Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Mohrgan]

You can try explaining all the people who left open because of being attacked, that their losses were due to inexistant risks. That they were playing under a riskless falacy and that they were as safe in open as they will be now in solo. I think there's one thread about it today, precisely.
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You can try explaining that explorer that he is perfectly safe in open mode... Why should he change to solo mode when returning from the void with millions of credits in exploration data, and a 20% canopy integrity? After all, there's no more risk trying to reach Li-Yong's territory in open than it would be in solo, isn't? He only has to avoid the hot-spots (which are marked on the map, right?) and that's all!, Perfectly safe!. What could possibly go wrong?
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Also, explain all those people that losing their ship/cargo was only due to their own incompetence, for not knowing how to pilot their ships, because their human attackers obviously weren't any risk at all, giving how easy is to escape them with some basic maneuvers, and how bad the instancing system works.
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Ah no, open mode is perfectly safe for everyone, and there is no risk at all. That's why I went solo mode, of course. Not because I was/could be attacked in open, no, because it is perfectly safe, just because I don't want to see other players and because I like to bask in my lonelyness... Play my way, sure, no other reasons.
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Ops! what's that noise? DAMMMMMIT!!!, Stranded in the void without fuel again!!!.... GO GO!!! Fuel Rats!! GO!!!!... See? I like to play in open too!

Well, you have demonstrated a working knowledge of sarcasm. To try and explain.... Most of the 'I'm moving out of open' threads have stopped, only to be replaced by 'where is everyone?' threads. When the game released and no one knew better there were many unsuspecting players introduced to what open could entail. Starter systems full of victims have now given way to barren systems. This is the fuel that players use to keep the 'open has more risk' notion running. It has since gone.

The Explorer choosing to be in solo, even just during the return trip is a function of the value of their data. With the prevalence of the 'open has more risk' notion the player just says why take the chance. just because they feel, and act that way, doesn't mean it is so. Behaving like there is more risk, does not mean there is more risk. It's just that a player goes out their way to protect that kind of time investment. Weeks or months of data can be lost to one encounter, why take even a perceived risk?

Poor play, is poor play. That loss could have come from an NPC if the player is 'incompetent'. Heck, you hear more about people loosing their stuff to station issues more than you hear about pirates these days. An incompetent player in open is more at risk entering/exiting the mail slot than in some non-starting system carting fish through any random system.

Evidence of people reacting to a 'perceived risk' does not make the risk real.

 

[Cody]

Fdev recently made it clear they like the way it is now and every poll I have seen is indicative that the majority of the player base is happy the way it is now, why aren't these threads simply closed?

<grins> Think of it as a sump!

 

[StarTux]

<grins> Think of it as a sump!

Hahaha true .

 

[OldSalt]

One question.

Fdev recently made it clear they like the way it is now and every poll I have seen is indicative that the majority of the player base is happy the way it is now, why aren't these threads simply closed?

Seems like a total waste of time imho.

Well Nija'd here but it's a cess pit that gets emptied every now and again where all the 'constructive criticism' of one of the most well publicised from the start and consistently developer supported features of the game comes to die.

 

[EdzUp]

What you are referring to is a lack of consequences for players who attack other players - it's not specifically related to the game modes.

Erm yes it does after all people playing in a private group know the people who are in the group so there is a much lower risk of idiots blowing away each other as they know them. Solo basically is a single player game so no risk of players attacking you there.

Open on the other hand is a free for all total risk, everyone can see each other and attack them this is why the greater risk needs greater rewards after all if for example:
1) Transporting rares from Leesti to Eravate in Open could get attacked by everyone and anyone who wanted to in Open. In a group there is a much lower risk as everyone is knows. Solo its just you and some easy to kill NPC's
2) flying around anywhere in the habitable zone has a greater risk of attack in open

Greater risk means greater chance of the rebuy screen with greater risk needs greater reward to balance it out or all you will do is drive people to group or solo to compensate for all the rebuys.

Significantly increased consequences for those who choose to destroy new players in ships inferior to theirs are a necessity, in my opinion - sadly they do not exist in the game.

Regarding cheats - please report them using the appropriate method, with video evidence if possible, along with time, date and location of the incident(s).

Its about time FDEV implemented a fugitive status that could be tacked onto players (not ships to stop the sidewinder cheat) this would make players have to think about their actions. Personally ALL bounties should be player specific not ship this would mean players would have to really think about everything rather than just jumping into a sidey and smashing into the side of a station.

 

[relayer]

I want viable piracy against npc's Damn it!

This is a good point brought up in other posts. I assumed NPCs would have random cargo comparable to players. However, as it stands now reminds me of Diablo, where top Hell mode bosses were just as likely to throw (useless) Cracked Swords as anything even approaching their level. There was loud hue & cry about that... but the treasure classes never got any better.

From another angle, big NPC trade ships (T-series) are just as likely to be running commodities like grain or medical supplies as "tasty" loot because the greater share of commodity trading profits by bulk, not necessarily cargo "quality." So how would a pirate like it if the loot was... 436 Hydrogen or Biowaste?

