General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Synkreto]

Dr. Maria van Kerkhoeve, when asked about serological studies and prevalence in different countries, during WHO media briefing on Monday, Mai 11th.2020:



In essence, WHO has said this for weeks now . Weeks . It is SO simple . It is very clear .

I really, REALLY wonder how people all around the world can still not GET this . How entire Countries still ignore this . How so many people can get involved and engaged in all kinds of other issues SURROUNDING the Pandemic....but simply fail to LOOK the Pandemic STRAIGHT into the eyes, and fight it .

question at (43:25)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v39Re7kzOpQ


p.s.: It is also really adviseable to listen to Dr. Ryan's words, answering to the same question .

Dr. Ryan's words, same briefing, answering to the same question just after Dr. v. Kerkhoeve :

And again, just reiterating at herd immunity, and again, a term sometimes taken from veterinary epidemiology, where people are concerned in animal husbandry with the overall health of the herd and an individual animal in THAT sense doesn't matter from the perspective of the brutal economics of that/those decision making .

Humans are not herds .

And as such, the CONECPT of herd immunity is generally reserved for calculating how many people would need to be VACCINATED in a population in order to generate that same effect .

So I think we need to be really carefull when we use terms in this way around natural infections of humans, because we can reach, it can lead to a very brutal arithmetic which does not put people, and life and suffering, at the center of that equation .

This could not have been said any better . Pushing the "heard immunity" strategy/narrative...does not put people, life and suffering at the center of the equation .

People who allowed themselves to be drawn into the crowd pushing the Strategy/Idea of "herd immunity", need to wake up and realize WHAT exactly it is they are supporting .

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Dr. Maria van Kerkhoeve, when asked about serological studies and prevalence in different countries, during WHO media briefing on Monday, Mai 11th.2020:



In essence, WHO has said this for weeks now . Weeks . It is SO simple . It is very clear .

I really, REALLY wonder how people all around the world can still not GET this . How entire Countries still ignore this . How so many people can get involved and engaged in all kinds of other issues SURROUNDING the Pandemic....but simply fail to LOOK the Pandemic STRAIGHT into the eyes, and fight it .

question at (43:25)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v39Re7kzOpQ


p.s.: It is also really adviseable to listen to Dr. Ryan's words, answering to the same question .

Wow, preliminary results show max. 15% people who have had covid then have antibodies?!?!
Herd immunity may be tricky then!

edit: ah, ok my misunderstanding. Thanks Synkreto

 

[Synkreto]

Wow, preliminary results show max. 15% people who have had covid then have antibodies?!?!
Herd immunity may be tricky then!

I think you misunderstood . She said a very low proportion of people that have been tested ( in these studies ) have evidence of antibodies as measured by these sereological tests.

And as has been said in this briefing : ONE of the mass of sero-epidemiological studies has been peer reviewed (!), it is hard for WHO to critically assess most of the Studies for well known reasons . So nvmnd. many of the tests used pick up false positives, and it is still not known which antibodies actually need to be measured to be able to assess immunity from CoV -2 , etcetc...or that it is still not known how long immunity will last . I saw one study on SARS ( CoV -1) immunity that found it is basically gone after year 3, same study says immunity from the 4 common human Coronas is pretty short lived .

And people still so easily dismiss ALL the possible problems coming with SARS - CoV - 2 infection even if it does not lead to death . These imho will proove the REAL problem for populations/economies to deal with...

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

 

[Han_Zen]

Very just.

In this regard, I find that the Russians are efficient for screening, because for the past few days, they have been detecting more than 10 000 cases of infections every day.

They have to date 232 243 cases of contamination (more than the United Kingdom).

Russia now displays more than 5.8 million tests to date.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Russia are doing a good job with testing. Unfortunately they were very slow to get started , so the virus has already spread much more than needed.
They also struggle with reporting, it seems. Russian scientists estimates that about 75% of Covid-19 deaths, go unreported.
Estimates were based on a total mortality increase that was far higher than reported Covid deaths.

The central government (Putin) are now pushing all responsibility for restrictions, to the regional leaders. Russia is huge and conditions are very different from region to region, so this makes sense in that regard. The problem is that the Russian economy is in a horrible state and regional leaders have little to spend. Many restrictions are therefor being lifted today.

The situation in Russia doesn't look good for the long run.

