The real problem with Elite Dangerous is the Players

[Keloot]

Yes, this is yet another thread in a very long list of threads about PvP, Ganking, Player Wishes and FDev's implementation of the game.

I'm not going to define any terms here. I'm not going to name names or call names or even attribute what I think of other players or what they should, would or could be or do. I'm going to talk about the REAL problem, which is the group of players themselves as a whole, which are more or less represented by the mere subset of the players and former players who participate on these forums.

Why do I say the players are the problem?

It is a simple fact that the players are people, and, as people, we all want things our way. Its human nature to see what we don't like or want and want to change it. Its who we are.

Now on to my main point.

Every person, and I do mean EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US (all 8 Billion), in the entire world wants something different. No matter to what degree we agree on things we all want something different. I want something different than Joe, Joe wants something different than Amy, Amy wants something different than Susan, and, lo and behold, Susan wants something different than I do.

Not a single one of us experiences the world in exactly the same way as any other one of us. And none of us wants exactly the same thigns as any other one of us...

We will all NEVER agree on everything. This is what I have gleaned from the 6 or 10 PvP/Ganker threads I've read, and participated in, over the last 14 months that I've been on these forums. Many think they have the perfect solution, some think they have imperfect solutions, all believe that other's solutions are not ideal.

That leaves us with the game we have, to play in a way that we enjoy by our own choices and no amount of arguing about how to change the game, or if its even possible to change it or if FDev ever will or even want to change it will make it the game that everyone wants.

It has been said many times here that the ED has been set up to cater to everyone in some aspect and because of that it is not the game than any one person or groups really wants it to be.

It, the game, is what it is...take it or leave it, or argue about it until you're blue in the face, angry and upset. But know this, it WILL NEVER EVER completely be the game that any of us wants or desires it to be. It will always be what it is.

</rant>

they would need to add a flag system type pvp to prevent abuse from players. then they could start implementing open only stuff for bgs etc..

but as it stands the only way to play in open is to ask in system chat who are the gankers and block them . so they dont instance with you

 

[Sakashiro]

but as it stands the only way to play in open is to ask in system chat who are the gankers and block them

Or build a solid ship.

 

[Rubbernuke]

but as it stands the only way to play in open is to ask in system chat who are the gankers and block them . so they dont instance with you

Like they are going to be truthful. My ganking friend would fly about in an Asp called "I Love Exploration" fitted like an explorer except for a couple of light weapons.

 

[Bigmaec]

but as it stands the only way to play in open is to ask in system chat who are the gankers and block them . so they dont instance with you

Totally the only way to play in open.

I have a nice Anaconda for sale at Hutton Orbital, interested?

 

[nemolomen]

they would need to add a flag system type pvp to prevent abuse from players. then they could start implementing open only stuff for bgs etc..

but as it stands the only way to play in open is to ask in system chat who are the gankers and block them . so they dont instance with you

How many players per play session, on average, do you see in Open?

 

[ethelred]

the need to justify why something is pleasurable is a very odd trend, but rears its head in so many discussions.

I dunno man, seems Socrates started off this whole analysis thing and that was a long time ago. A quick Google reveals that Film Studies as a discipline appeared within a few decades of the first films, and English Literature (as a subject) has been taught at school in most of the 20th Century, if not before. There's no reason to think Games would be any different? Seems the trend is more to analyse, than not analyse?

but as it stands the only way to play in open is to ask in system chat who are the gankers and block them . so they dont instance with you

I mean this is just categorically wrong. It's A way to play, not the only way. Yes that's being pedantic but it's wrong to make such general statements.

 

[Sakashiro]

I mean this is just categorically wrong. It's A way to play, not the only way. Yes that's being pedantic but it's wrong to make such general statements.

Let's face it, the problem that those people have with open is the fact that they can't fly something like a shieldless T-9 through high traffic systems without suffering the consequences.