 

[Jockey79]

One question.

Fdev recently made it clear they like the way it is now and every poll I have seen is indicative that the majority of the player base is happy the way it is now, why aren't these threads simply closed?

Seems like a total waste of time imho.

You are right, it is a waste of time.

However, some folks think they are smart and rephrase the topic, starting the whole "debate" over again.
And this is just easy for the mods to keep track of. So when someone thinks they are out smarting the mods, the mods can just laugh and merge it here out of the way.

It keeps the main forum tidy is the other reason.

 

[Mouse]

Erm yes it does after all people playing in a private group know the people who are in the group so there is a much lower risk of idiots blowing away each other as they know them. Solo basically is a single player game so no risk of players attacking you there.

Open on the other hand is a free for all total risk, everyone can see each other and attack them this is why the greater risk needs greater rewards after all if for example:
1) Transporting rares from Leesti to Eravate in Open could get attacked by everyone and anyone who wanted to in Open. In a group there is a much lower risk as everyone is knows. Solo its just you and some easy to kill NPC's
2) flying around anywhere in the habitable zone has a greater risk of attack in open

Greater risk means greater chance of the rebuy screen with greater risk needs greater reward to balance it out or all you will do is drive people to group or solo to compensate for all the rebuys.


Its about time FDEV implemented a fugitive status that could be tacked onto players (not ships to stop the sidewinder cheat) this would make players have to think about their actions. Personally ALL bounties should be player specific not ship this would mean players would have to really think about everything rather than just jumping into a sidey and smashing into the side of a station.

I completely and absolutely disagree your entire arguement is that you want greater reward for playing with others vs playing by yourself. There is no greater or lower risk and to say there is, is an utterly false arguement. And this is what is so infuriating. You make a choice then demand others pander to you and give you more rewards because you chose to play a certain way. You are trying to go around FD's "There is no right way to play" and make it "Hey if you come to open than you get more rewards, this is the way the game was ment to play." And that is utter crap. The modes are all equal, you made your choice, quit demanding others pander to you because of it.

 

[relayer]

Well I don't. Open affect the BGS, Solo affect the BGS, Groups affect the BGS, everyone affect the BGS ! So where does this grievance comes from ? The most valid solution to what ?

Mostly, from what I read, there is a segment of players who "duck/hide in solo" when "things get hot." There's another segment complaining about that, even though it is much more a player problem than a mode problem.

I also see a lot of the "all in open/separate modes" posters saying that they themselves have "dipped into solo just to get X done" and similar. This confuses things more, as I can't reconcile "solo bad" with "I've ducked into it..."

Again, we are back at a player problem, not a mode problem.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

I'll try, briefly to soften my stance and ask a more practical question:
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What activities in Open should attract a greater reward and how much differential? 5%, 10%, 25%?
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If a player in Open gets a prime RES to themselves for the whole of their play session, is it fair they get a 25% bonus on bounties because "another CMDR might have come along and slowed them down or actively obstructed them"?
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If a trader in a T9 or Conda finds a good trade route on the edge of the bubble and plies their cargo back and forth for several hours, are they entitled to danger money?"
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If an explorer is in Open when they sell their data, do they get a bonus? If so, did they have to be in Open for each scan?
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If a CMDR is in Open and the first time they even see another CMDR on the scanner, they log off, cycle modes and log back in to another CMDR-less instance, are they earning danger money?
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If a CMDR sits around their PP homeworld waiting to interdict aggressor PP CMDRs and spends several hours seeing nobody, do they get free merits to counter the x-per hour they could have gained grinding in solo?
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It is a huge task to try and objectively quantify any increase in risk players may be subjected to, or feel they are subjected to whilst playing in Open. Each of the above facets may be a different number and qualify for a different adjustment. Does a CMDR in a lowly T6 expose themselves to more risk than a well shielded 400t armed trader Conda?
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Considering that players on these forums can barely agree on what day it is, or which PP weapon is the worst... I can only imagine the balancing issues that would surround any attempt by FDev to introduce any kind of mode differentials?

 

[stripealipe]

Stop having an influence on me when i can't see you. It's like some invisible thief skulking around my home and stealing from me under my feet with no repercussions.

 

[NathanM]

I roll a dice every morning and if I get a 6 I dont sell my rare goods on reaching a station 200 LY from where I bought them, I jetson them instead. This means I take more risk and should therefore be given more rewared - GIEF REWARD.

Risking the loss of something is not impressive or worthy of reward, doing more to get it in the first place, that should be the focus of this discussion.

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No its not, he cant influence you when he's in solo either. He's skulking arround his home not stealing from anyone which is, well, freakin normal and why the hell should you try and stop him doing that?

