Debatable.
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Debatable.
It's all part of the game, for me - and it was my favorite part. That feeling that any human player could try to interdict you, attack you - and likewise, going after people in enemy factions yourself. Trying to get "consensual" PVP requires much more time to set up, make sure the instancing works, etc. - obviously it's great, too - but more waiting than actually fighting.
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Oh, so Open players are "dumb" now? The ad hominem continues!
I wouldn't call player killing griefing, usually when I think griefing I think, ramming/ nfz killing or repeated harassment, which can include killing. Single episodes of killing aren't enough to warrant the griefer tag imo.
But to answer your question op, I don't know of anyone who has gotten banned for griefing, player killing or otherwise.
But to answer your question op, I don't know of anyone who has gotten banned for griefing, player killing or otherwise.
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I <3 Jenner
As if anyone in an FdL/Python/Clipper ever interdicted a cobra/viper/asp/adder/trader for the fight....please. Lets not even get started on wings of 4 going after a single commander, there is no more challenge or difficulty in that fight than there is in fighting an NPC, the enjoyment comes purely from knowing you disrupted another persons game experience, getting jumped with no reasonable possibility of escape or ability to fight back isn't an adrenaline rush, it's disheartening, and that is the point, and that is griefing.
Perhaps when flying a cobby, avoiding the wings of FDLs might be a good idea. The trouble is people think they have a right to pass unmolested through any system they want. This is the wild west, the law is the guy with the biggest gun. If you attempt to mosey on by and hope they dont interdict you, well, that sounds like it's your fault. You're supposed to be a pilot, so pilot.
That's a fair point, but then, I would just call it harassment. Depending on the frequency and severity of that, I think some people should be put in the naughty corner for it.
You can't expect perfectly symmetrical combat all of the time. And even in the most drastic cases - it's all part of the game for me - whether I'm an aggressor or I'm being attacked by overwhelming forces (which definitely happened quite often, and I enjoyed the planning involved). It all makes the game more interesting to me.
What I can't get is why people keep saying open is so much harder than solo and pretend that they are some kinda tough guys because they play in open. Yeah...tough guys...right...tough guys on computers. Once you get a good enough ship and learn the ropes, it's no harder than solo. And by learning the ropes, I mean learning to play "Spot The Loony"...
Here's the problem though, it just isn't worth it, it isn't worth the time of high waking away to come back to supercruise to see a wing coming up on your tail as you slow into the station so you high wake out, blah blah blah, so people go to solo/group.
I don't have a problem with someone going after a pilot of an opposing power or an opposing faction or whatever (it is pathetic if you horribly out class them though), I have no problem with someone interdicting me in my T7 and demanding cargo, I do have a problem with a group of individuals harassing me (killing a trader because they can, taking cargo and killing you because they can, killing you because they outnumber you, camping to do any of these things) because they want to harass me, that is after all, harassment, which in the game world is commonly referred to as griefing. The almost complete lack of an in game criminal status makes this a consequence free action, so in the end the only consequence will be an empty open world. An attitude of "I do it because I can, without regard for if I should." will only end in being left alone, not out of weakness or fear on the part of the "victim", just out of common sense.
I see all this "wild west" and "high seas" talk all the time, if the wild west were anything near what ED is, it'd still be uninhabited, because everyone would have been killed or gone away.
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If this community was more close-knit, then we can kind of expect the community to govern itself. But nope, just one mention of Open vs Solo and the two sides are ready to chew the throat of one another open.
FD not saying anything about what is considered grieving makes things worse.
Open is harder, sure. Are Open players "tougher" than solo/groups players? Well, obviously no one can say that. The "best" pilot could be in solo/groups right now for all we know - it's just that no human players would have faced him/her.What I can't get is why people keep saying open is so much harder than solo and pretend that they are some kinda tough guys because they play in open. Yeah...tough guys...right...tough guys on computers. Once you get a good enough ship and learn the ropes, it's no harder than solo. And by learning the ropes, I mean learning to play "Spot The Loony"...
I agree, but the in game mechanics to govern and balance pirates/bounty hunters/traders and crime/criminal status are sorely lacking. As it is now a bounty hunter who inadvertently grazes a cop(who likely flew into it) with a laser, gaining a 200Cr bounty, is much more punished by the in game crime system than a pirate caught pirating, after all the pirate will just shoot the cop that happened upon them, he's already wanted and is after all, a criminal and it's easy to get away from that big bad eagle. The bounty hunter meanwhile doesn't want a longer duration bounty on his head for what is arguably self defense, likely has 10 other cops bearing down on him in the RES and now has to get out of mass lock under heavy fire from a bunch of AI that couldn't hit the broad side of a moon before but now pelt his small, agile vulture with the pinpoint accuracy of the best human marksman in the game before he can wait for his timer to tick down. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
FDs neutral stance makes it an extremely divisive issue. I think if players could look at open and know what was allowed and what wasn't and feel like they could expect a reasonable amount of humane, or at least in character behavior (being a "psycho" is bull and everyone knows it), you'd see a lot more people willing to put it on the line in open. It is the idea that "anything" is acceptable, and a lot of people look at that and think, well okay, but "anything?", that puts a lot of people off, because what would turn their stomach to think of doing to disrupt another player is exactly what they may have happen to them and that's an emotionally taxing thing for some people, so they go to solo/group.
I think having any official, clear definition would go a long way to helping people feel more comfortable with the system.
Personally I haven't run into any content in solo that I couldn't tackle with a viper. A viper is a combat ships yes but hardly the top of the food chain. I go into combat zones with a viper and am pretty much unchallenged so yes you can say solo mode is a tad on the easy side.
I find player interaction adds the most "fun factor" to games be it partnering up to accomplish a tough mission or helping a new player learn a game. I am not a big PVP'er but the threat of being able to be killed at any moment and how I have to play smarter or sneakier adds to the realism and makes most games more interesting. There are games like Ark Survival and H1Z1 that I have been driven away from because the PVP and base raiding is so prevalent and there is nothing you can do about it. Ark survival I played for a month and every day was like day one restart because my base was raided and everything was destroyed or stolen . There can be too much PVP but Frontier has a pretty big game map, I think the biggest ever so moving to a less populated system and gearing up until your ready to enter the more hostile player populated areas is a very real option . I would bet money that with a little effort a player could play in open for a very long time without ever running into another player. I very rarely run in to another player and I run the most profitable trade routed I can find on the third party trading tools so I know those areas have to be popular, at least I would think they would be anyways.
They need to work on the content though so there is content so difficult it is impossible to do solo. Right now there is little reason to team up or play coop as there is nothing that is challenging enough to require it.
Even worse, I have a good friend that I game with. We have moved from game to game together for years. We try and play ED together and it is actually difficult to play together. You can't really explore together, I guess you can do mining in the same area but it isn't really cooperative. You can bounty hunt or go into conflict zones so that is what we do. In the middle of battle suddenly I am out of the wing or he is out of the wing randomly and we have to both relog to wing it up again and this happens very frequently. So it is actually difficult to play this "MMO" with another player!
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I think it was Einstein who said that madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It's a big galaxy Commander, I encourage you to come meet us. Just for the record, though I enjoy PVP and player interaction, I have never killed a human. Been killed by a few. I respect everyone's right to play however they want, but it is getting very tedious that anytime someone mentions PVP or OPenVsSolo we get the same people turning up to try and encourage people away from Open, usually by exaggerating any perceived griefing. Very tiresome now.
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