They just can't accept that the game resembles reality, at least to the extent that transporting valuable goods requires some degree of protection, like it would in the real world. They think that all the shield boosters, hull and module reinforcements they see for sale in the outfitting section are meant for someone else. They want a fantasy world without risk, without danger, without challenges. And they feel entitled to it, even in open, so they block anyone who doesn't go along with it.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Let's face it, the problem that those people have with open is the fact that they can't fly something like a shieldless T-9 through high traffic systems without suffering the consequences.

They just can't accept that the game resembles reality, at least to the extent that transporting valuable goods requires some degree of protection, like it would in the real world. They think that all the shield boosters, hull and module reinforcements they see for sale in the outfitting section are meant for someone else. They want a fantasy world without risk, without danger, without challenges. And they feel entitled to it, even in open, so they block anyone who doesn't go along with it.

TL: DR
Let me tell a story, about how this game is to be played and why blocking could be sometimes the only solution to safe the magic of this game:

It is the 28th April 3308, Na Zha system, Rose Ring Station. The 4 Cmdrs of BVCO listen carefully to Admiral Maxton Price on the comm monitor, who explaines in detail the planned federal AX Operation in Sosong. The BVCO Avalanche is prepared, all Pilots are busy transfering their equipment on the carrier. Next morning the administration secretary hands over the written op-order for the emergency support operation ANGEL CARE in Sosong. The Cmdrs reading in detail what task is choosen for them. 2 of them are responsible for the Relief supply to and from the Avalanche. The other 2 will be involved in the evac of Dzanibekov station. At 10 o'clock Standard System time the Avalanche jumps from Na Zha to Sosong. We had a Parkinson Position near the main Star. One Minute after arrival a 2 pilot wing of the federal navy reports in for duty. They are ordered to provide close protection for the carrier in case of a thargoid attack. The BVCO director flies to the Amphion Battlecruiser for a final mission briefing with Admiral Price for all Civil contractors. Multiple federal Taskforces are patroulling the system, some skirmishes with thargoid forces have been reported, but the federal forces have not yet managed to confront the aliens to a major battle. Admiral price explains the military security measures for the supply and evac operations. The destroyer Ninjati is providing cover near the Star for supply flights in and out the system. One heavy Fighter Carrier, the Lucky Cowboy, is operating near Dzanibekov Station to protect the evacuation. Back on the Avalanche all BVCO staff is briefed in the ready room by the returned director. He himself is taking part in the station evac. 10 minutes later 2 Evac Type-6 ships start from the Avalanche. Both ships approach the burning stationin close formation. The transport and safety corridor provided by the federal navy seems to work. No Thargoid attacks on the approach. The Lucky Cowboy sends a comm message: All clear. Thargoids are succesfully kept away from the station and the rescue ship. We can continue as planned... 6 hours later. The BVCO Cmdrs are tired and exhausted. The civilian tragedy on Board the station is almost unbearable. Children and their mothers were designated to be evacuated first, but the lack of coordinating security personal and the chaos onboard the station has led to unbelievavle panic, violence and uncoordinated boarding at the evac Checkpoints. How many people were evacuated is hard to say, as the BVCO Cmdrs had no time to count. Even the number of flights between the station and the evac ship is unknown. Message from the Lucky Cowboy...the detachment of Millers Trans Inc has arrived to take over the evac operation for the next 6 hours. We are dsimissed. The director signals a thump up to the other cmdr. We are done, back to the Avalanche for some Rest before our next shift starts. As the two Type-6 start from the evac ship for the short flight back to the Avalanche, the Lucky Cowboy reports still safe Routes. No Thargoids near the evac operation area. 2 Eagles are assigned to us for escort back to the carrier.

Brake

On the flight back to our carrier i was interdicted by a ganker who destroys my evac Type 6 in some seconds. I just let him do this, as the Type 6 is unarmed, light shields etc... the rebuy also laughable. BUT: this incident fits not in my narrative, my game. There is no place in this Story for this. Blocked him, as he does not belong to my World.

Yes the game is flawed, as of course their are no federal escorts, no fighter carrier lucky Cowboy, and no mechanics for thargoid attacks in this case. Does not matter for me. I fill the gaps by myself. And as sad as it might be... this ganker has choosen to not be part of my wonderfull Elite World. I must block him. Its the only way to save my playstyle.