 

[Synkreto]

Treatment With Hydroxychloroquine or Azithromycin and In-Hospital Mortality in Patients With COVID-19

This study examines associations between use of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both and in-hospital mortality, ECG changes, and cardiac arrest among patients with COVID-19 hospitalized in the metropolitan New York area in March 2020.

jamanetwork.com

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Medcram update 69 talks about using N-acetyl Cysteine as a treatment.
Commonly known as NAC, it's widely available in drugstores.

Spoiler: Pic

Perhaps you might have seen it yourself?

This molecule has a wide variety of uses. I use it daily as a supplement, for the anti ageing part, and treat lots of cases with it.

It has immunological effects, anti-clotting effects and liver detoxification effects, in brief. Also anti-tumor properties and anti pneumonia properties.
Long history of use, and generally considered completely safe unlike HOCQ which has known issues. Widely given to children in syrups.

See the details here:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr_6w-WPr0w


Some research in cancer:

Decongestant revealed as 'highly effective' in starving cancer cells

Cancer researchers seeking non-toxic alternatives to harmful chemotherapy are reporting a highly significant result for a humble cold remedy.

www.sciencedaily.com

Other substances under review include the old anti-ulcer drug Pepcid (Famotidine).

Info presented out of academic interest. This is not a suggestion that you ought to take this or any other substance.
As usual your own doctor would have the best position to do that with you there.

 

[Synkreto]

Medcram update 69 talks about using N-acetyl Cysteine as a treatment.
Commonly known as NAC, it's widely available in drugstores.

Spoiler: Pic

Perhaps you might have seen it yourself?

This molecule has a wide variety of uses. I use it daily as a supplement, for the anti ageing part, and treat lots of cases with it.

It has immunological effects, anti-clotting effects and liver detoxification effects, in brief. Also anti-tumor properties and anti pneumonia properties.
Long history of use, and generally considered completely safe unlike HOCQ which has known issues. Widely given to children in syrups.

See the details here:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr_6w-WPr0w


Some research in cancer:

Decongestant revealed as 'highly effective' in starving cancer cells

Cancer researchers seeking non-toxic alternatives to harmful chemotherapy are reporting a highly significant result for a humble cold remedy.

www.sciencedaily.com

Other substances under review include the old anti-ulcer drug Pepcid (Famotidine).

Info presented out of academic interest. This is not a suggestion that you ought to take this or any other substance.
As usual your own doctor would have the best position to do that with you there.

Wow. I did not even know this exists . Will find out whether this is obtainable in Germany . Could it be it is known as Cystus Incanus ?

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Wow. I did not even know this exists . Will find out whether this is obtainable in Germany . Could it be it is known as Cystus Incanus ?

Its available everywhere, as far as I know. The chemical name should be the same.
_


Here's some graphs from the little islands around where I am (barely these days) living

The isolative geography and small size makes epidemic control easier than in larger places. Sharp vertical increases are cruise ship dumps.
We need to get rid of that industry. Compare to New Zealand and Australia, larger islands, with also good curves. Our lockdowns were implemented early and hard, crushing the rise of the curve before it had time to take off.

By contrast, the First World has done very poorly. Europe is correcting and simultaneously reopening, a dangerous combination.

"approximately 90 percent of all American covid-19 deaths can now be attributed to the administration’s delay between March 2 and 16."

2 medical experts estimate 90% of coronavirus deaths in the US could have been avoided if everyone started social distancing on March 2

Health experts say social-distancing measures have an exponential effect on coronavirus deaths, and relaxing measures too soon could be devastating.

www.businessinsider.com

Everybody posting here is well aware of this. The critical time to act is before the curve turns that corner.

But nevertheless, the US curve is tipping in the right direction now.
Still, the cost of the delay is ratcheting up relentlessly to the regrettable point where a clock has been established in Times Square NYC. This didn't have to happen. Nor did the unnecessary deaths and suffering.

 

[ZeroAi]

No, the simple fact is that one phrase has been locked on by spin-doctors.

It is really hard to swallow that people are SO easily convinced about WHO misleading the world...

I all hear is blah blah blah... troll troll troll

Obviously my original statement is still true - there was not universal agreement of how contagious COVID-19 even in January.

