The PvP, ganking, open mode discussion - the problem is the game balance

Nickolai

N
The only reason we keep having this discussion is because the game is not balanced. Fix the balance, and the game will no longer be a PvP griefer vs. Solo mode proposition.

  • Griefing and ganking have practically no penalty (the police are weak, having notoriety doesn't actually do anything meaningful)
  • Even when NPC police are sent after gankers (which they are), the gankers just evade the interdiction (making it completely pointless)
  • High security systems are indistinguishable from low security - what's the point of high security then?
  • Gankers with notoriety can still land at any station ("anonymous protocols" is a joke). They should be confined to lower and lower security depending on the notoriety leve.
  • Engineered combat ships are overpowered compared to other types of ships, making engagements pointless
  • Running missions in open or solo has the same effect on the BGS, so there is no incentive to play in open
  • Powerplay is supposed to be the PvP feature, but it seems like the developers abandoned it

I've played a bit of star citizen recently. Hear me out. That game is still an alpha with tons of bugs and certainly not even close to complete or polished as ED. But those developers seem to be aware of ED's issues and are avoiding them. Most notably:
  • Combat ships are not grossly overpowered and their shields can be taken down by anyone with weapons who knows how to pilot a ship
  • The crime and punishment system actually puts you in jail for a set amount of time, and the only way to lessen your sentence is to go mining (yes, you read that right)
  • You can't pay space lawyers to delete your bounty.
  • Station guns will destroy any criminal's ship in a few shots.
  • Bounty alerts against criminal players are sent to all other players including location, encouraging lawful players to hunt down the criminals.
  • If you are a criminal and you get killed, destroyed or shot down, you lose the gear and cargo you have with you.

So in that game, yes you can be a ganker, but you won't get away with it for too long. Groups of lawful players are encouraged to hunt gankers co-op style, and they can do it without having to spend hours grinding out fully G5 combat ships. And forget about landing at most stations with criminal status (the equivalent of ED's notoriety).
 

rrobes

R
It's the way the game has evolved, has been discussed before many times and unlikely that conditions will change; can't see any sizeable investment by FD to overhaul the overhauls.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Nickolai said:
The only reason we keep having this discussion
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There are several reasons that the topic keeps coming up. One of them is that some players don't enjoy PvP and some players do - yet there's only one game mode with an unlimited population and it is PvP enabled. Another of the reasons that we keep having this discussion is that some players can't accept that other players don't need to play with them to affect the game - yet we all bought the game on that basis.
Nickolai said:
  • Running missions in open or solo has the same effect on the BGS, so there is no incentive to play in open
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By design - other players are optional (meaning that PvP is also entirely optional) in this game whereas every player experiences and affects the BGS.
Nickolai said:
  • Powerplay is supposed to be the PvP feature, but it seems like the developers abandoned it
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Surprising then that it was consciously implemented in all three game modes. It certainly offers the possibility of PvP for those who wish to engage in it - but it does not force any player to engage in PvP if they don't want to.
 
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Rebel Yell

Rebel Yell
Look, I agree with most of your points.

In particular:
  • Powerplay is supposed to be the PvP feature, but it seems like the developers abandoned it
And also adding the fact that even if you fly a shieldless T9, you can evade & escape an NPC pirate (or enemy, if you have a powerplay bounty).


Now, let's wait for the solo/PG forum brigade to destroy your dream (as most of PvPers have left this forum).
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
deja_vu.jpg
 

Northpin

Northpin
Nickolai said:
Powerplay is supposed to be the PvP feature, but it seems like the developers abandoned it
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Nope

Nothing is supposed to be a PVP feature in a game where other players are completely optional - not to mention PVP alone.

Nickolai said:
Running missions in open or solo has the same effect on the BGS, so there is no incentive to play in open
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Ofc, the game is designed like that.
BGS is designed like that - as an asynchronous and indirect competitive play
 

Ingram

I
Brrokk said:
I'm so tired of this I've decided to sue for peace. I offer the following deal:

We get Open-only Powerplay in the present Open mode, and also a new Open-PvE mode.

Any takers?
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Why not we just put a click box there before pressing open mode?
1636973420329.png

Anyone clicked PvP then will be instanced with the types of their own, whatever they do there will not increase PvE notoriety. They compete, gank each other and enjoy the high quality combat skill up and teamwork.

Anyone did not click PvP but fire at other players will be instantly teleported back to this page. When they kill any player or teleported back over 3 times, that will result 1 point of PvE notoriety while its cooldown could be like 1 month per point. PvE notoriety will put some funny restrictions in all modes (like higher chances interdicted by NPC, shield / armor / speed degradation at notoriety x 20%, all fees increased at x100^notoriety). These players will be marked as CG target, their position and ingame mode will be displayed in galaxy map across all modes and even in PvE open, they can be killed by clean players : )
 
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Ultra Fluffy

Ultra Fluffy
My 2p worth:
  1. There are people who want to do PvP and nothing else. then there are those (like me) who would like to avoid it like the plague.
  2. For those that do not wish to get involved in PvP the reasons are as follows:
  • There are plenty of other careers to follow than pew pew.
  • The game is unbalanced so that if you do not have the top grade weapons and shields you don't stand a chance. You either need to be totally committed to PvP or not at all.
  • You cannot compensate for lack of top rank weapons with better skills. You don't last long enough to develop those skills and then you are shooting a brick wall with a pea shooter.
  • Those with big weapons or those going for higher weapons need to pick on the little guys because they need the mats that they will drop when defeated. There are not enough people in open to be choosey or lenient.
  • Most PvP games are pure PvP. Elite is not so you have the option to get involved or not.
I see people complaining that people are staying in solo and not providing them with cannon fodder. I would like to counter that argument. Why not join us in mobius and cooperate with us for an objectives rather than killing everything in sight. if you must kill something then make it a Thargoid or an NPC. If you want PvP with more participants then play a PvP only game. if people don't want to play PvP then Elite provides that facility. If you want people to get involved in PvP then you need to make the progress such that they do not meet grade 5 weaponry before they have reached grade 2. i.e. make the instancing based on the level that they want to join at. So when you get good enough you progress up to the next league. A bit like the football leagues. You would not want to create a new team from scratch only to be always pitted against the top flight teams. you might want to give it a go once in a while, but not every day. likewise you would not want the top flight teams progressing because they avoided the other top flight teams and only picked matches against the amateurs.
 
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