 

[Rubbernuke]

TL: DR
Let me tell a story, about how this game is to be played and why blocking could be sometimes the only solution to safe the magic of this game:

It is the 28th April 3308, Na Zha system, Rose Ring Station. The 4 Cmdrs of BVCO listen carefully to Admiral Maxton Price on the comm monitor, who explaines in detail the planned federal AX Operation in Sosong. The BVCO Avalanche is prepared, all Pilots are busy transfering their equipment on the carrier. Next morning the administration secretary hands over the written op-order for the emergency support operation ANGEL CARE in Sosong. The Cmdrs reading in detail what task is choosen for them. 2 of them are responsible for the Relief supply to and from the Avalanche. The other 2 will be involved in the evac of Dzanibekov station. At 10 o'clock Standard System time the Avalanche jumps from Na Zha to Sosong. We had a Parkinson Position near the main Star. One Minute after arrival a 2 pilot wing of the federal navy reports in for duty. They are ordered to provide close protection for the carrier in case of a thargoid attack. The BVCO director flies to the Amphion Battlecruiser for a final mission briefing with Admiral Price for all Civil contractors. Multiple federal Taskforces are patroulling the system, some skirmishes with thargoid forces have been reported, but the federal forces have not yet managed to confront the aliens to a major battle. Admiral price explains the military security measures for the supply and evac operations. The destroyer Ninjati is providing cover near the Star for supply flights in and out the system. One heavy Fighter Carrier, the Lucky Cowboy, is operating near Dzanibekov Station to protect the evacuation. Back on the Avalanche all BVCO staff is briefed in the ready room by the returned director. He himself is taking part in the station evac. 10 minutes later 2 Evac Type-6 ships start from the Avalanche. Both ships approach the burning stationin close formation. The transport and safety corridor provided by the federal navy seems to work. No Thargoid attacks on the approach. The Lucky Cowboy sends a comm message: All clear. Thargoids are succesfully kept away from the station and the rescue ship. We can continue as planned... 6 hours later. The BVCO Cmdrs are tired and exhausted. The civilian tragedy on Board the station is almost unbearable. Children and their mothers were designated to be evacuated first, but the lack of coordinating security personal and the chaos onboard the station has led to unbelievavle panic, violence and uncoordinated boarding at the evac Checkpoints. How many people were evacuated is hard to say, as the BVCO Cmdrs had no time to count. Even the number of flights between the station and the evac ship is unknown. Message from the Lucky Cowboy...the detachment of Millers Trans Inc has arrived to take over the evac operation for the next 6 hours. We are dsimissed. The director signals a thump up to the other cmdr. We are done, back to the Avalanche for some Rest before our next shift starts. As the two Type-6 start from the evac ship for the short flight back to the Avalanche, the Lucky Cowboy reports still safe Routes. No Thargoids near the evac operation area. 2 Eagles are assigned to us for escort back to the carrier.

Brake

On the flight back to our carrier i was interdicted by a ganker who destroys my evac Type 6 in some seconds. I just let him do this, as the Type 6 is unarmed, light shields etc... the rebuy also laughable. BUT: this incident fits not in my narrative, my game. There is no place in this Story for this. Blocked him, as he does not belong to my World.

Yes the game is flawed, as of course their are no federal escorts, no fighter carrier lucky Cowboy, and no mechanics for thargoid attacks in this case. Does not matter for me. I fill the gaps by myself. And as sad as it might be... this ganker has choosen to not be part of my wonderfull Elite World. I must block him. Its the only way to save my playstyle.

Sounds like you need PG really, and not open.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I dunno man, seems Socrates started off this whole analysis thing and that was a long time ago.

Yes that's being pedantic

I agree.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Sounds like you need PG really, and not open.

This could be a solution, no doubt. But then i would have missed a lot of other cmdrs doing the evac and the cool cmdr that tried to coordinate the enter and exit of the station from his conda parked near the mailslot.

