Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Imperial Guard]

And again we see how you think, undermining in Solo IS doing PowerPlay normally. PP is a PVE mechanic.. how many times do we have to tell you this? There is NO PVP in PowerPlay what so ever.. no mission to kill this player or that.. no merits for killing a CMDR of another power, everything is PVE.

PVP in powerplay terms would be
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering preparation reports
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering fortification supplies
Killing CMDRS in your own space to prevent them undermining (killing your NPCs)

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Open Online
Group Private Server
Solo Offline
CQC Online stand alone product

The only thing online about Group and Solo is the background data
If you ain't visibly there for all to see, you aren't online.

 

[Robert Maynard]

PVP in powerplay terms would be
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering preparation reports
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering fortification supplies
Killing CMDRS in your own space to prevent them undermining (killing your NPCs)

Indeed.

There is a role for PvP in Powerplay - to do just as you say - however, it does not reward the player who destroys the target ship directly.

 

[fademist]

PVP in powerplay terms would be
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering preparation reports
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering fortification supplies
Killing CMDRS in your own space to prevent them undermining (killing your NPCs)

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Open Online
Group Private Server
Solo Offline
CQC Online stand alone product

The only thing online about Group and Solo is the background data
If you ain't visibly there for all to see, you aren't online.

u still dont get it right?

 

[Jockey79]

PVP in powerplay terms would be
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering preparation reports
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering fortification supplies
Killing CMDRS in your own space to prevent them undermining (killing your NPCs)

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Open Online
Group Private Server
Solo Offline
CQC Online stand alone product

The only thing online about Group and Solo is the background data
If you ain't visibly there for all to see, you aren't online.

You really fail to understand don't you.

There is no "Offline" in anything.
All 3 modes (soon to be 4) are ONLINE modes.
On the same server.

Because the modes ARE NOT separate games. There is 1 game, the "modes" are just filters on who you can see while you are online.

 

[relayer]

If someone is playing in Solo, and their cat eats their router - they won't get a message "unable to connect to server" and get kicked out to the main menu?

You mean like this?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Open Online
Group Private Server
Solo Offline
CQC Online stand alone product

The only thing online about Group and Solo is the background data
If you ain't visibly there for all to see, you aren't online.

You seem to be conflating "online" with "multi-player".

Even then, there are two multi-player game modes in Elite: Dangerous.

All three game modes are simply different settings on the matchmaking system - Solo = match with no other players; Private Group = match with players playing in the same Private Group; Open = match with players playing in Open.

 

[Mouse]

PVP in powerplay terms would be
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering preparation reports - choice and not required for Powerplay
Killing CMDRS to prevent them delivering fortification supplies - choice and not required for Powerplay
Killing CMDRS in your own space to prevent them undermining (killing your NPCs) - choice and not required for Powerplay


Each of your PVP examples are all choices people can make during Power Play but are in no way actually connected to Power Play. Each has a way in PVE to counter those actions as it was intended in PowerPlay since it is a PVE mechanic. Those that choose to do so PVPly not PVEly made their choice, but it is not an actual part of Power Play, if it was then you'd get merits for killing the CMDRs of other powers.. which you don't.
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Open Online - yup open is online
Group Private Server - nope, as you are not on a private server your online and just in a private group
Solo Offline - oh dear you seem to be confused as to the definition of Online
CQC Online stand alone product - if you have to log into ED and can switch between CQC and other modes easily.. how is it an any way a "stand alone product"

The only thing online about Group and Solo is the background data
If you ain't visibly there for all to see, you aren't online.

Give me a break with the draconian version of what "online" is as it is utterly false.
It is quite simple, almost like a Jeff Foxworthy redneck joke.

IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN INTERNET CONNECTION TO PLAY.. you might realize you're online.
IF YOU HAVE TO LOG IN TO PLAY... you might realize you're online.
IF YOU CAN SEE WHEN OTHERS ARE ONLINE EVEN IF YOUR IN SOLO MODE.... come on you know the phrase now.. say it with me .... you might realize you're ONLINE.


Not so hard now is it?

 

[Jockey79]

You seem to be conflating "online" with "multi-player".

Even then, there are two multi-player game modes in Elite: Dangerous.

All three game modes are simply different settings on the matchmaking system - Solo = match with no other players; Private Group = match with players playing in the same Private Group; Open = match with players playing in Open.

We should go back to "island instances" and how my personal bubble of 32 can interact with you personal bubble of 32, while interacting with someone elses buble of 32 and how people would see each other without exceeding 32 people in 1 "island instance".

With a sprinkle of the effects of Ping, P2P and UDP ports.

/evil grin

 

[DarkWalker]

Basic forum and basic chat room had other players, that's my point exactly.

You aren't in a room by yourself making up a game.

In fact that is the basis for my whole argument, and you just walked right into it. Need other players that are unscripted, unique and different to create emergent gameplay other than scripted AI sequences.

Going by your argument, you just proved the need for an Open PvE mode, so players that don't want PvP are allowed the same kind of emergent gameplay as the PvPers

I'm still holding my point of view that Solo does have good emergent gameplay too, though. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else dislikes it; given the number of people in the forums that say they play either part of the time or all the time in Solo, I expect the opposite to be true.

proper pvp is power play pvp, cz pvp, nav/res pvp.

Highly subjective. I find PvP like that simply not worth wasting my time with; on the other hand, the kind of PvP that I consider "proper" is instanced and balanced arena PvP, similar to CQC (when the matchmaking works, at least).

