General / Off-Topic The safest place

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Sorry I'm late. 14 hours post 2nd shot.

I had my second shot today at roughly 0930. Many fewer people this time. Total time spent, including the 15 minute observation period was just under a half hour. USN medic very efficient. Paperwork being handled well.

14 days to full protection. (y)
Get as much sleep and vitamin rich food as possible and amplify it 💪

My neighbourhood Italian pizza place is gone. Coffee shop next door- gone.
Cake shop- gone.
It's restaurant apocalypse, with vacancies everywhere.

Made Adam Ragusea's veg soup- stupidly delicious. Ate 2 bowls. Maybe we're better off with giant farm vegetables and a pot of water. 🥘
 
Right . There is this discussion about "Do vaccines ( any of them ) protect against infection (with SARS-COV-2 ), or do they protect against the disease (COVID19) ?" .

Any takers?

Vaccine efficacy is measured in terms of disease prevention, not protection from infection, probably because the former makes trials easier to conduct and is ultimately what's relevant. That said, vaccination will drastically reduce the likelihood of infection and transmission.
 
Vaccine efficacy is measured in terms of disease prevention, not protection from infection, probably because the former makes trials easier to conduct and is ultimately what's relevant. That said, vaccination will drastically reduce the likelihood of infection and transmission.

What defintion of "infection" are we working with re SARS-CoV-2 ?
 
The kind one cannot get because one's acquired immunity to a pathogen prevents it from replicating sufficiently post exposure for one to become a carrier and thus contribute to disease transmission.

German "Infection prevention disease law" (IfSG, InfektionsSchutzGesetz) defines "infection" as "acquisition of a pathogen and subsequent development/replication of the pathogen in the human organism" .

If that would not be happening, noone would need any vaccine, or treatment, at all ?
 
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So... does what we eat actually matter?

If you got the vaccine and had the runs as a result, you'll know the hard way that this virus affects intestines. If you got the actual virus, the effects might be worse.
It is now clear that the intestinal tract is likely to be a target for COVID-19 infection. Patients may experience diarrhea and vomiting during infection (4)

A working theory is that the gut gets hit, then it gets leaky, and allows bacterial endotoxins to get into the bloodstream. That helps switch on the cytokine storm.

The 2 main camps of keto vs vegans have predictably gone to war immediately as the pandemic started. If there's ONE thing they agree on it is that a "western" style diet high in sugars and fats and animal protein but low in fibre and vegetables is a bad option. But why? Is it because of the effect on us humans? Or is it on the gut microbiome?

I want to steer clear of controversy and just offer up stuff that clearly works. What KIND of fat consumed matters- a lot.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091208132526.htm Rats given lard to eat lost immunity. OK, but we're not rats, we won't be eating mostly lard and this study didn't look at viruses. Pffft. Is there anything actually useful, in humans??

Omega 3 and omega 6 fats get processed by the same enzymes. 3 = good, 6 = bad. 6 leads to cytokines.
Stuff the enzymes with omega 3's( cops) and theoretically we won't get a powerful cytokine storm. Can't carry criminals if the enzyme taxi's full of cops.

Does that actually work?

https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-021-02795-5
Omega-3 supplementation improved the levels of several parameters of respiratory and renal function in critically ill patients with COVID-19.
You can supplement with a fish oil or a flaxseed oil source of Omega 3, preload your enzymes, and likely have a better outcome. *Also, cut back on sources of omega 6 fats. Study used one capsule per day. 14 days. Saved people. Looks like it works?

Changing the fat load affects what germs we grow in the gut. Better germs = less endotoxins. Less endotoxins = less cytokines.
Obese people might be dying because of what's growing in their gut, secondary to what kind of food they habitually ate. Speculatively:
...shifting from a diet high in saturated fats to one with monounsaturated fats will reduce the numbers of those bacteria that produce the most inflammatory endotoxin molecules and thereby reduce the severity of the inflammatory response to a COVID-19 infection in vulnerable individuals,

However definitive proof of this is somewhat lacking. Low-fat vegans should theoretically do better, but this isn't proved in any data I can find. Keto proponents point to studies on influenza, which is helped by ketosis. It's murky stuff. Maybe there's potential benefits both ways, depending on the kind of fats, and the kind of germs in question, rather than the amount of fat you eat or avoid. Both camps advocate eating lots of non-starchy vegetables, and fruits from trees not cans.
 
just got my first shot of pfizer today. not at all thrilled but had to do my part, i guess.

so far so good. i've rubbed my phone against my shoulder and there doesn't seem to be any interferences. i'll let you know if i develop new appendices on places we're not supposed to have appendices, RELSPI might be interested.
 