 

[Marak]

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One doctor can enjoy saving patients in his private clinic. Other doctor can enjoy saving patients on a civil-war african battlefield. But if the second doctor asks for a bit more payment or recognition, very bad for him... Because his reward should be the 'excitement of dodging bullets'... After all, it is what he chose,right?.
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Could you ask your doctor friend what he'd say if he was given the option not to be shot at while doing his job? (or doing what he enjoys... )

 

[Mouse]

Stop having an influence on me when i can't see you. It's like some invisible thief skulking around my home and stealing from me under my feet with no repercussions.

No one has an invisible influence on you what so ever. Everyone though has an influence on the universe. Your complaint is the same as going to shop online and getting the error that the last one sold and complaining that since you were looking at the item that it should lock everyone else from being able to buy it until you made your decision.

 

[Jockey79]

Stop having an influence on me when i can't see you. It's like some invisible thief skulking around my home and stealing from me under my feet with no repercussions.

Dude, I have boundless respect for you. You are the only person to interdict me in Open and our exchange was amazing.
If every pirate in open behaved like you, I'd never ever use any other mode.

That being said, the game has sold over 600,000 copies. Each instance can only hold - at best, 32 players.
So if everyone was made to play open - what about all those players in other instances you are never going to meet?
They have the same impact on the game as you, they are as important as you - but you'll never see them, or interact with them - so are they worth less? or are you worth less as you cannot interact with them?

 

[relayer]

If open players face no more risk tan solo players, why people click on the 'Solo button' in first place?

Can only speak for myself... Elite/84 was a solitary experience; you alone in a indifferent-if-not-hostile universe; that is, solo mode.
I enjoy meditating on the galaxy (amateur astronomy buff), locating planets & systems famous in science fiction literature & flying and configuring my ships.

I don't want to meet people; I have other media for that. I have no intention to participate in PowerPlay. CGs mostly I ignore, although I did 2 in open because I thought you had to do them there; I also did them to benefit the community as a whole, which is what they do.


As far as facing risk, last night I was interdic't by a wing of three Expert Vipers followed by a interdiction by an Expert Python. None of them was easy, nor were they safe; I barely won in the Python contest; shields downed and 40% hull left. The Minions are getting smarter.

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The "more risk" argument has been largely rebutted - there is only more risk when a player is instanced with players who oppose them - that is not the case for all players in Open at all times.

This point gets ignored or bypassed many times in this discussion.

 

[relayer]

<snip>

but surely somewhere along the line X kills on innocent players should net you a fugitive status that cannot be paid off and is attached to the player. Yes it may seem unfair to them but killing X innocent players isn't fair either.

<snip>

This solution/point has been raised before in this thread. I, for one, think it's fairly realistic. Others have proposed that a "sticky" bounty should either get doubled with each murder or the commander in question be prevented from logging in for perhaps a week; they'd still retain the bounty that would need to be paid off. There have been other worthwhile proposals around this idea.

 

[Jockey79]

If open players face no more risk tan solo players, why people click on the 'Solo button' in first place? Shouldn't the open be as safe as Solo? Then, Why do we have daily threads about people fleeing in tears to solo?
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Don't try to revert the argument, dropping all the burden on Open players. As stated in my previous post, even FD required 100% Open mode for their contest. For a reason. SOLO-OPEN modes have an inherent difference, otherwise, this debate wouldn't even exist.
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Edit: And as answer to your question, Players in open should get a reward for choosing a game mode that is inherently more risky/difficult to play. It is the same as choosing between 2 different missions. The most difficult one should have better reward, right? The player still has the choice, but if it takes more risk, it should be properly rewarded.
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And even considering that the difference in risk between Open-Solo is not very high, then it would only determine that the extra reward also should not be very high... But the extra reward must exist nevertheless.
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One CMDR could only get its '1st triple elite' by playing 100% Open. Other commanders that play in open also want to have the same recognition/acknowlegdment for their extra efforts. As easy as that.

We have "daily threads" about people getting killed in open because some people are idiots.
It really is as simple as that. Some people buy games without knowing what they are, or what to do in them - then they mess up, and blame everyone else for their mistakes.
Very few own up to the fact, they messed up. They go to the forums of the game, and complain and whine that the game is "broken" because they didn't understand it.

Also, as you don't understand it - players in open, pick open because they want to see other players.
Players in solo, pick solo, because they do not want to see other players.

Apart from that - the game, IS THE SAME!

 

[relayer]

<snip>

Credit gain is important, I'm not going to refute that. But the cr/h mentality is generally toxic to gameplay if it's the priority.

I just don't get this approach either. Credits-per-hour? I have a job, thanks, and it pays a lot more than ED. I see this so many times though... ugh, what an orientation for a game.

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Significantly increased consequences for those who choose to destroy new players in ships inferior to theirs are a necessity, in my opinion - sadly they do not exist in the game.

This is the crux of the real argument; agree 100% but am out of rep so, +5 virtualRep

 

[relayer]

Other doctor can enjoy saving patients on a civil-war african battlefield.


ninja'd by Tuub t Tute