Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Cowboy Bats]

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That said, I think we all can agree that solo is the beginner mode, co-op/group the beginner mode for friends (and a good way to teach a friend the game) and open being the normal mode. Playing a multiplayer game how it should be.

As we say in Texas: Ah Hell no! I don't agree with that statement even in the slightest. I'll be blunt. IMHO, open is for griefers and fools, with virtually no middle ground to speak of. See all the threads last week crying about CODE at Hutton? Notice that I'm not in any of them? Because I'm not stupid enough to bolster their egos and add to the alleged 500+ ships they claim to have taken down. Those that did are just fools in my opinion, you didn't prove a thing, but you gave CODE plenty to mock you about, and they did. You aren't adding to your own gaming experience by feeding a beast like that, you're relegating yourself to content for other players, and I for one refuse.

 

[relayer]

That is because they are not really looking for PVP as most people view it, they are looking for victims. I keep hearing that NPC's are too easy.. yet if you look at the type of target some of the most vocal "PVPers" go after.. they are equal too as or in some cases easier than an NPC... what challenge is a starter Sidey? The form of PVP that is looked for is not usually a fight, but a domination. A controlled and heavily reduced risk for the attacker.. or in truth the severe lack of risk...

Exactly. Big scary threat in that shieldless, gunless Type-9.

Yet they claim that the risk in open is so great they need better rewards.

Still trying to parse this one - is it "barren," "a wasteland," or is it "chock full o' risk"? The "position" seems to squirm around frequently.

Fairness is the last thing they want, because it introduces risk to them.

Just so. Repped.

 

[Roybe]

Interesting poll sadly nothing for me there as what I want is the open that was promised 2 years ago where aggressive illegal actions (trying to dodge the G word) had long lasting and far reaching consequences.

Until I give up and accept FD have failed and given up trying to do this I worry a PvE official mode right now is not the FD cop out mode. YES I want it but only after they deliver the open promised in dev diaries and pre release videos. As said before my fear is that not being in yet but more so their silence on the matter even more so post huttongate

And their most recent statements show they understand that they are in a pickle over this...because they desire illegal activities to occur...and not be prohibited based on draconian policing. In other words...bad things will occur in the game between players...and the cost to do those bad things are hard to balance. We do not know how much the current changes to bounties and fines affected the game...but if the statistics are not where the devs want them they will tweak things a little harder...but..what if this is actually the zone in which the devs feel that the justice system is working to their desires?

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Why? You wouldn't use it and are REALLY happy in the current Open mode, that's fine. Why do you want people who would prefer to use such a mode to be less than optimally happy with the game?

I like the Darwinian nature of the mode, I like the way it selects for the toughest players (in my opinion). Also, I like the fact the game has no default PvE controls. It makes the galaxy somewhat ... dangerous. As I said, I can only ASSUME it is the vision of the devs (as there never has been, and probably never will be, a PvE mode), and I agree. Either that or they just forgot to put one in lol. Any player in your instance can attack you. Elite Dangerous.

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So, to clarify- you wouldn't at all be adverse to an additional menu choice such as "Open PvE" if Open mode as it stands is left exactly as it is?

No, I would like it to stay as it is. I merely offered a suggestion that there be a groups browser, but nobody seemed to think it was a good idea. I think after reflection, leaving things as they are is the best way.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

And their most recent statements show they understand that they are in a pickle over this...because they desire illegal activities to occur...and not be prohibited based on draconian policing. In other words...bad things will occur in the game between players...and the cost to do those bad things are hard to balance. We do not know how much the current changes to bounties and fines affected the game...but if the statistics are not where the devs want them they will tweak things a little harder...but..what if this is actually the zone in which the devs feel that the justice system is working to their desires?

An interesting point but if that is the case I would say the least FD owe us is an honest and open post about this explaining the reasons why they felt the need for a total uturn on crime and punishment (out side of anarchy space). Some may say bait and switch after they got their backing from KSer? (I myself would not go so far)

Following up from that I would then say after knowing the new space shooter direction of ED is official and working as intended and not just incomplete mechanics THEN I would say "can we at least have PvE mode where PvP comes with draconian punishments.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

An interesting point but if that is the case I would say the least FD owe us is an honest and open post about this explaining the reasons why they felt the need for a total uturn on crime and punishment (out side of anarchy space). Some may say bait and switch after they got their backing from KSer? (I myself would not go so far)

Following up from that I would then say after knowing the new space shooter direction of ED is official and working as intended and not just incomplete mechanics THEN I would say "can we at least have PvE mode where PvP comes with draconian punishments.

