Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[relayer]

I know I've spent more time just wandering aimlessly across the Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim landscape than I've spent playing any of those games that hold the player's hand the whole time.

Just wandering around those games is a treat in and of itself; amazing artwork! I still play Morrowind (with the huge "fix" 3GB pack) as I like the skill system better than the simplified Oblivion and the even-more-simplified Skyrim.

I still have Wing Commander Privateer installed, and play it from time to time

I built a retro computer in November of last year; the absolute bestest parts (from 1999 or so) and a win98se/millenium franken-OS that lets me make RAMdisks and run anything from 1983 on up. It was really cheap to build and I am still loading old games into it including all the WC, TIE Fighter and Mechwarrior games... and of course, Elite '84. Loving it.

- - - Updated - - -

Leveling up in Star Trek Online - only using a shuttle for space missions.
(I'm LTS, so I get the captain's yacht )

*raises a glass to you* using our imaginations indeed

 

[Cody]

I expect being a drunken, lone, sol-based wolf-like cat made of bacon probably helps too.

Indubitably! Unsold Forks approve!

 

[Faded Glory]

Have Guinness - booze and food in one

Grouchowinder, the Drunks of Sol mascot - heartily approves! Here is a perfect example of emergency fuel scooping.

http://s8.postimg.org/8zvy5iko5/IMG_6478.jpg

I'm not sure that doesn't look like me on St Patricks day...

 

[Asp Explorer]

I built a retro computer in November of last year; the absolute bestest parts (from 1999 or so) and a win98se/millenium franken-OS that lets me make RAMdisks and run anything from 1983 on up. It was really cheap to build and I am still loading old games into it including all the WC, TIE Fighter and Mechwarrior games... and of course, Elite '84. Loving it.

Awesome isn't it

I bought a DX4/100 dos box a while back, was fun while it lasted - but then of course the SCSI drive died and I've not been able to find a suitable era replacement

Then the power supply developed problems. And then the AT keyboard interface wonked out. The Dallas RTC died again. Someone (probably me on a good Drunks of Sol outing!) trod on the only CD-caddy I had. And umpteen other things.

I've been using Dosbox on the Mac since - but it's just not the same!!!

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Well indirectly by saying that Solo shouldn't affect open mode we are also conceding to the fact that solo mode shouldn't be affected by open mode thereby declaring that we agree that solo mode is just as equal and just as valid as open mode. We just want it so be a separate mode. Equal and valid but separate !

Separating the modes would surely be an offense to some, but I think you will find that most players would actually be fine with it. However, most of us are equally aware that it is never going to happen, because while it might sit well with the playerbase, it wouldn't sit very well with Frontier which would have to double the costs (whatever they are) to run a second background+powerplay simulation. Then of course they'd have to separate the Xbox universe, and the universes within the Xbox and...wow...this is costing a lot of money....

No, with the actual options on the table, the current system was by far the best route to take. A small minority of ego-driven pvp types are frustrated while everyone else is happy. I can certainly live with that, and from threads here and on Reddit, I'd wager that most other players can live with it as well.

 

[Asp Explorer]

A small minority of ego-driven pvp types are frustrated while everyone else is happy. I can certainly live with that, and from threads here and on Reddit, I'd wager that most other players can live with it as well.

Frustrating ego-driven PvP types is one of the sweetest things modern gaming has to offer

 

[bluejay0013]

CZs and the content in them (Cap ships) show in Solo, Group and Open.
Each event creates new instances of itself as they are needed, for each player or groups of players.

I don't know where they all are, but Galnet normally has clues.

Is there a thread with current ship locations because I look at galnet all the time and never see any thing regarding cap ships. Now I love going to CZ's and fighting with the factions with less influence but I never see any cap ships, I heard there was one in YZ canis minoris but I was too late by time I heard it (today) and I was three days late. pretty much its my quest right now to find one, hopefully soon.

 

[DarkWalker]

Awesome isn't it

I bought a DX4/100 dos box a while back, was fun while it lasted - but then of course the SCSI drive died and I've not been able to find a suitable era replacement

Then the power supply developed problems. And then the AT keyboard interface wonked out. The Dallas RTC died again. Someone (probably me on a good Drunks of Sol outing!) trod on the only CD-caddy I had. And umpteen other things.

I've been using Dosbox on the Mac since - but it's just not the same!!!

I don't quite care for the smell of thermal grease in the morning that much, so I'm perfectly fine with an emulator

(Though I do have at home more than a few working devices that could be easily labeled vintage, including half a dozen Nintendo gaming consoles that are at least a decade old each...)

