Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Sylveria]

I have proof from a game on my HDD called Elite Dangerous Also the same cannot be said for Offline mode. The game is in release now, and MANY more have purchased it since then.

Hmm... I just heard a fizzle. In other words, you have no definitive proof from a Dev of what their intent was.

Good to know.

 

[bootsam]

I still fail to see how my game is 'easier' because I shun pvp. That statement is clearly inflammatory by attempting to draw a distinction between opens 'harder' game and groups/solo 'easier' game. Yet the statement is allowed and we cannot challenge it? It is indeed self aggrandising to assume one style of game is harder than the other, as it tacitly presumes the player in open has to work harder. This is not the case at all.

 

[ianw]

So if you are not fine with PvP, why would you buy a game, and enter the Open mode in chich PvP can occur? As far as I am concerned, you "consent" when you enter the game mode. This is why FD do not punish people for PK in Open.

I'm fine with PvP - I'm in open all the time.

Ask any of the pie rats who've caught me from time to time - I have doubled the amount they've asked for as a tip on several occasions if I've enjoyed the encounter.

If I don't like their approach I just high wake away.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Hmm... I just heard a fizzle. In other words, you have no definitive proof from a Dev of what their intent was.

Good to know.

I have no idea what you are referring to now. I said "We could ask a dev", but I can just log on, interdict another player, and kill them with no consequence other than an in-game bounty. You are the one making the extraordinary claim about PvP not being part of the game, so I say the burden is on you to provide the evidence Besides, stay chilled, It is just a game, no need to get so salty over a debate...

 

[Faded Glory]

So if you are not fine with PvP, why would you buy a game, and enter the Open mode in chich PvP can occur? As far as I am concerned, you "consent" when you enter the game mode. This is why FD do not punish people for PK in Open.

The problem (if it exists) is that some players enter Open, not realizing that there are essentially no rules, and no consequences to another player should that player attack them. They want player interaction, but don't realize that can include being attacked and killed for no reason (remember, these players aren't wanted, haven't done anything wrong).

I agree that when you go into Open you are (according to the game) consenting to anything, but unfortunately, that's not necessarily informed consent. It's why a number on this forum have suggested an Open PvE mode accessible from the main menu.

 

[Sylveria]

I have no idea what you are referring to now. I said "We could ask a dev", but I can just log on, interdict another player, and kill them with no consequence other than an in-game bounty. You are the one making the extraordinary claim about PvP not being part of the game, so I say the burden is on you to provide the evidence

Could you please quote exactly when I made this supposed claim that "PvP not being part of the game"? I don't believe I ever made such claim.

Please... take your time. I've got plenty of it.

 

[Roybe]

From what I can gather they were kicked out pretty quick.

As to PvP being turned off. Never going to happen. There should instead, be a pure Open PvE mode. Mobius is only a mortal man (I think ) and won't be around for ever.

If you put in a pure PVE mode then what we know of Open will die out completely anyway. Avoid the issue by removing PVP completely from the game. It's only reason for existence is to allow people to RP as immoral, amoral, or otherwise do socially unacceptable things. The community refuses to accept this as proper game play...so this refusal shows that PVP is not wanted within the game by the players. Look at Code currently blockading Hutton. So much pain being inflicted...and done so well, why should anyone stand for this type of game play...other than it is people RP'ing what they want to RP...and it is allowed within the rules of the game? You can fight for or against the morality. You can avoid the issue completely in Private modes. However, this is not enough for many...they want these guys banned...for playing the game their way.

So let's just stop this merry go round completely. The players do not want a dangerous, back stabbing game, with conflict driven by player choices and role playing. Remove this capability from the game....and let's get playing the game as it is actually designed.....cargo ship vs cargo ship, fighter vs. fighter, trading and killing between us and NPC's for all the things they drop! It's the real design of the game...it's the ONLY acceptable way to play the game.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

The problem (if it exists) is that some players enter Open, not realizing that there are essentially no rules, and no consequences to another player should that player attack them. They want player interaction, but don't realize that can include being attacked and killed for no reason (remember, these players aren't wanted, haven't done anything wrong).

I agree that when you go into Open you are (according to the game) consenting to anything, but unfortunately, that's not necessarily informed consent. It's why a number on this forum have suggested an Open PvE mode accessible from the main menu.

I agree here. They should put a "Trigger warning" in big red letters next to Open Play, so people dont feel so bad when they get PK'd.