I'l just take a cheap example from UO. Everyone was blue, nobody attacked each other (until later everyone had a player house they needed no more banks) - if you saw a grey you were hesitant and if you saw a red, every blue would pile him even other reds. How u get red? Murder - Elite is like, YO bro you just ganked 50 sidewinders? lol who cares enjoy - Hence every trader and new player gets dogpiled for cheap laughs.

"The unforgiving play environment that made UO so intense was clearly driving away between 70+% of all the new players that tried the game within 60 days." — Gordon Walton, who got hired as Executive Producer for UO to either fix the player retention issue or close down the game, talking about pre-Trammel UO.

"PK, brings a ton to the table but was also the number one reason players exited UO" — Chris Spears, Technical Director of Shroud of the Avatar.

I don't think copying it would be a good idea

To be fair: those devs, as well as other ones that worked on UO and other MMOs with open PvP, do recognize that for the kind of player that does enjoy open world PvP it creates the most intense, vivid experiences. But they also found out that the players that do enjoy it are a minority; for the rest it will, instead, make them leave the game, usually to never return (UO only managed to get roughly 5% of the previous players that had left due to PK to try the game again after Trammel), so allowing players to opt out of the PvP is better for the health of the game.

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The only thing online about Group and Solo is the background data
If you ain't visibly there for all to see, you aren't online.

You have a different definition for online than the rest of the industry, then.

 

[Roybe]

Going by your argument, you just proved the need for an Open PvE mode, so players that don't want PvP are allowed the same kind of emergent gameplay as the PvPers

I think there is a strong case that could be made for this argument...unfortunately, it is completely trumped by 'the devs see this issue differently.'. At which point, the discussion should move on to trains, hobo's, loose women, and cheap booze.

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We should go back to "island instances" and how my personal bubble of 32 can interact with you personal bubble of 32, while interacting with someone elses buble of 32 and how people would see each other without exceeding 32 people in 1 "island instance".

With a sprinkle of the effects of Ping, P2P and UDP ports.

/evil grin

Go play Star Citizen...this is exactly how that game will work!

 

[Cody]

... trains, hobo's, loose women, and cheap booze.

Unsold Forks approve!

 

[Imperial Guard]

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

Elite: Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic.
With a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entirety of the Milky Way re-created at its full galactic proportions.
Starting with only a small starship and a few credits, players do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to survive in a futuristic cutthroat galaxy and to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite: Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy

 

[Roybe]

And again we see how you think, undermining in Solo IS doing PowerPlay normally. PP is a PVE mechanic.. how many times do we have to tell you this? There is NO PVP in PowerPlay what so ever.. no mission to kill this player or that.. no merits for killing a CMDR of another power, everything is PVE.

My head hurts...I really have to lay off the forums for a few days...

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https://www.elitedangerous.com/

Elite: Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic.
With a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entirety of the Milky Way re-created at its full galactic proportions.
Starting with only a small starship and a few credits, players do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to survive in a futuristic cutthroat galaxy and to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite: Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy

So 'Open world' design was in the first Elite....with only a single player mode...methinks there is a definition problem here. You can play in the open world in solo, private group...or Open. The differences between the modes really is choosing your level of personal interaction with other players.

 

[Mouse]

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

Elite: Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic.
With a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entirety of the Milky Way re-created at its full galactic proportions.
Starting with only a small starship and a few credits, players do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to survive in a futuristic cutthroat galaxy and to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite: Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy

I guess you missed that tidbit.. and since everyone effects the Background simulation it is massively multiplayer even in solo

 

[Jockey79]

....
Go play Star Citizen...this is exactly how that game will work!

It is how this game works.... which is why the Devs used to explain it that way.
But as it confused everyone the terminology used changed, it became more simple - but less accurate and no longer reflects how the game works.

 

[Imperial Guard]

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

Elite: Dangerous is the definitive massively multiplayer space epic.
With a connected galaxy, evolving narrative and the entirety of the Milky Way re-created at its full galactic proportions.
Starting with only a small starship and a few credits, players do whatever it takes to earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to survive in a futuristic cutthroat galaxy and to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER
Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite: Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space. Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy

This is how Frontier describe Elite on their website - WHAT IS ELITE : DANGEROUS

Lets pick out the bits that would make me go YEAH! and purchase the game
Massively Multiplayer Space epic
Connected Galaxy
Entire Milky Way
Do whatever it takes
Massively multiplayer space
Every pilot you come across could be ally or enemy
Unpredicable encounters with people from around the world

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is how Frontier describe Elite on their website - WHAT IS ELITE : DANGEROUS

Lets pick out the bits that would make me go YEAH! and purchase the game
Massively Multiplayer Space epic
Connected Galaxy
Entire Milky Way
Do whatever it takes
Massively multiplayer space
Every pilot you come across could be ally or enemy
Unpredicable encounters with people from around the world

You forgot: "Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy....".

 

[Imperial Guard]

You forgot: "Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy....".

Yep, join a wing or go it alone.

 

[Roybe]

This is how Frontier describe Elite on their website - WHAT IS ELITE : DANGEROUS

Lets pick out the bits that would make me go YEAH! and purchase the game
Massively Multiplayer Space epic
Connected Galaxy
Entire Milky Way
Do whatever it takes
Massively multiplayer space
Every pilot you come across could be ally or enemy
Unpredicable encounters with people from around the world

It is all this...it's just that the instancing is set up differently than other online games.

 

[Khelder]

You forgot: "Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy....".

There is actually no reason why that line can't be applied to Open mode, particularly since it appears under the heading Massively Multiplayer.