General / Off-Topic The safest place

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In short, there is evidence in the DNA that it is engineered?

Idiot ( dilettante ) here . Still think recombinant virusses are a thing in nature is worth mentioning . Am not at all able to say whether there is anything in the science so far ruling that one ( recombinant ) out re SARS - CoV -2 ( which would probably lead to human engineered, if Robin's findings and conclusiuons are correct, which I have no capacity to judge ) .
 
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See, this is the reason I'm against calls for retribution and reimbursement - unless there's clear evidence of reckless incompetence and/or malicious intent.

It's fine for some people to wail about China, right now, but next time it could just as easily be Britain generating BSE, foot & mouth in a European country or a virulent strain of Salmonella from the USA.
What happens then?
Do we hold each other to account in the same way that some people want China held to account?
As I already said, if we think China is being evasive now, the entire world is only going to become less truthful if nations start refusing to cooperate for fear of getting blamed for things.

To be clear, I've got nothing against people expressing criticism of any nation, group or individual but calls for more substantive retribution are just silly.
I feel there is a clear case of reckless incompetence this time. Responsibilty should be accepted and the markets should be cleaned up.
Same goes for any other country that accepts known dangerous operations to continue.
If we let it slide every time it’s someone important that messes up, nothing will change.
 
I feel there is a clear case of reckless incompetence this time. Responsibilty should be accepted and the markets should be cleaned up.
Same goes for any other country that accepts known dangerous operations to continue.
If we let it slide every time it’s someone important that messes up, nothing will change.

Uh wow...you serious about that one ?
 
There is this quote I like to use, I do not know its origins, or whether I am even quoting it 100% correctly...it goes something like this :

"Whenever something bad happens, the vast majority of people are looking for someone to blame . The others immediately get to work figuring out what happened, how it happened, how to soften the impact and what can and needs to be done to prevent it from happening again ."
That’s the same thing.
Finding out what happened - Dirty food market (or lab leak) in Wuhan.
Prevent it from hapening again - Close the dam markets for good. 😉
 
Uh wow...you serious about that one ?
Of cource. This is common practice If a private company messes up. If my sub standard oil carrier breakes in half and pollutes your beaches, I have to pay for cleaning them.
If I drunk drive and hit your car, I have to pay.
This is the same situation.
I’m probably not responsible for you refusing to leave your burning wreak because you think it will self extinguish, when it gets hot enough, but thats a diferent debate.😩
 
That’s the same thing.
Finding out what happened - Dirty food market (or lab leak) in Wuhan.
Prevent it from hapening again - Close the dam markets for good. 😉
ok,Let's start by closing mcdonalds and junk food outlets then, these foods cause more problems and deaths a year than any virus, and giving headaches to health services.

Have you ever been to an American broiler farm? I worked in that business for a while and saw some, and at that time (about 15 years ago), they didn't change the manure / soil after each brood, causing infections to the animal.
The farmers here could not believe it.
 
ok,Let's start by closing mcdonalds and junk food outlets then, these foods cause more problems and deaths a year than any virus, and giving headaches to health services.

Have you ever been to an American broiler farm? I worked in that business for a while and saw some, and at that time (about 15 years ago), they didn't change the manure / soil after each brood, causing infections to the animal.
The farmers here could not believe it.
Fast food is voulentary self destruction. That’s a different story.
For the rest of industry, If they cause danger and mass death they should be held acountable.
 
Reluctant to post this. Be skeptical. Ok. Here we go.

Turning to the viral genetics and proteonomics, for a moment, as interesting as the informed geopolitics is... I have not fully verified the material for myself, because reading gene code manually at 3 am is tough. The areas I covered check out, claims made are by others not me.

"There is a detailed but unsubstantiated source with an interesting claim. " <- that is a sentence. It is also just a collection of letters, like genetic code, but it has a meaning when you read it.
Imagine it is the code for Sars Cov 2, the virus giving us hell.

If we change one letter randomly, over time it would turn to gibberish. But it's possible to come up with a whole new sentence, with a new meaning. That is analogous to a new species.

Sars Cov 2 is believed to come from a bat virus RaTG13. One sentence became another, randomly. Some minor things: no surviving samples of that virus. We do have the gene code.

- https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s...k-of-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-lab-rumour

Ok, that means it would take 50 years of random code changes to get the SARS-CoV-2 virus from the precursor RaTG13. We would normally expect changes to each word.

But that is not what we see.

The chunk of code for the e protein is identical in both viruses, with zero changes

Imagine you actually took a paragraph or a page of text, started switching out the letters and got a new version 50 years later. It contains the whole phrase:
" unsubstantiated source with an interesting claim." - completely unchanged!
That would be weird, right? No silent point mutations ( minor misspellings) even? Perfectly identical code?

Nobody is looking at the structural envelope protein. They are looking at things inside and the fancy S protein outside.

Like if you get mail, you see what's inside, maybe look at the Stamp, which is the analogy for S protein. And ignore the structural boring envelope.

Imagine you got mail purporting to be from all over the world, with different stamps, and different letters, but somehow all the envelopes were tha same size, same paper, same fibres, same spectroscopy, - immediately you'd smell the scam, right? All the envelopes are from one store.

The code for the e protein has been plugged in after the other changes.
The other stuff finagled imperfectly to look natural. It is engineered. And it is covered up. But they forgot the envelope.

And guess what?
The e genetic code is mutating in the wild in 4 months. There are 4 point mutations listed now. You want us to believe that NO changes occurred in 50 years, but suddenly now, it's running at one mutation per month?