 

[Jack Winter]

TL: DR
Let me tell a story, about how this game is to be played and why blocking could be sometimes the only solution to safe the magic of this game:

Sounds amazing, and it's sad that this isn't in the game! But IMO, you are setting off on the completely wrong foot when you write "about how this game is to be played". This isn't a single player game so you'd really have to take other commander's wishes into account if you play in open..

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Sounds amazing, and it's sad that this isn't in the game! But IMO, you are setting off on the completely wrong foot when you write "about how this game is to be played". This isn't a single player game so you'd really have to take other commander's wishes into account if you play in open..

Yeah. The sentence in question is not meant to be as absolute as it may sound of course. But your statement about how you have to take other commanders wishes into account must be a joke, right? My game, i paid to play it my way and i really... i dont actively disrupt anyones gamesplay on purpose.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This could be a solution, no doubt. But then i would have missed a lot of other cmdrs doing the evac and the cool cmdr that tried to coordinate the enter and exit of the station from his conda parked near the mailslot.

The opposite view is that you do have people who support the Thargoids.

 

[Rat Catcher]

i dont actively disrupt anyones gamesplay on purpose.

So your blocklist, like mine, is empty?

 

[Jack Winter]

Yeah. The sentence in question is not meant to be as absolute as it may sound of course. But your statement about how you have to take other commanders wishes into account must be a joke, right? My game, i paid to play it my way and i really... i dont actively disrupt anyones gamesplay on purpose.

Yes, I think it might have mostly been the phrasing of that which caught my mind. But still in open you'll just have to take other commanders into account. Who knows maybe this will change in the future, but looking back at the past, the modes, the HC threads, etc, it seem unlikely that something will change. I suppose the alternative is blocking, but IMO it's not a very good solution due to the instancing problems it might produce for everyone.

IMO, the best solution would be to play in PG or solo...

 

[TobiasFuzz]

The opposite view is that you do have people who support the Thargoids.

No doubt. If someone fights against humans in a AX CZ the possibility is there that he is roleplaying a goid friend...perhaps. Hard to say if he is indeed or just a plain ganker. But i would not deny the general possibilitiy. To attack an evac ship... i dont know. What is the biggest issue: There was a major Fleet Operation in Sosong, at least in the narrativ of GalNet etc. Seems extremely unlikely that some goid friend manages to operate freely in the system, and then attacks evac ships instead of AX ships. Yes, it is the games fault or the devs fault, that this "major fleet operation " was not represented due to any ingame mechanics and only existed in the narrativ.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

So your blocklist, like mine, is empty?

Currently it is.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Yes, I think it might have mostly been the phrasing of that which caught my mind. But still in open you'll just have to take other commander's into account. Who knows maybe this will change in the future, but looking back at the past, the modes, the HC threads, etc, it seem unlikely that something will change. I suppose the alternative is blocking, but IMO it's not a very good solution due to the instancing problems it might produce for everyone.

IMO, the best solution would be to play in PG or solo...

So, you see. That is the problem. I played after my fashion, that is normally not aggressiv or disrupting to other players. Indeed i think (my opinion) that this is the by FDev intended way to play this RP Space-game Epos. And i should say "Sorry", " Yeah, ganker players have more rights then me to play completely undisturbed", "so good this ganker gameplay, i have to support it so i dont block anyone"... i hope you see thats a little strange.

 

[Rat Catcher]

So, you see. That is the problem. I played after my fashion, that is normally not aggressiv or disrupting to other players.

I see nothing amiss with that.

Indeed i think (my opinion) that this is the by FDev intended way to play this RP Space-game Epos.

It does describe a dystopian galaxy, so infers violence being very common.
But... There is gameplay for all to be had, which would be much more sensible to have both PvE only as well as PvP possible modes. But, apparently, that is too difficult to engineer...

And i should say "Sorry", " Yeah, ganker players have more rights then me to play completely undisturbed"

They, I am sure, believe this to be so.

"so good this ganker gameplay, i have to support it so i dont block anyone"

With block being quite so 'powerful', some consideration to unintentional side effects has to be given. Perhaps, one day, Frontier might sort out the cascade effect of blocking.

... i hope you see thats a little strange.

It is very strange indeed, but that is not the player's fault, is it?