 

[relayer]

I bought a DX4/100 dos box a while back

The computer I first built was a 486 DX/33, which I scavenged parts for from office dumpsters. I was proud when I could put install my own math co-processor!

was fun while it lasted - but then of course the SCSI drive died and I've not been able to find a suitable era replacement. Then the power supply developed problems. And then the AT keyboard interface wonked out. The Dallas RTC died again. Someone (probably me on a good Drunks of Sol outing!) trod on the only CD-caddy I had. And umpteen other things.

I've been using Dosbox on the Mac since - but it's just not the same!!!

yeah, that's why I built Retro; most of the emus I tried couldn't deal with/or the game couldn't deal with the direct low-level hardware calls. It was much cheaper than I'd first thought; you can dig up many sealed overstock parts these days for very reasonable cost.


Oh, btw, I'll just leave this here... [current keyboard, 1 of 3 matching]



Works great on Elite Dangerous, no matter which mode you are in!

 

[Robert Maynard]

Here you go https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=166180&page=170

Link broken (it points to a page in the thread rather than a post and at 50 posts per page, there is no page 170 for me) - and it's probably about Guild features rather than CQC.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Please explain how players in group mode aren't playing in multiplayer.

They are playing in multiplayer but only in a co-op mode. In special cases with more players, own rules can be set up to manipulate the intended hostility in multiplayer against/amongst factions and specific groups (NPCs and players).

With these manipulated enivronment, the background sim can be influenced in a different way which makes it unequal to solo and open.

So playing wit hdifferent rules must have different results and must not have the same influence o nthe very same, in this case, background sim when others play with other rules.


Now a question for everyone: Why does a solo player wants to have influence on the background sim/other players if he/she is only playing alone?

 

[bootsam]

Now a question for everyone: Why does a solo player wants to have influence on the background sim/other players if he/she is only playing alone?

I dont. But the variations caused by other players effects on the background sim adds another variable to the galaxy we exist within. Makes it less static and more dynamic. Now tell me this, why is the same effect we cause the background sim troubling you? Its just another random variable.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

They are playing in multiplayer but only in a co-op mode. In special cases with more players, own rules can be set up to manipulate the intended hostility in multiplayer against/amongst factions and specific groups (NPCs and players).

With these manipulated enivronment, the background sim can be influenced in a different way which makes it unequal to solo and open.

So playing wit hdifferent rules must have different results and must not have the same influence o nthe very same, in this case, background sim when others play with other rules.


Now a question for everyone: Why does a solo player wants to have influence on the background sim/other players if he/she is only playing alone?

You can read the answer to that question in this very thread, and its predecessors.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Now a question for everyone: Why does a solo player wants to have influence on the background sim/other players if he/she is only playing alone?

I would expect that players in Solo want to experience and affect the evolving galaxy state, that is affected by every player, as Frontier stated at the outset. The more players affecting the galaxy state, the more it evolves. Don't forget, players on different platforms will also affect the same shared galaxy state.

 

[ianw]

Now a question for everyone: Why does a solo player wants to have influence on the background sim/other players if he/she is only playing alone?

I'm not a solo player but I imagine it's because there is only one background SIM/game - and when they cancelled offline mode FD made it very clear they are only prepared to support one SIM/game.

So clearly solo players want the same access to the game as everyone else.

The main game is not a competition - we are allowed to influence the sim as if we were AI.

The "proper" competition mode will be CQC.

 

[Mouse]

Link broken (it points to a page in the thread rather than a post and at 50 posts per page, there is no page 170 for me) - and it's probably about Guild features rather than CQC.

It was Robert, if you go back a couple pages or so, I quoted both of your posts that he was using for "evidence"

Now a question for everyone: Why does a solo player wants to have influence on the background sim/other players if he/she is only playing alone?

It is quite simple really.. if the game was offline, there would have to be program written to randomize everything.. influences, trade, even if stars are explored.. everything that effects the universe and stations and all. By using a Background Sim where everyone effects everything.. WE are that randomizer..

Solo players effects what they do and everyone else either counters it or helps it. It is their universe as well as everyone else.. they have as MUCH a right to influence the universe as anyone else. Being in solo does not mean they should be subject to the whim of everyone else in trade, influence, etc.

 

[PhazonAran]

Now a question for everyone: Why does a solo player wants to have influence on the background sim/other players if he/she is only playing alone?