I am too incapacitated to persue the details to verify the claim. But it seems that even the code for RaTG13 is suspect. It's not an actual sample, just a text string.
The work on it is performed by first making the genes in labs.

Where did this code come from?

Shi Zhengli. O yea. Who else?

The same lady doing "Gain of Function" research on corona viruses. We are informed that the Wuhan lab isn't to blame because an investigation exonerated them - an investigation by Shi Zhengli.

Nothing to see here, guys. Shi is not defecting with files.

And the Chinese are not kidnapping her because she might be defecting, or sending sleepers to snuff out research at Pittsburgh University.
Totally just a random murder suicide. Must be a lover's spat.

Aftrr all, even Pompeo is backing away now.

Interesting, but even if it's true i don't think any nation will dare to make formal accusations.
It could be the spark for WW3.

So yea, it's natural. There is no doubt about it.

Regarding the mutation rate - well, now the virus has a rather large playfield and its wings spread. Hopefully it will mutate into something less malign
 
To change the tone a bit on Covid-19 blame, I'm going to clam that the SARS Cov2 is man made. Humanity is to blame for the virus. It's not something that just happens in nature.

The Corona virus came to existence because humans do not respect nature in general and wild animals in particular. When you put lost of live wild animals in cages, next to domestic live animals and throw in a bunch of humans, you create a virus infirmary. A nasty virus will pop out every five to ten years.

If we call this natural, we are on the wrong track. If we take the 'we should't pass blame' attitude, we turn a blind eye to unacceptable practices.

This doesn't just happen in east Asia. It's not that many years ago the Mad Cow disease was transferred to humans, due to unacceptable practises in European agriculture.

We have to blame those that are responsible. This time the responsible are in China. Not because China is evil. Because unethical and unnatural practises once again lead to a deadly virus.
If the virus had come from the UK , we should have blamed the UK. Not because they used to colonise half the world, but because they allowed farms to feed cows with scrapie-infected sheep meat.

If we accept these practises to avoid upsetting someone, we have our self to blame for the pandemic.

I'm not an environmentalist or anything like that; but I can't help but wonder if this pandemic is nature protecting us from ourselves. Right when most scientist think were are at a climate change tipping point.............
 
very convenient, but you forget all the culture and movements behind that cause these people to get hooked on a product or food.Typical.(y)
That is a risk we have accepted with open eyes. Same thing with alcohol.
If we don’t like it, we can ban it. It’s our democratic choice. We know fully well it’s not good for us, but we like it.
 
That is a risk we have accepted with open eyes. Same thing with alcohol.
If we don’t like it, we can ban it. It’s our democratic choice. We know fully well it’s not good for us, but we like it.
Yeah well, riddle me this...

  • we dont like people dieing of hunger...it still happens ;
  • we dont like inequality...it still happens ;
  • we dont like wars...they still happen ;
  • we dont like pollution ( air/water...)...it still happens ;
  • we dont like the extinction event the planet goes through ( plants/animals/insects )...it still happens ;

Where is our democratic power ?
 
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That’s the same thing.
Finding out what happened - Dirty food market (or lab leak) in Wuhan.
Prevent it from hapening again - Close the dam markets for good. 😉
Again and again....there are more plausible theories about how SARS - CoV - 2 came to be than wet market in China/Wuhan . It is a very plausible theory...but there are other viable ones, especially when looking at the Genome .

On a Sidenote, I hear nuclear bombs have killed, and potentially can and maybe even WILL kill a lot MORE people, and do loads of harm for about eternity to my home ( Earth ) . I would like the Nuclear powers on this planet to close down their nuclear bases, decomission their nuclear Planes and ships, and dismantle all their nuclear warheads .

Oh, and while I am at it....Nuclear reactors...I mean, Chernobyl, cant_type_it_ shima (in JAPAN, stupid filter ! ) ...please, close down ALL nuclear Reactors, as well . After all, we can not let any country continue dangerous practices . Right ?


Yeah sure...
 
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That's how freedom works, YOU as a person are responsible, not the government.
that same freedom that now a few idiots proclaim (also happens in my country), and that can lead them and others along with them to death.


If many of the responsibilities fell only on those people and not on governments, now there would be more than half the world infected.
Who do you think designs and proposes laws, those "responsible" and "free" people?(at most you will write a name or an X on a piece of paper).


That certain governments or countries are not interested in regulating these aspects of life, does not mean that others do not,
but they should ,because it is their responsibility the health of their citizens too.

(See school canteens in those countries of the first world for example, without any type of sanitary control, do you think that in my country we are less free by control the health of a child? Seriously, you use the word freedom so much, that it loses all meaning.
 
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Yeah well, riddle me this...

  • we dont like people dieing of hunger...it still happens ;
  • we dont like inequality...it still happens ;
  • we dont like wars...they still happen ;
  • we dont like pollution ( air/water...)...it still happens ;
  • we dont like the extinction event the planet goes through ( plants/animals/insects )...it still happens ;

Where is our democratic power ?
You could say that nature came up with an answer to all those problems but everyone has been running around for the last couple of months trying to prevent that from happening :unsure:;)
 
This is exactly what China does not want to happen. Nations becoming more self sufficient, is the last thing they want. When you are the words sub supplier, you don't wan't to see everyone turning their attention back home.
They need to convince the world that everything can go back to the way it was, and that all the problems that the epidemic have caused happened because we didn't do as they told us.
If the people consume less and pay a little more for what they consume (domestic production), then China loses a lot of its power and its nuisance.

The first responsible for the Chinese power and the first responsible for our enslavement to the China, it is us, the overconsumers, weak and pitiful.

-----------------------------------------------------------

😷
 
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