German "Infection prevention disease law" (IfSG, InfektionsSchutzGesetz) defines "infection" as "acquisition of a pathogen and subsequent development/replication of the pathogen in the human organism" .

That's essentially the same definition, yes.

If that would not be happening, noone would need any vaccine, or treatment, at all ?

That's what immunity is.

If everyone were immune, then COVID-19 wouldn't exist, because no one would become infected by SARS-CoV-2.

The vaccine, or even infection, provides varying degrees of protection, for an as of yet indeterminate amount of time. That protection probably ranges from a modest increase in resistance to outright functional immunity.
 
just got my first shot of pfizer today. not at all thrilled but had to do my part, i guess.

so far so good. i've rubbed my phone against my shoulder and there doesn't seem to be any interferences. i'll let you know if i develop new appendices on places we're not supposed to have appendices, RELSPI might be interested.
People in germany reported major graphics updates, increased bandwidth, and generally enhanced performance . Some were complaining about not being able to switch off the ads though .
 
People in germany reported major graphics updates, increased bandwidth, and generally enhanced performance . Some were complaining about not being able to switch off the ads though .
Which they never had happen before, getting a vaccine?

All of the above things happen, when I walk from the bottom of my garden, into my house. This must be because my neighbours, have had their vaccines. I mean, this is the only possible explanation, correct?
 
Field hospitals, as predicted:
ICUs are at over 70% capacity now. HDUs are >90% full. Better than expected, on paper, but are we just moving the trouble out of the hospitals?

Health Minister claims we can get herd immunity in 6 months; of course there has to be vaccine supply for that. Just over 0.1% population is double dosed so far. Looks rather optimistic to me.

The extra beds(both step down and field) all have dedicated oxygen, so that is where it went.
 
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Only tangentially related to Coronaviruses. Involves biochemistry.

Remember cyanidin-3-glycoside and Apigenin from before?
CD38 inhibitor substances that raise NAD+ levels and ought to help reduce the disease? Ok, here's some new info that looks at a related compound for a related condition: Getting rid of senescent cells. One of the things they do is make more CD38.

They also give us heart disease, cancer, cataracts,arthritis, kidney failure, grey hair and wrinkles.

Of specific interest:
This reduces lung fibrosis. Might be useful in anybody with Covid damaged lungs.


Summarizing:
A naturally occurring thing called GSE is chemically similar to compounds like quercetin and fisetin found in apples and strawberries. Both of those compounds kill senescent cells( good) so did the GSE work too?

We evaluated the potential of GSE as a senolytic agent with alternative methods. Cell viability assay showed that GSE induced significant death of
senescent cells starting from the concentration of 0.75 μg/ml, in contrast to their proliferating counterparts (Fig. 2c). When GSE concentration was enhanced to
7.50 μg/ml, the percentage of surviving senescent cells declined to approximately 10%.
Wow, it killed 90% of the senescent cells. That's better than an engineered drug.

What does that do to the live organisms? Does it kill other stuff too??

Among individual compounds found in GSE, procyanidin C1 (PCC1) warrants special attention as it induces DNA damage, causes cell cycle arrest and increases expression of checkpoint kinases
While that sounds terrible, remember the point is to get cells to die off. Senescent cells cannot do that on their own. It sounds toxic though.
554px-Cyanidin.svg.png

To experimentally expand and establish PCC1 efficacy across cell lineages, we treated human fetal lung fibroblasts (WI38), human umbilical vein
endothelial cells (HUVECs) and human MSCs with PCC1, and found that senescent cells of these lineages exhibited similar susceptibility, which were
selectively killed by PCC1
, while their non-senescent counterparts sustained viability
So... it only kills the ones we want? ( LUNG fibrobasts- left alone, stellar.)
This is too good to believe. It should reverse a load of diseases.
Next you'll hear how it cures cancer.