 

[Sylveria]

I agree that when you go into Open you are (according to the game) consenting to anything, but unfortunately, that's not necessarily informed consent. It's why a number on this forum have suggested an Open PvE mode accessible from the main menu.

exactly this ^ FD never stated that simply going into Open is "informed" consent.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

If you put in a pure PVE mode you then what we know of Open will die out completely anyway. Avoid the issue by removing PVP completely from the game. It's only reason for existence is to allow people to RP as immoral, amoral, or otherwise do socially unacceptable things. The community refuses to accept this as proper game play...so this refusal shows that PVP is not wanted within the game by the players. Look at Code currently blockading Hutton. So much pain being inflicted...and done so well, why should anyone stand for this type of game play...other than it is people RP'ing what they want to RP...and it is allowed within the rules of the game? You can fight for or against the morality. You can avoid the issue completely in Private modes. However, this is not enough for many...they want these guys banned...for playing the game their way.

So let's just stop this merry go round completely. The players do not want a dangerous, back stabbing game, with conflict driven by player choices and role playing. Remove this capability from the game....and let's get playing the game as it is actually designed.....cargo ship vs cargo ship, fighter vs. fighter, trading and killing between us and NPC's for all the things they drop! It's the real design of the game...it's the ONLY acceptable way to play the game.

"If you put in a pure PVE mode you then what we know of Open will die out completely anyway" - I would say there is not enough evidence to come to a conclusion regarding this.

". It's only reason for existence is to allow people to RP as immoral, amoral, or otherwise" - Well again, having discussed this with you at length, do you still maintain I am an immoral or ammoral in my play-style? How can you assume we do "socially unacceptable" things because of a game we play? This is just random character slander..

"Look at Code currently blockading Hutton"

It is ONE stationon a joke community goal

"You can fight for or against the morality"

Then why not wing up and FIGHT?

" The players do not want a dangerous, back stabbing game" - No YOU do not want a dangerous game. It is called "Elite angerous" lol

"Cargo ship vs cargo ship, fighter vs. fighter" - You mean the way you want it to be, not the way it was designed. The whole thing has been designed around asymmetric combat. It has evolved around this for years now. They have a gamemode available so you cargo ship can compete against other cargo ships without pirates getting in the way.

".it's the ONLY acceptable way to play the game." - Literally, my way is the ONLY way to play the game.

 

[Roybe]

Well maybe someone will listen!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=181755&p=2798470&viewfull=1#post2798470

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Well maybe someone will listen!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=181755&p=2798470&viewfull=1#post2798470

Well that is a better solution than destroying the gamemode for a bunch of people. At least back down on the immoral anti-social player rhetoric. I saw tons of ships last night, Asps, Type 6's, spoke to a few. Everyone was fine.

 

[Faded Glory]

If you put in a pure PVE mode then what we know of Open will die out completely anyway. Avoid the issue by removing PVP completely from the game. It's only reason for existence is to allow people to RP as immoral, amoral, or otherwise do socially unacceptable things. The community refuses to accept this as proper game play...so this refusal shows that PVP is not wanted within the game by the players. Look at Code currently blockading Hutton. So much pain being inflicted...and done so well, why should anyone stand for this type of game play...other than it is people RP'ing what they want to RP...and it is allowed within the rules of the game? You can fight for or against the morality. You can avoid the issue completely in Private modes. However, this is not enough for many...they want these guys banned...for playing the game their way.

So let's just stop this merry go round completely. The players do not want a dangerous, back stabbing game, with conflict driven by player choices and role playing. Remove this capability from the game....and let's get playing the game as it is actually designed.....cargo ship vs cargo ship, fighter vs. fighter, trading and killing between us and NPC's for all the things they drop! It's the real design of the game...it's the ONLY acceptable way to play the game.

Not sure about all that Roybe.

Yes, some people do bemoan that fact that some players take advantage of the anything goes nature of Open, (things like the SagA pk'er and the current CG), but on the whole, they just get on with it. It seems to me that the players who complain loudest are those who see Open becoming ever less populated, as they have nowhere else to go, whereas others can go to a Group or to Solo.

You are correct, some players don't want 'a dangerous, back stabbing game, with conflict driven by player choices and role playing', but some players do, and I don't think it's right to take that possibility away from them. The fact that there may not be many, or enough players who want that kind of game is moot, but it's there.

 

[ianw]

Well maybe someone will listen!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=181755&p=2798470&viewfull=1#post2798470

Or maybe it will get merged!

We await the decision.....

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I remember when DB outlined how the PvP would work in elite, where anything would be possible - within the mechanics of the game - but that the repercussions would be such that a player would really have to think twice and weigh up how much they really want to blow someone up.

What saddens me is not that this has not been implemented.... (yet??)

but that FD have gone completely silent on the whole thing, and are not even offering the pretence of wanting gankers to face any consequences I am finally beginning to question if the gankers are not right on the money........... and that FD are unconcerned with getting any balance sorted with this

I have competed in this CG more than any other in a long time, and for the most part it has been good..... but a small number of players have really highlighted how big the issue is, and how broken the law and order mechanics are.

