Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Roybe]

Quite a number of PVE players from our group have come here and asked for PVE mode visible in the start menu but it not only constantly falls on deaf ears, we also get plenty of abuse from those who are in the open PVP group who tell us having a private group is care bear/easymode and some have even accused us of cheating.

/fold

I have no answer for this other than, if the players want it, they need to advocate for it. Not singly, or in small groups that get squashed by those that disagree. But in numbers large enough that those that disagree do not matter. Until that occurs, the louder of the sides will win. If there are discussions that lead to names being called make free use of the report button, that will get the discussion back on track and those that hurl the epithets will clean up their arguments. Just remember that the name calling is a two way street.

In something of this matter, numbers will win. Or at least get the devs involved in a discussion as to why things are the way they are...and how things can be improved. I will say, that currently, the PvE people have a problem with the Justice system, mainly because the devs have clearly stated that they expect crime to occur and the outcomes apparently have to be equal between PC's and NPC's. An expectation of stronger responses is non-productive. If anything changes on this front, it will be incremental...not large scale.

Again, I mean no ill will towards the PvE players. I just see the discussion of an Open PvE mode a problem with the outlet of Mobius readily available.

One other thing, there should be some way to get this discussion going in the regular forums...having the discussion here is fruitless.

Whether there would be some moderation agreement, or setting up a Open PvE thread like the locked Open vs. thread where everyone gets one post...something. As I see this as a valid discussion that needs to be had, particularly in light of where Mobius appears to be heading.

The reason this needs to be moved to the forums is, unless stated, this is not a 'non-negotiable' issue. The existence of the modes definitely is. The existence of another mode, should be negotiable. Keeping the discussion from spiraling into Open vs. would be the challenge.

 

[Lestenio]

As with the post "if" mode switching wasn't a thing. They would have to decide to learn from the emergent game play or go and play with their other save file in a different mode.

If mode switching was never a thing, perhaps. But if mode switching was removed then that would be consider removing something I paid for. That wouldn't end well. FD would lose players for sure, get negative publicity and probably find themselves on the end of various lawsuits. Or the very least would be giving away lots of refunds.

If, wouldn't even be something that FD consider.

 

[Roybe]

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So does The Code

*Gently rubs his Triple Elite chufty badge*

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Rightfully so! I give you guys credit all the time for your contributions. Without you, the game would be way more lopsided, the game needs more 'bad guys'!

 

[Jockey79]

.... the game needs more 'bad guys'!

Well, as there was a thread today asking if Code "is still a thing", and the last few CGs people have asked where Code is - I'm inclined to agree.

Now excuse me while I go wash my mouth out

 

[Asp Explorer]

I just see the discussion of an Open PvE mode a problem with the outlet of Mobius readily available.

I think it would only be sensible for Mobius to be advertised as a Private Group from the ED Launcher - clearly stated that it's a PVP-free environment that people can easily find and enjoy their gametime in.

It would be equally sensible for Code (or any other PVP focused group) to have a slot in the ED launcher too - clearly stated that it's a PVP environment that people can easily find and enjoy their gametime in.

Maybe rotate them on a daily basis so everyone knows the options available to them?

 

[Majinvash]

I think it would only be sensible for Mobius to be advertised as a Private Group from the ED Launcher - clearly stated that it's a PVP-free environment that people can easily find and enjoy their gametime in.

It would be equally sensible for Code (or any other PVP focused group) to have a slot in the ED launcher too - clearly stated that it's a PVP environment that people can easily find and enjoy their gametime in.

Maybe rotate them on a daily basis so everyone knows the options available to them?

We already have a slot, its called Open.

"Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space."

PVE players want the game changed around their play style with a mode specially made for them.

We just used what we were given and tbh mostly expected.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Jockey79]

PVE players want the game changed around their play style with a mode specially made for them.

Which wouldn't have happened if you'd left them alone in their little group.

You reap what you sow.

 

[Asp Explorer]

We already have a slot, its called Open.

But you don't own Open Many players in Open, you will simply never encounter for a multitude of reasons. Having your own "mode", for lack of a better word, where the PVP pew-pew is advertised and unleashed - don't you think you'd get a lot more blowings up of stuff?

 

[Commander Debic]

snip: As I see this as a valid discussion that needs to be had, particularly in light of where Mobius appears to be heading.

I am not sure where you see Mobius heading tbh. I am fairly sure though that this thread would probably not be if FD had developed the game the way they originally envisaged as regards open play.
This old horse is now on its 3rd iteration and is heading no doubt for its maximum length and so a fourth will no doubt sprout it's ugly head.
You cannot tell me that the Devs and DB are not aware of this hydra of a thread nought, and that they are unaware that it is their lack of action and direction they originally planned on taking, then totally ignored, is what has been directly responsible for its original inception and continuing rebirth

 

[Majinvash]

But you don't own Open Many players in Open, you will simply never encounter for a multitude of reasons. Having your own "mode", for lack of a better word, where the PVP pew-pew is advertised and unleashed - don't you think you'd get a lot more blowings up of stuff?

We have PLENTY of stuff to blow up. Not that that is all we do but for ease of typing. Open is the mode we wanted.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Roybe]

We already have a slot, its called Open.

"Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous’ vast massively multiplayer space."

PVE players want the game changed around their play style with a mode specially made for them.

We just used what we were given and tbh mostly expected.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Although I understand the position of the devs on crime within the game, I also see the PvE players point that it is leading to a problem that keeps the possibility for 'violence' above a lot of players threshold. For many this might be to high on a regular basis, for others it might be on infrequent days. Whichever, the case, PvP players will never see some of these players anyway, and the others infrequently...so a PvE Open mode, if possible, changes nothing for the overall play of the Open mode.


If that threshold is to high and people would abandon the current Open at rates beyond what they are..then maybe there should be an adjustment made in the overall Justice System to 'calm things down'...otherwise, the only thing being forced at this point is the devs ideas over people's comfort level. There is no problem with this. But it would be nice for everyone to know that, just like the Open vs. issue, this is another issue on which players opinions do not matter.

 

[Kerrash]

I do get the distinct impression, that no matter what FDev change; some group would be unhappy.

It seems like the only logical answer is to leave things unchanged.

 

[Commander Debic]

Latest Mobius figures are 15589. I wonder how many the Christmas rush may bring us.

 

[Majinvash]

Although I understand the position of the devs on crime within the game, I also see the PvE players point that it is leading to a problem that keeps the possibility for 'violence' above a lot of players threshold. For many this might be to high on a regular basis, for others it might be on infrequent days. Whichever, the case, PvP players will never see some of these players anyway, and the others infrequently...so a PvE Open mode, if possible, changes nothing for the overall play of the Open mode.


If that threshold is to high and people would abandon the current Open at rates beyond what they are..then maybe there should be an adjustment made in the overall Justice System to 'calm things down'...otherwise, the only thing being forced at this point is the devs ideas over people's comfort level. There is no problem with this. But it would be nice for everyone to know that, just like the Open vs. issue, this is another issue on which players opinions do not matter.

The general broken state of the game play is multitiered.
I would love to be more challenged in this game and have some of the game breaking issues addressed, lets see what Horizons brings.

But that is entirely separate to what this thread is about.

Even if in game crime punishment was tougher, it would still be there. DB wants people to be able to play bad guys. ( Play their way )
PVE players would still want all of the player content of Open with none of the risk from PVP.
Which then brings us back to this thread and a new arc of circular posts.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Jockey79]

Latest Mobius figures are 15589. I wonder how many the Christmas rush may bring us.

What makes me chuckle with that, look at the Mobius forum numbers and Facebook numbers.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Although I understand the position of the devs on crime within the game, …

I don't understand the position of the devs on crime wishing this game. It simply doesn't make any sense for me. I can kill a Federal Navy ship in one system and am clean in a Fed system 2 ly away - that's simply stupid.

It doesn't matter that much if the crime/justice system encourages crime or discourages it - it should make in-game sense.

 

[Commander Debic]

I do get the distinct impression, that no matter what FDev change; some group would be unhappy.

It seems like the only logical answer is to leave things unchanged.

An alternative view is that had FD not changed their original ideas of how open would operate then we would have no need to be discussing changing things now.
But I don't think making like an ostrich and sticking your head in the sand is an answer either.
But it is one thing that FD are particularly adept at.

 

[Kerrash]

True. But I have yet to see an adequately comprehensive answer here either.

 

[Noddie]

My views...

I'd still like it done "in universe". You don't need separate modes when you have so much space. You just need different, variable environments within that space. To be honest you can partially achieve this by simply moving away from busy areas, but that also eliminates friendly player interactions. Which is why I'd like to see some heavily policed, peacefull sections of the bubble.

Make secure and anarchic systems actually actually mean something. If you turn up with a big bounty in a high secure system, or commit an assault in one, it should be death-on-a-stick. However, in Anarchy no effect at all. Weaker systems somewhere between the two.

To be honest. I think Solo only exists because offline became non viable. It's essentially offline, with the universe data online rather than on the hard drive. Perfectly sensible hybrid of both offline and online play, allowing the massive universe whilst also maintaining privacy.

Open is probably what it was always intended to be (multiplayer), which would be why it doesn't protect players that much.

 

[DaveB]

PVE players want the game changed around their play style with a mode specially made for them.

Actually, there's more of them happily playing in a private group than regularly posting in this thread or any other on the subject so that's questionable.

Dedicated PvE players have a place where they can play, so do dedicated PvP players. Others enjoy the ability to choose according to their mood. ED currently caters to us all equally.

In fact, since open is just another group, simply one that the matchmaking logic regards as the default, as far as I'm concerned the best solution to satisfy both those in favor of the status quo and those that want a PvE mode that the game itself enforces, rather than a group owner having to boot from the group folks that violate its "rules", is to have a game-enforced PvE group setting that can be set on a group by group basis. With that in place Mobius wouldn't have to manage the group, he could have just set that flag and made it open join. Other groups would find it useful too, there are RP-based groups out there that allow PvP, there are others that don't. It could even be settable to multiple levels "Pure PvE"/"PvP only when opposite sides chosen in an active CZ"/"PvP always enabled" (the default)