No, really.
...animals were monitored for tumor growth, with bulky disease considered arising once the tumor burden was prominent (size ≥ 2000 mm3) an approach employed for certain situations 14, 38. Mice receiving MIT/PCC1 combinatorial treatment showed the most prolonged median survival, gaining a minimally 48.1% longer survival as compared with the group treated by MIT only
So yes, it works if you use regular chemotherapy alongside it. Why? Because the regular chemo makes a big pile of senescent cells as a side effect, and the GSE substance kills those off. That rubs out the ageing effect of the chemo.

What does it do to live animals?
They wholebody irradiated mice to induce ageing, and then gave them the treatment.

We then assessed the impact of preclinical treatments on the physical parameters of mice. As expected, WBI significantly compromised the exercise
capacity and muscle strength as measured by treadmill and grip strength assays in the vehicle group (Extended Data Fig. 8i,j). In a sharp contrast, PCC1
administration provided substantial benefits by markedly recovering these capacities. More importantly, PCC1 treatment showed a prominent tendency to
increase the survival rate

Ok, but that's artificial ageing. It surely wouldn't work in natural ageing?

Results from physical test showed that PCC1 ameliorated physical dysfunction, by enhancing maximal walking speed, hanging endurance, grip strength, treadmill endurance, daily activity and beam balance performance of animals

They got stronger and fitter- but living longer- that would be impossible....?

Notably, mice receiving bi-weekly administration of PCC1 starting at 24-27 months of age (equivalent to age 75-90 years in humans) had 64.2% higher median post-treatment lifespan

:unsure:
So what is this magic GSE, and is it impossible to get?

GSE = "grape seed extract"
Wait, hold on, do they extract it with alcohol? Because I know how to buy that.

grappa-bottles.jpg


Unfortunately, Grappa is distilled, so they throw away all the GSE and keep the alcohol. Oh well.

Here's the thing: you only need to take a dose once a month or so. ( scaling up from mice, twice a week)
So if someone bought grapes, took the seeds and ground them in a coffee grinder, and then used alcohol to extract the GSE by boiling gently, it is possible to make a version of this in the underground laboratory kitchen, and consumption shouldn't be too bad. It isn't tested in humans yet, but people have been eating grape seeds( not on purpose) since forever.

Who wants to give it a go? :) You might not have to. Pretty much all the polyphenols are very similar, so drinking roselle should also work, or eating dried parsely for apigenin. The evidence continues to accumulate. Meantime, if you are enjoying some grapes, maybe chomp the seeds?
 
Pandemic going strong, and scary ( based on owid Data - consider undercount ! ) : @GidMK on PFR .

GidMK_PFR.PNG

(short) Thread exported onto a webpage ( no twitter needed to read ):


Full Thread well worth reading if you are on twitter . @AtomsksSanakan, who is commenting in there, is one of my prime sources since I think March 2020 . @greg_travis also a great source .
 
"The paper suggests that symptoms do not determine viral load and thus transmissibility. Only Virus load does - regardless of symptoms."

 
Guess I am just linkbombing you guys before I am off for the day...


For context : Kai Kupferschmidt is an internationally extremely well reputed science journalist . Re the report, from the Thread :

"Who wrote the report? This is the Independent Panel for Pandemic Preparedness and Response (IPPPR), established last year in response to a resolution of the World Health Assembly. "

In at least one press briefing last year, WHO clearly said they are looking forward to this .

These people know they are not perfect . They want to their work to be scrutinized, their mistakes exposed, learn and get better .
 
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India:
State of Goa to use Ivermectin prophylaxis at population level. It is controversial.


Dose proposed is lower than in the IMASK protocol, and doctors within Goa are trying to get it adjusted. WHO is opposed to the strategy. Merck the drugmaker is also opposed in their statement on website.

The worst possible situation is to underdose and fail, causing widespread illness and strengthening the case vs the medicine, if it works. In the best case, it works and the world adopts an effective cheap new treatment. Conversely, if it does not work, sticking to a low dose regime will minimise side effects.

This is the kind of gamble that needs a big stake. It is effectively a huge scale clinical trial, with thousands of lives at risk, and very poor counting going on.
 
Ok, looking into making GSE, and found this:

Grapeseeds are processed into "flour" (seriously, who knew?) And there is a seed oil that can be pressed out as well. It is likely that the GSE would be lipid soluble, and would be present in the oil?

Not according to wiki. The polyphenol compounds stay in the flour. There should be substantial benefit from consuming that flour.
 
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