This comment is going to touch upon a couple of interconnected issues, which have come into sharp, and unfortunate focus recently around Elite Dangerous. Hopefully we can have a mature discussion and response to it.
The Right Too, And Value of Dissent
With new patches on the way, here on the forums the Hype Train has begun to pick up steam again, and with it the rise in posts from players in love with the game still who are annoyed, even infuriated with criticism or scepticism. There seems to be the belief that anyone not supporting the game is somehow harming it, or attacking you personally for dissenting.
But I use the term "in love" not as an insult however but to draw out an illustration. Think about actual love; everyone has their own particular preferences; You cannot make someone believe they're attracted to someone else by persuasion, argument or dictatorship. You can perhaps silence them, so they can't express dissenting opinions to yours, but that doesn't make them change their mind, it just makes them angry they can't speak their mind; and would you feel happy if someone told you that you couldn't express love in your own way? Or even just "I don't want to do it like that?"
Pick a preference and now imagine that you're bombarded with examples of the opposite, whilst you aren't allowed to express your own. It should become obvious that a healthy community is one that not just allows free expression but also understand moderation in not attempting to drown out other voices with it's own. We are not all of one mind, and society should not attempt to be dominated by one.
Likewise someone in a healthy frame of mind should not feel threatened by the loves, or even dislikes of other people. After all, even the "straightest" person in the world is still reliant upon someone being attracted to the opposite of your desires in order to want to be with you. That doesn't make them inferior or alien; celebrate that difference, where ever it's found.
Here on the ED forums, just like so many gaming forums however, there seems to be a few people who can't tolerate the idea that people aren't attracted to what they enjoy personally playing. But so what? As long as they don't take away what you enjoy, why does it matter? Don't you want them to be happy? If so, then let them speak out about what they'd rather play with too.
That's constructive dissent; but critical dissent is valuable in it's own way too. How, exactly, do you say in a nice way that something is wrong, or even evil and just shouldn't be done...? Take for instance the recent story from Saudi Arabia for an extreme but effective illustration. How exactly do you say "journalists shouldn't be tortured and killed" in a comfortable way to those torturing and killing? "Journalists should be wined and dined" is both ridiculous and irrelevant... the only response is to say "That's wrong, and DON'T DO THAT."
Don't mistake the bluntness of the point with the bluntness of the person however; just as when your mother smacked your hand for trying to shove it into a plug socket it doesn't make your mother evil. Just sometimes the correct response isn't comfortable and shouldn't be comfortable. So it is with criticism even of a computer game; if people genuinely find something is harmful to their enjoyment of the game, they're going to be blunt. But you don't have to feel negatively towards the person. Focus on the issue. Try to understand if it's a genuine issue that can be fixed or just stopped, instead of attempting to turn it into yet another battleground against a real person.
Because...
Harrasment And Elite - An Example Of How Defending Something Easily Becomes Abusing Others
I'm going to be a little general here, although I do know the full story and it should start appearing in media and a few medium level youtubers videos soon. And it doesn't actually start with Elite, but it's also come here now, and deeply informs why I'm so personally sick of the assumption that you have to support something to be considered "Good".
It actually starts from Kickstarting another project, "Shroud of the Avatar". At the time for me, it was either backing Elite, or SotA, but Elite seemed to be so much further ahead in it's design I didn't feel it would need my support to get there. And full credit to Frontier, I don't feel like I've really missed out on not backing at the time, there's nothing except actually naming a system that I really wish I had today.
But its a decision I deeply regret to this date, because SotA not only was a dishonest kickstarter, and built a game that was based around a Mobile F2P income model, and real money trading of the Add On Store items between players instead of the story driven spiritual successor to the Ultima series we were promised... But that the combination of Crowd Funding cult like belief such a model tends to engender, and the real greed involved in it's operation led to an excessively toxic response to any criticism of the project. Check out the Reddits, the Steam forums, even the official forums for just how unhinged, or just hostile to any dissent the community has become.