"what if this is actually the zone in which the devs feel that the justice system is working to their desires?"

given all of the groups forming to counter Code, it seems like Brabens vision of the community banding together and going into Open to fight them is coming true.

 

[relayer]

That said, I think we all can agree that solo is the beginner mode, co-op/group the beginner mode for friends (and a good way to teach a friend the game) and open being the normal mode. Playing a multiplayer game how it should be.

Ummmm... no, not agreed at all. Open, as stated time & again by other "open advocates" is as risk-free " as solo/group as long as you go a couple hundred light years out" (that "risk-free" is slightly biased; there's still NPCs and, recently, wings of higher-ranked NPCs).

 

[Notwyn]

So, to clarify- you wouldn't at all be adverse to an additional menu choice such as "Open PvE" if Open mode as it stands is left exactly as it is?

Looking forward to the reply to this question.
I'd love to have an Open PvE.

 

[ianw]

I like the Darwinian nature of the mode, I like the way it selects for the toughest players (in my opinion). Also, I like the fact the game has no default PvE controls. It makes the galaxy somewhat ... dangerous. As I said, I can only ASSUME it is the vision of the devs (as there never has been, and probably never will be, a PvE mode), and I agree. Either that or they just forgot to put one in lol. Any player in your instance can attack you. Elite Dangerous.

I guess we might also assume combat logging is the vision of the devs too lol. Or maybe they forgot to tick the "disallow combat logging box" on the server. Any player in your instance can leave anytime.

Maybe they made a mistake? It's kind of confusing.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Ummmm... no, not agreed at all. Open, as stated time & again by other "open advocates" is risk-free "as long as you go a couple hundred light years out" (that "risk-free" is slightly biased; there's still NPCs and, recently, wings of higher-ranked NPCs).

When I started playing, I began in solo. To me, it was like a creche where I could learn how to play. I migrated to Open and after some scary moments, realised it was the best way to play (in my opinion), so in some ways I agree with this poster. But that is just my personal opinion, based on how i play the game.

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I guess we might also assume combat logging is the vision of the devs too lol. Or maybe they forgot to tick the "disallow combat logging box" on the server. Any player in your instance can leave anytime.

Maybe they made a mistake? It's kind of confusing.

You would have a point, if they did not punish combat loggers I have never heard of anyone being punished for a PK in Open (unless they were cheating). Hope that eases the confusion... Besides, combat logging is a given in all online games, except maybe Rust, where you character just falls asleep.

 

[Robert Maynard]

That said, I think we all can agree that solo is the beginner mode, co-op/group the beginner mode for friends (and a good way to teach a friend the game) and open being the normal mode. Playing a multiplayer game how it should be.

You must have missed this interview between DBOBE and Arstechnica at E3:2015:

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”

(as there never has been, and probably never will be, a PvE mode)

Solo?

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Solo?

Haha good point! I concede. There is always solo mode, so you already have that. Ninja'd

 

[Roybe]

An interesting point but if that is the case I would say the least FD owe us is an honest and open post about this explaining the reasons why they felt the need for a total uturn on crime and punishment (out side of anarchy space). Some may say bait and switch after they got their backing from KSer? (I myself would not go so far)

Following up from that I would then say after knowing the new space shooter direction of ED is official and working as intended and not just incomplete mechanics THEN I would say "can we at least have PvE mode where PvP comes with draconian punishments.

They have always stated that they wanted conflict between players....they have never been silent on the fact that they expect players to commit crimes against each other....they have always been open about their desire against prohibiting crime.

People's interpretation of what this means has varied...obviously from the most anarchic to the most authoritarian in nature. I am not sure where the balance currently is between this. I am sure the devs do. It appears they find the system currently satisfactory, since there is little discussion now about justice, etc. from them...and they seem to be quite quiet when questions of morality crop up and burn through the forums. What side you think they have u-turned from depends on where the in justice spectrum you fall into.

