The REAL difference between 'regular' and Imperial slaves...
- Thread starter Virgil Kyle
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As I was just saying, though, this system really is built to be abused, particularly by those with power and influence. Having been on the wrong end of many broken promises, I've discovered a 'guarantee' is subjective based on who is making it, and is often far from an actual guarantee...
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You and me both, friend
See, this is what I mean by supposed 'guarantees' and promises - By no means are they a sure thing, even with entities as large and supposedly noble and benevolent as governments. I would say be particularly weary of promises and guarantees made by your government...Especially when I can buy them at the station that offers the mission. They don't even get the discomfort of travelling 7ly in a barrel. Wait, they're not real people?
Just because two things are called the same thing doesn't mean they're equal. For example, a Lamborgini Aventador is very different from a Toyota Prius, but they're both called cars. According to your logic, they would be the same exact things, because cars are cars, which doesn't make sense at all. Different things are different.
Also, you need to ask yourself why something is immoral before claiming it is. You see, slavery is not considered immoral just because it's slavery. It is immoral because most slaves are born into slavery, and never had a chance to escape it. Slaves are usually treated very badly, and live a harsh life, without being able to change anything to it. But imperial slaves are not born as slaves, they are very well treated, and becoming a slave is always a result of their own actions. In a way, you could even call them "working inmates". Personally, if I was to be put in jail, i'd prefer paying my debt to society by working my ass off while living a better life than any prisoner who's rotting in a cell.
The only thing that truly defines your rights, is the law. If the law say you don't have the right to freedom, then you just don't. Just like someone who's in prison, you can loose your right to freedom if you're not bright enough to use it right!
Glory to the empire!!
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So rich and powerful people are above the law and can abuse the system? Shocking.
Fyi I'd be willing to bet there's a number of alliance and federation aristocrats who have imperial slaves as "assistants" or "butlers". The whole elite universe seems corrupt.
That's why I play pirate or bounty hunter/assassin. there's no black or white, only Grey, darker Grey and green (or whatever color credits are)
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Of course different things are different. But both forms of slavery are still wrong, whether one be slightly more so or slightly less so. Whether it is a supposedly 'higher' and 'more noble' Imperial form of slavery, or just 'regular' 'old-school' slavery, they are both slavery, and they are both wrong. The rest is semantics.
Did you read my original post? Slavery is immoral PRECISELY because it IS slavery, because it directly impinges on a prime, immutable right, one that NO ONE has the right to deny you, not even yourself. That most slaves are born into it, that they are treated harshly, etc., makes it all that much worse, and gives further evidence of how evil slavery is, but it is irrelevant to the argument I am making, in the end. If they are truly 'working inmates', this is a different story. I still bristle at the thought of a 'debtor's prison', but it is different. But they are called Imperial slaves in the ED universe, and I would imagine there's a good reason for that. I would love to know why, personally.
Whose law? If it is another man's, I really hope you don't actually believe this IRL, because it really is disturbingly wrong on so many levels. Tell me, who are the masterful arbiters of righteousness who decides what my basic rights are, hmmm? Is it you? Who? We are born with certain rights, they are inherent in our humanity, in our condition as human beings, and thus no man can trample on them righteously. If you hold to the idea that man's basic rights are legislated by his fellow man, than you better hope you're the one making them!
Going to prison for committing a legitimate crime is different. But there is a huge difference between picking someone's pocket or breaking their bones, and going bankrupt due to poor financial decisions. I know I'm no financial genius, so the thought of a few honest financial mistakes landing me in servile bondage is pretty terrifying.
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There's also convict labour, which is a further variation on indentured servitude. The way that the Australian penal colonies operated were in effect a state run slave economy with most convicts serving a fixed term (typically seven years) and being assigned to masters. There was no market - all convicts remained controlled by the government - but otherwise it fits the bill. Quite a few of them were debtors, too.
There is a MAJOR distinction between this kind of society and one where the labour is considered sub-human property. Classical (and I get the impression Elite Imperial) slavery was usually more like the former, though it usually comes down to race. A Roman wouldn't consider a Greek slave anything other than a human being. Nubians might be another matter.