And because I criticized the development, it's lead to a 2 year campaign of hacking, account shut downs, threats of violence and sexual assault, and just all round insane obsession with trying to harm me because I'm somehow evil for expressing dissent. For daring to somehow upset someone with a completely irrational, toxic form of "love" for a product. I won't say more on that wider experience, and you really don't want to wade into that sludge anyway, but what does that have to do with Elite?
Well, I knew my stalker was coming here when, (link removed) (read the comments in the archived copy of the article): I'd gone exploring to Beagle Point before then, and a friend let me know that someone was trying to destroy his NPC faction in game, United Imperial Dairies. By the time I'd got back, they'd lost a largely irrelevant system (Aiga) and someone was pushing against their home one, Cowini. I started doing the odd mission to keep them in control, and it became obvious that if ever I reclaimed any influence, the effort against them escalated... one weekend I decided to see how much time I could put in, and 8 hours of missioning later, someone put in even more work the next day to try and remove it all again. That's the kind of irrational sickness I've unfortunately had to try and deal with over the last 2 years in multiple other ways, and now someone was doing it in Elite too.
Ok, it could just be normal gameplay, and conflict is indeed part of the game; but I've spoken to the customer support team of Frontier since and they've confirmed that there's basically just two people doing any missions there. And one of them is me. Elsewhere across the internet where this bizarre campaign of stalking and hatred was being pursued, he'd tried to drop hints as to another player guild in game who was supposedly helping him, but no, it was indeed still just one other person at that point. They won't name the account, quite reasonably, but I'd bet anything it's my stalker yet again. No one else would likely even care who controlled an obscure backwater system.
And all because I'd criticised a completely different game.
Now I'm not saying anyone on the forums is this kind of unhinged... but I often see uncomfortable echoes of the same inability to accept even the existence of contradictory minds to your own in some of the claims that critics with their evil critical comments here are just not welcome here; that it's somehow an incredible moral evil that you puncture their bubble of "love"; and it makes me feel very, very sick indeed knowing the darkest side of such irrational devotion.
A Call For A Community Response Then:
On a personal level, I hope the decent players here will consider my public call for good souls to help counter-act the attempts to cause drama in Elite Dangerous too, and take part in supporting my friends faction. After posting it, unfortunately however the attacks on the faction just got worse still. Some friends also cross-posted that to the Elite Reddit; a few people wondered there if it was an attack on animal lovers, and just to clarify we've tend to play it as a satire of corporations and their lack of concern for everything including animals, but most of us actually are veggie/vegan or just animal rights believers. And just a heads up, if you see a [removed] on Reddit, it's my stalker trying to gaslight people as me I'm afraid... he's tried that twice now already. But back on point, it's my hope on the specifics of UID, we can show you can defeat a tiny number of unhealthily obsessive individuals with a genuine wider spread attempt to minimize griefing.
And on the forums, and in the wider sense, I hope people will at least try and understand that people who criticise the game aren't doing it as "haters" themselves; even some of the most risque language is just coming from a different perspective, rather than one that wants to harm you or take away what you have. And the thing is, if Frontier listens to them, rather than you "lovers", there's a chance they'll get more players back, or even new players, by offering something different. After all, Frontier already has you "lovers" and your support. Your voice has been already been heard and welcomed. But like with the example of who you physically love, if outsiders want inside they have to campaign, shout, even protest... and we should be welcoming that, not complaining about it.
And there will be ALOT of complaining about the coming Beta. I know I'm likely to be myself, because those exploration changes look horrible to me. And it already makes me sick to my stomach to think of where even trying to express that could lead. So I'm asking, nay begging the community here to try and have the maturity to deal with the inevitable dissatisfaction with a more constructive outlook. It's not an insult to you if people complain; critics are an artists best friend in fact, because they tell you where you can improve, rather than telling you that you shouldn't try any further.