As proof, I cited the now famous W.H.O. statement and tweet below, which again proves what I said: The W.H.O. was still saying (tweeting, publishing, stating, relaying, quoting... and other modern synonyms for the word "saying") there was "no clear evidence" that the coronavirus could spread between people:

Jan. 9 WHO statement: “Chinese authorities have made a preliminary determination of a novel (or new) coronavirus, identified in a hospitalized person with pneumonia in Wuhan. … Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses with some causing less-severe disease, such as the common cold, and others more severe disease such as MERS and SARS. Some transmit easily from person to person, while others do not. According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people. … More comprehensive information is required to understand the current status and epidemiology of the outbreak, and the clinical picture.”

On a side note - I'm not sure why the W.H.O. put their own credibility on the line by repeating what the Chinese told them - hopefully they'll be much more careful in the future.

Put simply, misinformation can kill. They should know that, and know to take what China says with a grain of salt (especially when they had conflicting information from other sources at that time.)

As long as nations are so codependent on each other, the ability to police what they do within their own jurisdiction is going to be extremely limited, especially for nations with a lot of political and economic clout.

Great points, but to be clear I wasn't proposing we tell other nations what to do (although sometimes we may need to,) but I do think we should require certain things of nations who want to interact with us in travel, trade, security, etc.

Put another way, when your on our court/pitch, you play by our rules. If you don't like that, you don't need to bother coming over.

If I were to visit England, France, or Spain, I would 100% expect that I'd need to follow the rules of the local government, including how long I could stay and what I was allowed to do.

And if I'm coming from a country that doesn't reliably share health data, I wouldn't be too surprised if I had to jump through some hoops to actually be let in.

The good news is the USA and most of Europe work very closely together, and it's pretty easy to find out what each country requires of each other.

In fact, in most of our countries if someone tried to suppress news of an outbreak, our press would have a field day with that story, and someone would likely end up in jail.

But today I think the results are still out on how China handled the situation - hopefully by the end of the year we'll know if China is working with us, or if visitors from China will need to continue to be quarantined for 14 days before being allowed into the USA.

o7

 

[Synkreto]

I all hear is blah blah blah... troll troll troll

Obviously my original statement is still true - there was not universal agreement of how contagious COVID-19 even in January.

As proof, I cited the now famous W.H.O. statement and tweet below, which again proves what I said: The W.H.O. was still saying (tweeting, publishing, stating, relaying, quoting... and other modern synonyms for the word "saying") there was "no clear evidence" that the coronavirus could spread between people:

Jan. 9 WHO statement: “Chinese authorities have made a preliminary determination of a novel (or new) coronavirus, identified in a hospitalized person with pneumonia in Wuhan. … Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses with some causing less-severe disease, such as the common cold, and others more severe disease such as MERS and SARS. Some transmit easily from person to person, while others do not. According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people. … More comprehensive information is required to understand the current status and epidemiology of the outbreak, and the clinical picture.”

On a side note - I'm not sure why the W.H.O. put their own credibility on the line by repeating what the Chinese told them - hopefully they'll be much more careful in the future.

Put simply, misinformation can kill. They should know that, and know to take what China says with a grain of salt (especially when they had conflicting information from other sources at that time.)



Great points, but to be clear I wasn't proposing we tell other nations what to do (although sometimes we may need to,) but I do think we should require certain things of nations who want to interact with us in travel, trade, security, etc.

Put another way, when your on our court/pitch, you play by our rules. If you don't like that, you don't need to bother coming over.

If I were to visit England, France, or Spain, I would 100% expect that I'd need to follow the rules of the local government, including how long I could stay and what I was allowed to do.

And if I'm coming from a country that doesn't reliably share health data, I wouldn't be too surprised if I had to jump through some hoops to actually be let in.

The good news is the USA and most of Europe work very closely together, and it's pretty easy to find out what each country requires of each other.

In fact, in most of our countries if someone tried to suppress news of an outbreak, our press would have a field day with that story, and someone would likely end up in jail.

But today I think the results are still out on how China handled the situation - hopefully by the end of the year we'll know if China is working with us, or if visitors from China will need to continue to be quarantined for 14 days before being allowed into the USA.

o7

Yeah . You obviosuly have no clue about how the WHO works, what they have done, what rules and regulations they are bound to acc. IHR . That is ok . After all, some government/administration of a "First World" Country also has repeatedly shown lately they do have zero clue on these things, so you are in good company .