On top of that the fact that they are happy to even openly chat about cheating in recorded streams really is the nugget in the crap sandwich

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Not sure about all that Roybe.

Yes, some people do bemoan that fact that some players take advantage of the anything goes nature of Open, (things like the SagA pk'er and the current CG), but on the whole, they just get on with it. It seems to me that the players who complain loudest are those who see Open becoming ever less populated, as they have nowhere else to go, whereas others can go to a Group or to Solo.

You are correct, some players don't want 'a dangerous, back stabbing game, with conflict driven by player choices and role playing', but some players do, and I don't think it's right to take that possibility away from them. The fact that there may not be many, or enough players who want that kind of game is moot, but it's there.

I agree with this. I was not a massive fan of Powerplay, but liked there were other people going about their faction business whilst I was not. It added to the diversity of the game.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember when DB outlined how the PvP would work in elite, where anything would be possible - within the mechanics of the game - but that the repercussions would be such that a player would really have to think twice and weigh up how much they really want to blow someone up.

What saddens me is not that this has not been implemented.... (yet??)

but that FD have gone completely silent on the whole thing, and are not even offering the pretence of wanting gankers to face any consequences

I have competed in this CG more than any other in a long time, and for the most part it has been good..... but a small number of players have really highlighted how big the issue is, and the fact that they are happy to even openly chat about cheating in recorded streams really is the nuggett in the crap sandwitch

Perhaps when player factions arrive, there will be faction wide consequences for bad players. Say The Code establish themselves as a minor faction at Lave, and a bunch of their members start being bad. Perhaps it reflects on the whole team, so you can get bounties just for taking out a code, designated as an outlaw faction. Also they would be easy to spot.. It is probably not planned but it seems a cool idea to me.

 

[Cody]

I remember when DB outlined how the PvP would work in elite, where anything would be possible - within the mechanics of the game - but that the repercussions would be such that a player would really have to think twice and weigh up how much they really want to blow someone up.

What saddens me is not that this has not been implemented.... (yet??)

but that FD have gone completely silent on the whole thing, and are not even offering the pretence of wanting gankers to face any consequences. I am finally beginning to question if the gankers are not right on the money........... and that FD are unconcerned with getting any balance sorted with this

FD probably think it's 'solid'... like exploration!

 

[Roybe]

"If you put in a pure PVE mode you then what we know of Open will die out completely anyway" - I would say there is not enough evidence to come to a conclusion regarding this.

". It's only reason for existence is to allow people to RP as immoral, amoral, or otherwise" - Well again, having discussed this with you at length, do you still maintain I am an immoral or ammoral in my play-style? How can you assume we do "socially unacceptable" things because of a game we play? This is just random character slander..

"Look at Code currently blockading Hutton"

It is ONE stationon a joke community goal

"You can fight for or against the morality"

Then why not wing up and FIGHT?

" The players do not want a dangerous, back stabbing game" - No YOU do not want a dangerous game. It is called "Elite angerous" lol

"Cargo ship vs cargo ship, fighter vs. fighter" - You mean the way you want it to be, not the way it was designed. The whole thing has been designed around asymmetric combat. It has evolved around this for years now. They have a gamemode available so you cargo ship can compete against other cargo ships without pirates getting in the way.

".it's the ONLY acceptable way to play the game." - Literally, my way is the ONLY way to play the game.

I can only reply to this by stating the obvious, whether a single person 'plays fair' doesn't matter. The chances that a player that doesn't want a given type of play and it is forced upon them is what does. PvP in this game forces activity on those that do not want it. This must be alleviated to make these people happy. I personally find the idea of a PVE mode MORE detrimental to the game than removing PVP from the game entirely. You disagree. That is fine! Mine is an extreme position...however, I see it as less extreme than a PVE mode.

The issue as you see it is that those that do not want to PVP in some way should be forced to fight other players directly over positions of morality. Those upset by these actions can't be bothered to try to correct the situation...as they do not care to fix the problem as players, they feel the situation should not exist within the game at all, and the devs need to fix bad design. My feelings is that fixing bad design with another bad design is silly. Just do away with the problem all together. It will give us all peace, less work for mods (since these highly repetitive discussions will be self limiting), and less attention has to be focused on these threads to straighten out misconceptions about the game, it's rules, and what is acceptable for who.

 

[Faded Glory]

FD probably think it's 'solid'... like exploration!

<Cachinnates>

 

[Roybe]

Or maybe it will get merged!

We await the decision.....

It is a solid request in the bug reporting section of the game. This is similar to the Steam issue. The lack of clarity in an original post from the devs cost them quite a lot of money over the idea that 30% of all sales from their own store goes to Steam. If a simple statement that Open equates to PVP and possible loss of assets to other players will make people think about entering this mode...I see no problem with the request.