I want Elite to do better, and have more players: Don't you? So when people say what will get them inside the door, or is keeping them outside, why not listen to them and see if they can be made to feel at home here too?
The Right Too, And Value of Dissent
With new patches on the way, here on the forums the Hype Train has begun to pick up steam again, and with it the rise in posts from players in love with the game still who are annoyed, even infuriated with criticism or scepticism. There seems to be the belief that anyone not supporting the game is somehow harming it, or attacking you personally for dissenting.
But I use the term "in love" not as an insult however but to draw out an illustration. Think about actual love; everyone has their own particular preferences; You cannot make someone believe they're attracted to someone else by persuasion, argument or dictatorship. You can perhaps silence them, so they can't express dissenting opinions to yours, but that doesn't make them change their mind, it just makes them angry they can't speak their mind; and would you feel happy if someone told you that you couldn't express love in your own way? Or even just "I don't want to do it like that?"
Pick a preference and now imagine that you're bombarded with examples of the opposite, whilst you aren't allowed to express your own. It should become obvious that a healthy community is one that not just allows free expression but also understand moderation in not attempting to drown out other voices with it's own. We are not all of one mind, and society should not attempt to be dominated by one.
Likewise someone in a healthy frame of mind should not feel threatened by the loves, or even dislikes of other people. After all, even the "straightest" person in the world is still reliant upon someone being attracted to the opposite of your desires in order to want to be with you. That doesn't make them inferior or alien; celebrate that difference, where ever it's found.
Here on the ED forums, just like so many gaming forums however, there seems to be a few people who can't tolerate the idea that people aren't attracted to what they enjoy personally playing. But so what? As long as they don't take away what you enjoy, why does it matter? Don't you want them to be happy? If so, then let them speak out about what they'd rather play with too.
That's constructive dissent; but critical dissent is valuable in it's own way too. How, exactly, do you say in a nice way that something is wrong, or even evil and just shouldn't be done...? Take for instance the recent story from Saudi Arabia for an extreme but effective illustration. How exactly do you say "journalists shouldn't be tortured and killed" in a comfortable way to those torturing and killing? "Journalists should be wined and dined" is both ridiculous and irrelevant... the only response is to say "That's wrong, and DON'T DO THAT."
Don't mistake the bluntness of the point with the bluntness of the person however; just as when your mother smacked your hand for trying to shove it into a plug socket it doesn't make your mother evil. Just sometimes the correct response isn't comfortable and shouldn't be comfortable. So it is with criticism even of a computer game; if people genuinely find something is harmful to their enjoyment of the game, they're going to be blunt. But you don't have to feel negatively towards the person. Focus on the issue. Try to understand if it's a genuine issue that can be fixed or just stopped, instead of attempting to turn it into yet another battleground against a real person.
Because...
Harrasment And Elite - An Example Of How Defending Something Easily Becomes Abusing Others
I'm going to be a little general here, although I do know the full story and it should start appearing in media and a few medium level youtubers videos soon. And it doesn't actually start with Elite, but it's also come here now, and deeply informs why I'm so personally sick of the assumption that you have to support something to be considered "Good".
It actually starts from Kickstarting another project, "Shroud of the Avatar". At the time for me, it was either backing Elite, or SotA, but Elite seemed to be so much further ahead in it's design I didn't feel it would need my support to get there. And full credit to Frontier, I don't feel like I've really missed out on not backing at the time, there's nothing except actually naming a system that I really wish I had today.
But its a decision I deeply regret to this date, because SotA not only was a dishonest kickstarter, and built a game that was based around a Mobile F2P income model, and real money trading of the Add On Store items between players instead of the story driven spiritual successor to the Ultima series we were promised... But that the combination of Crowd Funding cult like belief such a model tends to engender, and the real greed involved in it's operation led to an excessively toxic response to any criticism of the project. Check out the Reddits, the Steam forums, even the official forums for just how unhinged, or just hostile to any dissent the community has become.
