jump in, you catch a guy just jumping out. Sometimes you jump in, you find a wake. Sometimes you jump in, Navy shows up right after. Sometimes you jump in, pirates show up (care must be taken on AI scale and loadout as we're ambushing the player on a possible threat 0). Sometimes you jump in, a neutral might show up and start scooping some stuff (care must be taken not to worsen mat grind). I like it when good stuff happens in space and there isn't enough of that.

I like your escape pod idea.

 

[space voyager]

The Cannon site lists about 70 things on surfaces - abandoned bases, crashed ships, some other stuff. There's more stuff out in space - 'lost' generation ships, orbital installations, megaships, and more. That's human stuff, not counting Thargoid and Guardian sites.

Have we found everything? If you think so, please explain why you think so.

We're not talking about needles in the haystack. The discoveries you write about are abnormally hard to find and kudos to explorers that did.

What we are talking about is gameplay for regular explorers that venture kLYs away from Earth and want something to do, other than look at planets. And variety of things to be found.

I support the addition of exploration gameplay. In any form. Personally I'd be very happy if there was random stuff to be found, things that could either help you immediately (a derelict with still active repair limpet or with a small quantity of fuel you can add to you tank) or things that you need to bring back to the bubble to enhance the performance of your warship. Just an example would be a derelict Guardian ship with a... circuit? you can ask an engineer to apply to you Gauss cannon and enhance its AX performance.

I'd go further and go for stuff enhancing the performance of ships and modules, though I can only imagine the immense outcry of PvP community. Who cares, this would give "everyday" worth to exploration and see a new wave of explorers that wouldn't just be looking for either Earth-likes (and other valuable planet types) or unique looking solar systems.

 

[Old Duck]

I support the addition of exploration gameplay. In any form. Personally I'd be very happy if there was random stuff to be found, things that could either help you immediately (a derelict with still active repair limpet or with a small quantity of fuel you can add to you tank) or things that you need to bring back to the bubble to enhance the performance of your warship. Just an example would be a derelict Guardian ship with a... circuit? you can ask an engineer to apply to you Gauss cannon and enhance its AX performance.

We already have this to some extent, and I actually don't like it. I beachcomb, meaning that I explore a few hundred lightyears from the Bubble, and I've found many undiscovered systems even this close. Yet every system has ship debris in space (USS), and if you drive around enough in SRV, you'll find wrecked ships and downed satellites and cargo and everything else. I get finding something like this in one out of every 10-20 systems, but EVERY system? I leave the Bubble to get away from humanity, yet our rubbish is everywhere. It's like going to an island in the Pacific and finding the beaches covered with trash. It's depressing!

On the other hand, you would think there'd be more remains of Guardian civilization (as you say, ships, etc.) in Guardian space. But going back to my initial point, spawning tons of stuff everywhere is not the answer. No Man's Sky does this, and I grew bored with NMS long before I grew bored with exploration in ED.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I like the new content.

Though I think exploration would benefit from bread crumb gameplay where a trail of clues lead you to things like the lost megaships, anomalies and very unusual surface features.

I also think that exploration would be much better if stellar dangers where more of a thing.

Giant O/B/WR stars should strip shields and then hull while cooking the ship. Anomalies could contain metal eating bacteria, or extremophiles eating radiation messing up your ship cooling.

Small BH should be dangerous from the tidal forces, causing hull and module damage. Exiting SC near a BH should be a moment of scrambling in pure terror (make it like exiting near a very, very high G planet....)

Flare stars should also a thing to watch for. Scooping a ref dwarf should be anything but relaxed.

 

[space voyager]

We already have this to some extent, and I actually don't like it. I beachcomb, meaning that I explore a few hundred lightyears from the Bubble, and I've found many undiscovered systems even this close. Yet every system has ship debris in space (USS), and if you drive around enough in SRV, you'll find wrecked ships and downed satellites and cargo and everything else. I get finding something like this in one out of every 10-20 systems, but EVERY system? I leave the Bubble to get away from humanity, yet our rubbish is everywhere. It's like going to an island in the Pacific and finding the beaches covered with trash. It's depressing!

On the other hand, you would think there'd be more remains of Guardian civilization (as you say, ships, etc.) in Guardian space. But going back to my initial point, spawning tons of stuff everywhere is not the answer. No Man's Sky does this, and I grew bored with NMS long before I grew bored with exploration in ED.

I agree, spawning too much is harmful to the excitement one should feel when finding something, but the things you write about are all more or less meaningless. They have no lasting effect. Sure, you'll get some credits through data caches and some mats, but nothing you can't find in the bubble much, much easier.