I am not going to waste time with this, apart from the following ( REAL protips ! ) :

IF and WHEN the WHO does receive a report from one of the member nations, they do relate/communicate this AS THEY RECEIVE IT . This is per the rules, and has several reasons .

All and ANY information/guidance/advice WHO did put out, following the report from China 31st Dec. 2019, was given and prepared under the ASSUMPTION human to human transmission would be occuring/was possible . After all, these people have some experience .

Good Luck finding the guilty party, and have fun throwing around clueless and baseless posts and accusations in the meantime .

 

[Synkreto]

COVID-19 and Postinfection Immunity

This Viewpoint describes what is currently known about the immune response to coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), highlights important gaps in knowledge, and identifies opportunities for future research.

jamanetwork.com

 

[Oldviboy]

--Put simply, misinformation can kill.



--They should know that, and know to take what China says with a grain of salt.



--Great points, but to be clear I wasn't proposing we tell other nations what to do (although sometimes we may need to,)


-- or if visitors from China will need to continue to be quarantined for 14 days before being allowed into the USA.

o7

--Like to drink bleach?

--and Trump too

--drink bleach again? save the economy ? go outside? take the beaches? the streets? NO,thanks.

--to this day in, I would feel safer letting a Chinese enter my city than an American, man, you are the country with the most infections in the world right now.


Naah, just a little trolling

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

@ZeroAi , yes I do recall that W.H.O. release in January, and how my neck hurt from the double take whiplash.
An investigation into the performance of that organization would be a good idea.

It was unbelievable that no human to human transmission was plausible when the Chinese Red Army is sealing a major city with bulldozers and rocks, and they are wearing spacesuits in the streets. That got covered about a week or so later? IIRC.

We cannot afford for this confusion to EVER happen again. We are all alive by dumb luck. What if this virus killed like MERS? This is not a joking matter.

 

[Synkreto]

@ZeroAi , yes I do recall that W.H.O. release in January, and how my neck hurt from the double take whiplash.
An investigation into the performance of that organization would be a good idea.

It was unbelievable that no human to human transmission was plausible when the Chinese Red Army is sealing a major city with bulldozers and rocks, and they are wearing spacesuits in the streets. That got covered about a week or so later? IIRC.

We cannot afford for this confusion to EVER happen again. We are all alive by dumb luck. What if this virus killed like MERS? This is not a joking matter.

Dr. Tedros, in the WHO press briefing of May 6th, 2020 :

Just one minute; I think it has been covered properly but I wanted to clarify one aspect. The rule we have in WHO and other UN agencies is when a member state reports we post the member state report as is. What we did on January 14th on Twitter is we posted China's report as is. That doesn't mean that we agree or we disagree; we're just reporting what came.

According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people.
( this is from the WHO statement on Jan9th, at https://www.who.int/china/news/deta...ing-cluster-of-pneumonia-cases-in-wuhan-china )

Dr. van Kerkhoeve, same brieifing :

From the beginning - I'm the MERS specialist, the focal point at the organisation; Mike led the SARS response and so from the start whenever you hear of a cluster of atypical pneumonia you think respiratory and you think human-to-human transmission. It's not if, it's just what is the extent of human to-human transmission that may be happening.

We immediately posed questions to our colleagues in China to ask for more information, as we do with all clusters or all alerts or all signals that we pick up through the electronic monitoring systems. From the beginning we assumed that there would be human-to-human transmission and at our first reporting to our member states and contact points on 5th January - it's in our EIS which is Event Information System - we included detailed information about the cluster itself and also about protecting against acute respiratory infections.

We also published on that day our first disease outbreak news. From there we worked with our international partners to develop guidance, which is around how you find cases, how you protect healthcare workers, how you treat patients. All of those guidance materials were guidance materials that we adapted from our MERS guidance materials, which included information about how to protect for human-to-human transmission because these viruses are transmitted by respiratory droplets and contact.

Link to transcript of briefing of May 6th :

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcripts/who-audio-trans-6may.pdf?sfvrsn=c61f7751_2

And again, an AAR on WHOs performance, under supervision of the memberstates, WILL come . It is standard procedure for them . Not even dependent on whether someone asks for it, or it is deemed necessary . They just do it regularily, to see where/how they can improve .