And because I criticized the development, it's lead to a 2 year campaign of hacking, account shut downs, threats of violence and sexual assault, and just all round insane obsession with trying to harm me because I'm somehow evil for expressing dissent. For daring to somehow upset someone with a completely irrational, toxic form of "love" for a product. I won't say more on that wider experience, and you really don't want to wade into that sludge anyway, but what does that have to do with Elite?
Well, I knew my stalker was coming here when, (link removed) (read the comments in the archived copy of the article): I'd gone exploring to Beagle Point before then, and a friend let me know that someone was trying to destroy his NPC faction in game, United Imperial Dairies. By the time I'd got back, they'd lost a largely irrelevant system (Aiga) and someone was pushing against their home one, Cowini. I started doing the odd mission to keep them in control, and it became obvious that if ever I reclaimed any influence, the effort against them escalated... one weekend I decided to see how much time I could put in, and 8 hours of missioning later, someone put in even more work the next day to try and remove it all again. That's the kind of irrational sickness I've unfortunately had to try and deal with over the last 2 years in multiple other ways, and now someone was doing it in Elite too.
Ok, it could just be normal gameplay, and conflict is indeed part of the game; but I've spoken to the customer support team of Frontier since and they've confirmed that there's basically just two people doing any missions there. And one of them is me. Elsewhere across the internet where this bizarre campaign of stalking and hatred was being pursued, he'd tried to drop hints as to another player guild in game who was supposedly helping him, but no, it was indeed still just one other person at that point. They won't name the account, quite reasonably, but I'd bet anything it's my stalker yet again. No one else would likely even care who controlled an obscure backwater system.
And all because I'd criticised a completely different game.
Now I'm not saying anyone on the forums is this kind of unhinged... but I often see uncomfortable echoes of the same inability to accept even the existence of contradictory minds to your own in some of the claims that critics with their evil critical comments here are just not welcome here; that it's somehow an incredible moral evil that you puncture their bubble of "love"; and it makes me feel very, very sick indeed knowing the darkest side of such irrational devotion.
A Call For A Community Response Then:
On a personal level, I hope the decent players here will consider my public call for good souls to help counter-act the attempts to cause drama in Elite Dangerous too, and take part in supporting my friends faction. After posting it, unfortunately however the attacks on the faction just got worse still. Some friends also cross-posted that to the Elite Reddit; a few people wondered there if it was an attack on animal lovers, and just to clarify we've tend to play it as a satire of corporations and their lack of concern for everything including animals, but most of us actually are veggie/vegan or just animal rights believers. And just a heads up, if you see a [removed] on Reddit, it's my stalker trying to gaslight people as me I'm afraid... he's tried that twice now already. But back on point, it's my hope on the specifics of UID, we can show you can defeat a tiny number of unhealthily obsessive individuals with a genuine wider spread attempt to minimize griefing.
And on the forums, and in the wider sense, I hope people will at least try and understand that people who criticise the game aren't doing it as "haters" themselves; even some of the most risque language is just coming from a different perspective, rather than one that wants to harm you or take away what you have. And the thing is, if Frontier listens to them, rather than you "lovers", there's a chance they'll get more players back, or even new players, by offering something different. After all, Frontier already has you "lovers" and your support. Your voice has been already been heard and welcomed. But like with the example of who you physically love, if outsiders want inside they have to campaign, shout, even protest... and we should be welcoming that, not complaining about it.
And there will be ALOT of complaining about the coming Beta. I know I'm likely to be myself, because those exploration changes look horrible to me. And it already makes me sick to my stomach to think of where even trying to express that could lead. So I'm asking, nay begging the community here to try and have the maturity to deal with the inevitable dissatisfaction with a more constructive outlook. It's not an insult to you if people complain; critics are an artists best friend in fact, because they tell you where you can improve, rather than telling you that you shouldn't try any further.
I want Elite to do better, and have more players: Don't you? So when people say what will get them inside the door, or is keeping them outside, why not listen to them and see if they can be made to feel at home here too?
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