There is a MAJOR distinction between this kind of society and one where the labour is considered sub-human property. Classical (and I get the impression Elite Imperial) slavery was usually more like the former, though it usually comes down to race. A Roman wouldn't consider a Greek slave anything other than a human being. Nubians might be another matter.
True that. That's why you have to find yourself a nice independent democratic system, preferably off on the fringes of human space, away from the machinations of the major powers. A system whose government truly respects and honors your rights as a human being. Or do as I'm trying to do, and reform the Federation from the inside
Well said - Knowing our history is not only important to knowing where we've been, but where we're going as well
Your point about different kinds of slavery and servitude are well taken, but this is the problem with the whole institution, in the end - it is inherently denigrating towards the human soul, for both slave AND master. That Roman shouldn't have the right to choose which slaves he treats as full-fledged people, period, regardless of race, creed, gender, etc. It's simply not his right, one way or the other. Thinking of others as 'betters' or 'lessers', and thus deserving of varying levels of personhood or non-personhood is a natural outflow of slavery, and a prime example of why it is so wrong on a fundamental level.
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I'm guessing that this is the only game forum on which this kind of philosophical discussion is taking place
In the end we all look to "Slaves" and "Imperial Slaves" as commodities Commanders, this is until they introduce a free slaves system other than the missions. And how many of you doing the little Princess stories and freeing the Slaves through the missions !?!? They pay nothing ( and for a smug like myself pay is pay no matter what ) but actually help reputation a LOT.
I usually free Slaves if I find them floating in space ( I refuse to smuggle Slaves... ) by generous use of laser on the canisters.
"Finally Free!" they echoed unison. They were actually right.
I usually free Slaves if I find them floating in space ( I refuse to smuggle Slaves... ) by generous use of laser on the canisters.
"Finally Free!" they echoed unison. They were actually right.
(I love this game so much.)
I personally find low-paid employees in the federation WORSE than imperial slavery, a corporation boss couldn't care less for a father who can't pay enough food cartridges for his children, and if the boss doesn't need the father anymore, he'll fire him, the whole family will become homeless and probably DIE of starvation.
An Imperial slave owner however have the responsibility to feed his slaves, and though a slave would receive corporal punishment for not working hard enough, he knows that (unlike the federation father) his misery will be over one day, and he can live a better life afterwards.
As they say, imperial slavery is a safe net, I'd rather be a slave myself than starve to death!
Down with the feds! Long live the Empire!
I personally find low-paid employees in the federation WORSE than imperial slavery, a corporation boss couldn't care less for a father who can't pay enough food cartridges for his children, and if the boss doesn't need the father anymore, he'll fire him, the whole family will become homeless and probably DIE of starvation.
An Imperial slave owner however have the responsibility to feed his slaves, and though a slave would receive corporal punishment for not working hard enough, he knows that (unlike the federation father) his misery will be over one day, and he can live a better life afterwards.
As they say, imperial slavery is a safe net, I'd rather be a slave myself than starve to death!
Down with the feds! Long live the Empire!
(I was about to reply with a link to UN declaration of human rights quoting certain people's posts here concerning rights and laws... then I noticed they ended their posts with 'GLORY TO EMPIRE' and pressed cancel)
About the quality of comforts for imperial slaves... if I've understood, there's no law but rather a code of honor to take care of your subjects and such?
About the quality of comforts for imperial slaves... if I've understood, there's no law but rather a code of honor to take care of your subjects and such?
There are a ton of people in the world (in non-vanilla groups) who would strongly disagree with you. There is a huge difference between a person who submits willingly and someone who is forced into it. A slave who submits willingly is still in control of themselves and is putting their lives in the responsibility of someone else. They haven't lost their liberty as you put it, because they CHOSE to give it to someone else. Compare that to a person who is either sold or blackmailed into slavery where their liberty is forcibly taken from them. I don't know much about the law of this game but as long as the imperial slaves are either criminals or people who willingly become slaves, I'm ok with it.
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You defeat your own argument there. Imperial slavery is VOLUNTARY. Or are you saying you want to take away the rights of every Imperial citizen to choose to serve for a term to abolish their debt and regain honor?