Information is meaningless . Context is everything .

edit: corrected mistake - date of briefing ;

 

[Oldviboy]

Dr. Tedros, in the WHO press briefing of May 8th, 2020 :

According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people.
( this is from the WHO statement on Jan9th, at https://www.who.int/china/news/deta...ing-cluster-of-pneumonia-cases-in-wuhan-china )

Dr. van Kerkhoeve, same brieifing :






Link to transcript of briefing of May 8th :

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcripts/who-audio-trans-6may.pdf?sfvrsn=c61f7751_2

And again, an AAR on WHOs performance, under supervision of the memberstates, WILL come . It is standard procedure for them . Not even dependent on whether someone asks for it, or it is deemed necessary . They just do it regularily, to see where/how they can improve .

Information is meaningless . Context is everything .

today, a Spanish opposition politician (José Ortega Smith, a fascist) was urgently admitted for the appearance of thrombi in his legs and lungs.
The guy was infected in March, the disease passed and he had been recovered for almost a month.
One more proof that this is something serious.

I must say that the opposition members did not believe in the virus from the beginning, then they complained about the measures of confinement, and now they are calling demonstrations against the government blaming them for the deaths, and why they did not take action before, although sometimes they keep complaining about the measures and want to go outside, they don't understand each other.

This same behavior is happening in several countries , but what has that kind of people in mind?

 

[Synkreto]

today, a Spanish opposition politician (José Ortega Smith, a fascist) was urgently admitted for the appearance of thrombi in his legs and lungs.
The guy was infected in March, the disease passed and he had been recovered for almost a month.
One more proof that this is something serious.

I must say that the opposition members did not believe in the virus from the beginning, then they complained about the measures of confinement, and now they are calling demonstrations against the government blaming them for the deaths, and why they did not take action before, although sometimes they keep complaining about the measures and want to go outside, they don't understand each other.

This same behavior is happening in several countries , but who has that kind of people in mind?

What you describe is imho a major take away of the Pandemic so far : the sheer quantity and spread of unbeliveable distortion (edit : and cognitive dissonance ! ) people/administrations/governments/parties/media demonstrate . Coupled with the widespread incapability of understanding provided information correctly, by research, putting it into context, validating sources, etc .

In Germany, last weekend, we had 10s of thousands of people on the streets demonstrating against the government . People ( still ) claim the whole thing is overblown, think it is no worse than the flu, are angry about the ( successfull ! ) containment measures, use the success of the measures as reason to critisize Government and Institutions ( like RKI ).

People are openly calling for armed resistance...against the forced global immunization by vaccine driven by the Bill Gates foundation as a cover up to insert an RFID chip into all of us as a measure/tool of control (!?!) . Does not matter how often you tell them a) there is no vaccine b) we do not know WHEN a vaccine will come c) the government has decided against forced vaccination so far re SARS - CoV -2 d) no, Bill Gates has not bought our governement, AND the RKI, AND the WHO, AND Prof. Drosten e) he also has not bought every other government in the world.

This after a weeks long campaign driven by fringe media and self appointed specialists ( many of whom have been sidelined for years because of their sloppy research/science ) and extreme political groups of whatever side of the spectrum to discredit the VERY people and Institute that have/has steered us through the Pandemic pretty successfully so far . Statements have been used out of context, or simply falsified, data has been brutally misinterpreted ( no matter how often it was clarified ), baseless claims of disinformation, corruption...plus the never ending conspiracy theories hinged on a lot of easily debunked nonsense...loads of people and media have spent hours after hours after hours battling this, on social media, TV, radio interviews, press briefings, you name it . Still: 10s of 1000s of people on the Streets XD .

It really is unbeliveable . Never would I have thought there are so many nutcases in the country I live in .

This thing blows over the heads of SO many people, and sadly, the very same people seem to be SO easily manipulated...amongst other things, it can be frightening really .

 

[metatheurgist]

This is what happens when it's more important for schools to produce fry cooks and worker bees than people that can analyse and assimilate information.

 

[6xes]

whats causing the 7000% increase in purchasing Plaquenil in France??
Do they know something Trump doesnt? LOL

 

[6xes]

the Dangers of Plaquenil from 2o11

 

[6xes]

a highlighted Q link
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexle...prescriptions-explode-in-france/#7284c4c0180f