This seems real similar to many of the discussions on what 'FDev promised' and how those promises were delivered. When you look at what was promised...we have the vast majority of it currently. You might disagree with the implementation and expected level to which expectations were met...but the item promised is in the game. The same applies here...there is a justice system in place...whether it is working to someone's expectations is arguable...but they are only someone's expectations...not the devs expectations or balance. That we are not privy to...in this...or any other game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Haha good point! I concede. There is always solo mode, so you already have that. Ninja'd

Ah, but Solo does not allow for PwP. Private Groups facilitate this - if a player can find one. I like your suggestion of in some way advertising Private Groups within the launcher - that may go some way to assisting PvE players who wish to play among others to find a Private Group that suits their needs (in the absence of an officially supported Open-PvE mode).

 

[ianw]

You would have a point, if they did not punish combat loggers I have never heard of anyone being punished for a PK in Open (unless they were cheating). Hope that eases the confusion... Besides, combat logging is a given in all online games, except maybe Rust, where you character just falls asleep.

I know they said they'd punish combat logging and they have declared it cheating. But they also said there was going to be an offline mode and look what happened to that, so you know ...

Still, if you can show me the official list of people that FD have banned for combat logging I'll happily retract!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Ah, but Solo does not allow for PwP. Private Groups facilitate this - if a player can find one. I like your suggestion of in some way advertising Private Groups within the launcher - that may go some way to assisting PvE players who wish to play among others to find a Private Group that suits their needs (in the absence of an officially supported Open-PvE mode).

thanks for responding to the suggestion! Yeah it just occurred when I saw EDC were taking over the Smitty Jagerman (spelling?) group. They could have up to 8000 players if everyone there joined. It would probably be PvE as well..

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I know they said they'd punish combat logging and they have declared it cheating. But they also said there was going to be an offline mode and look what happened to that, so you know ...

Still, if you can show me the official list of people that FD have banned for combat logging I'll happily retract!

Players HAVE been shadow-banned (aka punished) though, so I see it as them keeping their promise. Some logs though I imagine, are genuine. I feel bad for those layers, bu I imagine they only punish repeat offenders. I don;t honestly know though, I have met a few loggers. I reported them all. Perhaps Robert Maynard can confirm whether anyone has been banned or not? I think they have, the other possibility is that there is a massive conspiracy, and FDEV are lying to us. I don't think so.

Perhaps this thread will help you...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143641

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

They have always stated that they wanted conflict between players....they have never been silent on the fact that they expect players to commit crimes against each other....they have always been open about their desire against prohibiting crime.

People's interpretation of what this means has varied...obviously from the most anarchic to the most authoritarian in nature. I am not sure where the balance currently is between this. I am sure the devs do. It appears they find the system currently satisfactory, since there is little discussion now about justice, etc. from them...and they seem to be quite quiet when questions of morality crop up and burn through the forums. What side you think they have u-turned from depends on where the in justice spectrum you fall into.

This seems real similar to many of the discussions on what 'FDev promised' and how those promises were delivered. When you look at what was promised...we have the vast majority of it currently. You might disagree with the implementation and expected level to which expectations were met...but the item promised is in the game. The same applies here...there is a justice system in place...whether it is working to someone's expectations is arguable...but they are only someone's expectations...not the devs expectations or balance. That we are not privy to...in this...or any other game.

Always good chatting with you roybe. Personally I think you are letting g FD off the hook too easily on this based on past coments from FD. But to each their own.

After a skin full of ale it is time for this cmdr to call it a night however ....... But am sure one way or another we will chat again sometime. Fly safe.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Perhaps Robert Maynard can confirm whether anyone has been banned or not?

Moderators are volunteers recruited from the community - we are not Frontier representatives and, as such, are not privy to such information.

 

[Roybe]

Always good chatting with you roybe. Personally I think you are letting g FD off the hook too easily on this based on past coments from FD. But to each their own.

After a skin full of ale it is time for this cmdr to call it a night however ....... But am sure one way or another we will chat again sometime. Fly safe.

Not sure about letting them off a hook...it's just that they are defining what the hook is and we have to ultimately decide to fish with it...or just cut bait.

o7

 

[Cody]

...it's just that they are defining what the hook is and we have to ultimately decide to fish with it...

Many anglers use barbless hooks these days!