I'm all for hard to find though stuff like notable stellar phenomena are a bit too hard to find right now. Also, just as useless - a sight to take a screnshot at (first time only).

As I've already written, I want stuff with lasting effects, too. Not gamechangers, a cherry to put on top of the cake. Make it rare, sure! Also, make the proces of finding the stuff as interactive as possible, and at least potentially dangerous. I hate the fact that you can leave the bubble in an eggshell and only your own mistakes can punish you for it.

Just as an example; perhaps you could find a derelict ship on the planet but first fight your way through the automated defences, find a message with a landable body (parhaps save this for systems with high-G landables) in the same system and coordinates with a vague description of a great Guardian find the pilot wanted to return to before meeting his/her end, go there and find the site to be visited by a Thargoid party. Destroy those, too, deploy your SRV and reap the benefits of a 2% more efficient PP of your choosing. Sorry for the not-so-polished gameplay suggestion, I've taken a minute to come up with it. I'm sure we can come up with much better gameplay.

 

[Rustnsawdust]

Personally I'd be very happy if there was random stuff to be found

But there is random stuff to be found. And now we have better tools to find it.

Two problems with your suggestions.
1 How much stuff should there be? I'm with Old Duck - I don't want to find stuff on every planet, or every other planet, or even every 10th planet.
2 All of your suggestions seem to be combat-focused. Many (if not most) explorers are out there to get away from the endless combat.

I'd like to see more science. The new exploration mechanics are a good first step but we need more tools to interact with the things we find other than shooting them.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

This is almost certainly an issue created by the introduction of the FSS.

I just finished up another stripmining session of virgin systems, and because the entire experience is done through the fss, the immediate aftertaste of using the fss is of being full, but at the same time dissatisfied. Your mind has alot of capacity to wonder and notice that the gas giant you just discovered is.. actually... exactly like every other one. Biggest magic curtain fail in the history of gaming.

In the past it really wasn't like this.. it was setup so that once you made the decision, then the journey, only at the end did you receive all the rewards, so exploration being the "finale" of the journey to the body kept you well distracted from that fact.. the experience was just completely different. Instead of being dissatisfied at what you're finding... ahhh nevermind. We can all just remember the old days like with most things in elite that's been watered down or just pointlessly changed.

When you flew there, the experience was centered around YOU. When you popped the blob, there's nothing there for you, so you're making a claim on the content.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

The OP wishes to add more danger and excitement to explorition. There are issues here:

- Adding events which are unavoidable and simply provide random death, is probably not desirable. Eg. jump into a star and there's a 1 in 1000 chance of there being a Thargoid battlecruiser right there waiting for you at the arrival point. Boom, Thargoid god-guns bring instant death, no avoiding, no "gameplay" other than a cutscene then the rebuy screen. I don't think anyone wants that.

- Adding events which are unavoidable and simply provide random damage, is probably not desirable either, because if you get unlucky, you might get three such random events in a row - so it amounts to "random death", only slightly less probable.

- Adding events which are dangerous but avoidable would be pointless, because most explorers would simply avoid them. How many explorers right now bother checking out the "signal source" USSs that you still sometimes find within 2000 LYs of the Bubble? None - because they might contain a nasty surprise (pirates or whatnot). Now, perhaps if the risk/reward were tweaked such that interrupting your exploration plans to investigate a potentially risky anomaly might actually grant you some special reward not otherwise obtainable, there might be some benefit or use here - for example, a "rescue the princess" scenario where the princess offers to join your crew, for free, out of gratitude for being rescued.

- Adding random, unavoidable events which seem dangerous, but actually aren't, is perhaps the best that can be hoped for. It would tend to turn the galaxy into a giant theme park. Thargoid hyperdictions are perhaps a classic example of this. All scary fireworks, but not actually dangerous unless you've gone out of your way to make them dangerous.

A better example (imo) that's in the game already are the Thargoid hearts that drop when you defeat an Interceptor.

The Thargoid leaves behind a corrosive cloud, in the middle of which the heart can be found. If you want the heart, you'll have to either prepare your ship (lots of armour and/or Guardian HRPs with corrosive damage protection), or gun for it and hope you'll make it back to the station, or ignore it altogether but miss out on the item.

It's not random damage either as the player has complete agency and can weigh off the pros and cons of the various options at hand.