What the player want on this subject doesn't really matter, FD themselves want everyone in the same galaxy.

 

[Jockey79]

What the player want on this subject doesn't really matter, FD themselves want everyone in the same galaxy.

Now where would you get a daft idea like that from?
(Sorry, just had to, was too good an opportunity )

..........


From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
*Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

Some Dev comments from the Kickstarter;



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1681441
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1705397
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1705551

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01) Plus how the Galaxy will evolve over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18
"DB explicitly said that solo players would be able to do community goals, though back then they weren't called that. Dev Diary Video #2, at the 4:10 mark."

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously .


Dev comments;

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Numi
Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.

No.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Robert Maynard
Thanks for that clarity Michael.

Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?

We're not planning on changing that.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by mosh_er
Hi Micheal

I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?

None are planned at the moment.

Michael

Originally Posted by David Braben AMA Thread, post 319

Originally Posted by Alexander the Grape
In the newsletter, it was mentioned that an intersection between a trading power and a military power will result in piracy missions.

Will this make NPC piracy more profitable or will we continue to need to focus on players?

It can be more profitable, and it will apply to both players and NPCs.

Originally Posted by David Braben AMA Thread, post #367

Originally Posted by Adept
For fun

That said, it could be worth thinking about reducing the impact that solo & group players have on the political simulation.

Unlike community goals, Powerplay is a swinging balance - ie solo players are also balancing solo players.

Originally Posted by David Braben

Originally Posted by FuzzySpider
The mechanics of powerplay, particularly the interface between player and power being an almost direct copy of the community goal model, gives the entire experience an MMO-guild type feel to the gameplay.


Is this MMO-style a new direction for Elite: Dangerous? Or will you be still focussing on the single player immersive experience, even if that single player is playing in a universe filled with other players?


Thank's very much to you and the FDev team for all of your efforts. One or two subjective niggles of mine aside the game is the one I've been waiting for for years and I'm totally enamoured with it.

We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.

E3 2015 Interview (17th June 2015);

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/0...-david-braben/


The overall thread topic (+ How XB1 fits);

On that last point, Producer Ben Dowie reiterated that Xbox One and PC players won’t be playing head-to-head—although they’ll be playing in the same simulated universe, they’ll never encounter each other in space, likely because Microsoft’s Xbox patch cycle adds complexity to Frontier’s game update procedure. This means that PC players and Xbox players will often wind up on different clients, which means no head-to-head play. To that end, anticipated PC-centric features will likely land on PC first.

And regarding the game design;

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”

To highlight something from that above quote;

“You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play."

Here is a quote from Zac Antonaci for the "game is dying" pro-claimers.
Dated 10th July 2015;

Originally Posted by Zac Antonaci

Originally Posted by fred
They need to be.


Look at the current posts on the subreddit and the forum. Your core player base is simply stopping playing. You might be selling copies but if your core community is splitting or stopping playing then you have a problem.

Hey Fred,


I wanted to reply to this honestly if I may.


I'm not going to be talking about active player numbers explicitally but I can tell you without question that the game has a very healthy and thriving community who enjoys hours upon hours of Elite. You really don't need to worry on that point.


<snip>


Zac

Originally Posted by Zac Antonaci

According to some members of the community, Solo players should have a limited or no effect on Powerplay - or, alternatively, playing in Open should offer Powerplay bonuses. Is this something you are considering?

No. For us Solo, Groups and Open are all valid and equal ways to play the game.

And a nice, clear, concise comment from Michael Brookes regarding the modes;

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes
From the initial inception of the game we have considered all play modes are equally valid choices. While we are aware that some players disagree, this hasn't changed for us.

Michael

Dev Update 6th August 2015 (https://community.elitedangerous.com/node/248);

What we are doing is new in many ways, both technically and in terms of how we are realizing our long term ambitions for Elite Dangerous. As we evolve the game we are trying to give the best value we can to both existing and new players, for the long term benefit of everyone. That’s why we’ve worked hard to keep backwards compatibility for the Elite Dangerous: Horizons season, and are continuing to release updates for ‘season one’ players. Everyone will continue to fly in the same galaxy, and be impacted by, participate in and help to drive the same events.

 

[Mouse]

Maybe each new page of the thread should start with the Jockey FD patented wall of Text?

 

[ianw]

Where would we be without the wall?

I wonder if anyone it's aimed at actually reads the whole thing? (I confess I haven't - but then I'm not arguing with it..)