 

[marx]

An addition: the FSS's long (and frame-rate dependent) scan times when many surface POIs are present works actively against finding things. To date, nobody has found new Thargoid, Guardian or Human POIs outside the previously established areas, and players have already been conditioned not to wait out the long scan times, only to find out that it's geologicals (and biologicals) yet again. Because of that, even if there were something else, there's a good chance they'd miss it. (Sure, you can check the bodies again later, but you have to do the FSS for that yet again, because the system map doesn't list the POIs, as would be convenient.)

So basically, Frontier either has to spell out the search area through hints if they want something found, or they'll have to fix these issues of the FSS. Preferably both.

Failing that, there's only stuff that shows up on the navigation tab that could better be found, so spaceborne stuff like NSPs.

Mind you, some good stories and breadcrumbs could go a long way towards some good exploration gameplay, at least for those who'd like to go that route. However, the upcoming II, the Enclave, will begin with "find new sources of Barnacles by selling exploration data from anywhere", instead of in-game hints or Codex rumours, so it doesn't look like Frontier is interested in this right now. Maybe Phase 2 will be "we've shifted through all the data, and we think there might be barnacles somewhere in regions X, Y, Z, go find them" - we'll see.
Or maybe it will be the easy way of "here are the two nebulae where they can be found, and here's a new CG to harvest the barnacles".

Still, at the end of the day, hand-crafted stuff will most likely be found by the largest player groups, and that's that. As others have written in the thread, PG stuff can be far more enduring, and at times, surprising too. Plus once a long enough time has gone since anyone last found new hand-crafted stuff (the last were Aster trees in April, I believe?), most players will conclude there's nothing more to be found.

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

This is almost certainly an issue created by the introduction of the FSS.

I just finished up another stripmining session of virgin systems, and because the entire experience is done through the fss, the immediate aftertaste of using the fss is of being full, but at the same time dissatisfied. Your mind has alot of capacity to wonder and notice that the gas giant you just discovered is.. actually... exactly like every other one. Biggest magic curtain fail in the history of gaming.

In the past it really wasn't like this.. it was setup so that once you made the decision, then the journey, only at the end did you receive all the rewards, so exploration being the "finale" of the journey to the body kept you well distracted from that fact.. the experience was just completely different. Instead of being dissatisfied at what you're finding... ahhh nevermind. We can all just remember the old days like with most things in elite that's been watered down or just pointlessly changed.

When you flew there, the experience was centered around YOU. When you popped the blob, there's nothing there for you, so you're making a claim on the content.

But didn't you ADS guys used to see the thing right away on the system map anyway? What's the difference between seeing it there and seeing it in the FSS viewport?

I've never used the ADS, but I do understand where you ADS guys are coming from, because when I came across the first unexplored star I had seen, which was a far-flung secondary star in a binary star system, I flew to it instead of using FSS, and discovered once there that it had a bunch of planets too. One of my big beefs with the FSS is that it has killed situations like this. Before it, you'd find lots of guys names on systems, now, one guy has almost definitely got it all.

Point is, you can still fly to things now. How is this different from ADS?

 

[Witcher 7]

You're thinking with FDEV minds.
As I said at the beginning of my post, things should not be rare. I don't know why FDEV is hurting their own game so much with this damn "rare" phylosophy.

We should crowdfund a billboard (as they did for Hello Games) in front of Frontier offices with this simple equation, so they don't forget:

Rare Things = Rare Fun = Boring Game

I don't mind rare things except when they only exists thousands of ly away. For people like who has a PMF, I simply can't be away for weeks to travel to far far away systems just to take a selfie with these rare things.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I want more things to do with the research limpets, & short range composition scanner so one can collect samples from as much as possible, and have a reason to SRCS things more than once for the codex.

Have Scanning things with the SRCS generate a new data material category

I want there to be a demand for samples and data scan that is more than just CRs

Let me trade samples of Molluscs* and Asher trees*, and SRCS Scan data of L-Type Anomalies* at Material Traders for other materials.
Let me trade samples from P-Type & Q Type Anomalies* and SRCS Scan data of Peduncle Trees* to Tech brokers to unlock interesting modules
Let me hand in samples and SCRS scan data to the Science and Research Contact to help trigger a "Scientic breakthrough" state in factions that see increase production, demand for Scientist passengers and/or temporary supply of Tech Broker-esque/side grade modules

Let us have Exploration CGs where we have to collect samples and SRCS scan data


* Example only

This is exactly what I want to see in the game. Give us more reasons to go out there and explore these places. What we have now is a definite improvement, but the improvements shouldn't stop there. And some of these changes wouldn't be major either. Should pretty easy to implement with what is already in the game.